Another Bike Rack Idea

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, Susan Huff said:

Tiedown tracks?  I don't understand what you are saying.  

Sorry, sometimes I assume everybody knows what then heck I am talking about. I apologize. I meant an adjustable  ring tiedown rail, which is what aircraft have for securing cargo so it won't shift. Some truck and car manufacturers offer this for bed storage.  You can change the position of the anchor point in seconds with no tools, and good quality ones have a very high load rating, up to 1000 pounds per anchor.

I really like these: ..., http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/VersaTie-Track

Here is a short section which I added to my Ollie cargo rack (old style), which I moved to the back of the trailer.:

And here is a fixed mount, it works the same as the track but has only the one position.  I have also added these inside the closet to secure my ladder and chairs.
 

Note the fully welded stainless ring. It is much stronger and will not fail like a common weak eyebolt which is simply bent into a circle, but not welded. I hope that helps.
 

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by John E Davies

[Ray and Susan Huff]

17 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Sorry, sometimes I assume everybody knows what then heck I am talking about. I apologize. I meant an adjustable  ring tiedown rail, which is what aircraft have for securing cargo so it won't shift. Some truck and car manufacturers offer this for bed storage.  You can change the position of the anchor point in seconds with no tools, and good quality ones have a very high load rating, up to 2000 pounds per anchor.

I really like these: ..., http://www.macscustomtiedowns.com/category/VersaTie-Track

Here is a short section added to my Ollie cargo rack (old style).

And here is a fixed mount, it works the same as the track but has only the one position.  I have also added these inside the closet to secure my ladder and chairs.
 

Note the fully welded stainless ring. It is much stronger and will not fail like a common Weak eyebolt which is simply bent into a circle, but not welded. I hope that helps.
 

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

I guess you are talking about straps for the bike rack?  Not sure why they are needed.   Maybe you are talking about the platform mounted 1UP trays, rather than receiver mounted?  At any rate, I would hesitate to do modifications to an expensive rack that is engineered to be safe on the back of an RV, such as mounting it to a platform.  It should be attached, as it was designed, to a 2"receiver.   Besides in attaching it to the rear of an Oliver, there would be much less bounce than when mounted to a motorhome receiver that is much further from the rear axle.  How hard can it be to build the same design Oliver is using, but with a 2" receiver?  I still haven't heard anyone comment on the ground clearance from the lowest point of the 1UP rack with the receiver built under the bumper as shown in the OP.  If I remember correctly, the bottom of the 1UP rack isn't much lower than the bottom of the hitch.  From the specs I'd say an inch or two, at most?  @2pedallers can you confirm?

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Susan Huff

[John E Davies]

The tie downs are probably not needed with a 1 Up rack but they are definitely needed with most other brands of bike racks. The tracks would offer multiple locations for straps, so you don’t have to hook them around the bumper or frame.

The actual clearance from the ground of the low receiver Is less important than the fact that the trailer’s “departure angle” is drastically reduced. I guarantee that the low slung mount will be a big problem on rough uneven forest roads. Simply because the angle for the stock LEII is already marginal.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by John E Davies

[topgun2]

This “departure angle” issue not only applies to "rough uneven forest roads".  Particularly in the Western States roads are built with fairly deep gutters for rain and snow.  These can pose a "departure angle" problem when pulling into and out of gas stations, grocery stores, laundromats, etc.  Particularly when one is in a hurry due to traffic considerations.  And, due to the fact that these are not dirt roads, the damage done can be much more severe.

Bill

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Just received this from Jason at Oliver regarding our 1UP 2-try bike rack loaded with two Specialized bikes.  (Bike rack weighs 50#; bikes approx 35# each)

"It weighs too much for our recommended specs" (100#) "I hate to say that because I’m 230lbs and can dance on the rack, but that’s what we have the rack rated for. It is 5/8 inch aluminum"

100# is pretty useless.  Moot point, anyway, since their bumper receiver is 1 1/4".  I guess we'll be looking at other options for carrying our bikes  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Sorry . . . . . . Duplicate post

Edited June 8, 2020 by Susan Huff
Duplicate post

[OCJohn]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:15 PM, John E Davies said:

Simply put, it is not. An LEII will occasionally drag the frame...

Related but tertiary question: has anyone used rollers on the backend of an Ollie? I get that they've got more clearance and a shorter moment than the giant Class-As and 5th wheels that really need them. But if scaping is already a thing, maybe rollers provide a solution to existing And bike receiver clearance issues...

Just thinking out loud.

Edited June 9, 2020 by OCJohn

[Ray and Susan Huff]

10 hours ago, OCJohn said:

Related but tertiary question: has anyone used rollers on the backend of an Ollie? I get that they've got more clearance and a shorter moment than the giant Class-As and 5th wheels that really need them. But if scaping is already a thing, maybe rollers provide a solution to existing And bike receiver clearance issues...

Just thinking out loud.

Thanks for asking this question.  We put these "skid wheels" on the back of our B+ motor home, mostly to protect the macerator pump located at the driver's side rear of the chassis, its lowest point.  We also carry bikes on a 1UP receiver rack.  Only once did the wheels do their job, as we drove onto the street from a steep approach.  Glad we had them.  The Oliver rear axle is much closer to the rear of the trailer than the rear axle is from the rear of the motorhome, so it should navigate a steeper approach.  Perhaps someone with an engineering mind has done an analysis of the geometry of the Oliver to determine its "drag threshold".  I found this: (basic Pythagorean theorem), but don't have an Oliver to apply it.  For sure, the shorter the distance from the rear axle to the lowest point on the rear of the chassis (bumper, bike rack, etc) the steeper the angle of approach/departure will be.  Would the distance from the hitch point to the rear axle also figure into the equation?  And the approach angle would be reduced by the angle of the junction between the approach and the road?   

In the real world, we are not going to get out our calculator and transit, to evaluate the situation, but an estimate, based on the Oliver's metrics, would be helpful.  

Sorry if I've bored you all 😇

[John E Davies]

The theoretical angle calculations for a self contained RV are far different than for a trailer being towed, where you can have a situation where the tow vehicle front axle will drop down into a deep depression or rut,  forcing the tongue of the trailer upwards, and this is all going on independently from what is happening back at the trailer wheels.  The real worry is not smaller holes or drop offs, but protruding rocks or ledges that can’t be avoided. The variables are so many that I don’t think these angles are useful numbers. For a single vehicle like a Jeep, they certainly are important - dragging expensive hard parts over fixed pointy rocks is to be avoided as much as possible!

Rollers can work great on smooth pavement if properly located and with proper (really strong) mounts, but on an unpaved forest road they will just dig trenches or get completely stuck, and not do anything at all to protect the frame or a low hitch. They are a band aid fix at best, ideally you raise the frame higher by altering the suspension so that dragging simply won’t occur. Or buy something other than a LE2

If somebody wants to do a project and add rollers, these are my choice, welded to stout steel plates in the back corners, bolted to the frame rails. They are plenty strong and hopefully won’t be a nuisance by hanging down too much. The roller brackets are just 2.375” high...... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071RVYCSK/?coliid=I1A99Z99XZLVXI&colid=1X5H11EH41351&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited June 9, 2020 by John E Davies

[Ray and Susan Huff]

I see what you're saying about the many factors involved in the trailer geometry.  Where the motorhome structure is fixed, the hitch point creates variables.  Likewise, I suppose the wheelbase of the tow vehicle would also factor in.  All things considered and being an accountant, I understand the "It depends" concept well 😁

Regarding your suggestion of roller wheels, I like the aesthetics of the wheel, but can steel be successfully welded to aluminum?

[John E Davies]

19 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

Regarding your suggestion of roller wheels, I like the aesthetics of the wheel, but can steel be successfully welded to aluminum?

No, not in this world. You weld the roller bracket to a suitable steel plate, and then bolt the plate to the frame, taking suitable precautions against corrosion due to the dissimilar metals. It is something any decent welding shop could do, tho I wouldn’t trust just any old shop to install it correctly.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ray and Susan Huff]

47 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

No, not in this world. You weld the roller bracket to a suitable steel plate, and then bolt the plate to the frame, taking suitable precautions against corrosion due to the dissimilar metals. It is something any decent welding shop could do, tho I wouldn’t trust just any old shop to install it correctly.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks . . . . . that's the answer I expected.

Our son is a more than decent welder!  I'm hoping he can help with the bike rack conundrum as well. Perhaps these two components - drag wheels and 2" receiver could be incorporated into one plate and bolted to the frame?  Is the bumper integrated with the frame (does the frame extend under the bumper)?

Sorry, for all the questions 😁

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, Susan Huff said:

Our son is a more than decent welder!  I'm hoping he can help with the bike rack conundrum as well. Perhaps these two components - drag wheels and 2" receiver could be incorporated into one plate and bolted to the frame?  Is the bumper integrated with the frame (does the frame extend under the bumper)?

Sorry, for all the questions 😁

No worries, we live for questions....

The bumper drops down for access to the sewer compartment, so no, it cannot be solidly integrated with the frame. The bumper is a chunky 1/4" thick rectangular beam with huge pivot bolt at each end. The part that actually drags the ground is the rear cross support for the floor in that sewer compartment. Here are a couple of pics. Show them to your son and he could advise you.

 

 

And this is what is in front of the bumper:

 

 

If I were to do this, I would make a steel bracket that wraps around both sides of the frame (a flat bottomed U shape) and install it where it says "Main Frame Member" in the second pic. That cross channel is 1" high, so the roller would extend down about 2 inches below it and offer decent protection and also be very strong, being attached directly to that massive frame member. The compartment cover must be able to be removed for access to the water tanks, so it must be trimmed away to clear any roller brackets

If you get an Oille and install rollers, please post a thread about it with pics and dimensions. Maybe your son could offer these for sale as an owner installed kit. A welder for a son, I wish I had one 😉

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited June 9, 2020 by John E Davies

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Just had a message from Jordan.  Oliver has increased the weight capacity of the optional rear receiver hitch to 150#.  No 2" receiver at this time.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Susan Huff
Additional info

[Patriot]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:39 PM, Susan Huff said:

Just had a message from Jordan.  Oliver has increased the weight capacity of the optional rear receiver hitch to 150#.  No 2" receiver at this time.

Good to hear. Now the only thing needed is a 2” receiver to accommodate the 1up bike rack. 
Here is a rack we may consider -

https://www.1up-usa.com/product/2in-super-duty-double-bike-rack/

Edited June 14, 2020 by Patriot

[Ray and Susan Huff]

Just now, Patriot said:

Good to hear. Now the only thing needed is a 2” receiver to accommodate the 1up bike rack. 

1Up sells an adapter. 

 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/1-25-2-hitch-expander/

Will add a few pounds to the load, maybe 5.  

[Patriot]

18 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

1Up sells an adapter. 

 https://www.1up-usa.com/product/1-25-2-hitch-expander/

Will add a few pounds to the load, maybe 5.  

This is good info, Thank you. 

edit-  before ordering I will have to call and understand from 1upUSA  if using the 1.25 hitch expander/extension on a Travel Trailer is considered completely safe with their 1up super dutY (2)bike rack if staying within 150#  limit.
The hitch expander changes the dynamics of the rack. For liability reasons USA 1up would have to state and fully back in writing both products are approved and tested for Travel Trailer use. Just risk adverse here.

I will shoot them an email and ask at some point before ordering. 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Patriot

[Ray and Susan Huff]

8 minutes ago, Patriot said:

This is very good info, Thank you. 

 

8 minutes ago, Patriot said:

This is very good info, Thank you. 

I'm excited about being able to use our 1UP rather than having to haul bikes in the pickup.  And the fact that it's an expensive rack to not be used :)

[Overland]

You’ll get a lot more movement of the rack with an adapter though.  Not the end of the world, but it won’t be as solid as you’re used to with the 1up by itself,

[Patriot]

1 hour ago, Overland said:

You’ll get a lot more movement of the rack with an adapter though.  Not the end of the world, but it won’t be as solid as you’re used to with the 1up by itself,

Yes, that’s what I was thinking. As long as 1upUSA fully endorses the adapter approval for use with a TT  in writing, we may consider it. 

[mossemi]

I would suggest that you obtain the dimensions of the Ollie receiver before buying the 1UP 1.25"x 2" adapter.  It does not look like the anti-rattle locking pin is long enough to work with the Ollie receiver and I’m sure that is a fair percentage of the $68.  
This is a quick Amazon search.

Mossey

[Ray and Susan Huff]

1 hour ago, Overland said:

You’ll get a lot more movement of the rack with an adapter though.  Not the end of the world, but it won’t be as solid as you’re used to with the 1up by itself,

Using our 1UP on our van, we have to use a hitch extender because the van receiver is recessed into the bumper,  It appears the 1 1/4" to 2" expander is 1" shorter than the extender, which we had to install at it's maximum length.  We've had no problem with rack movement, despite the long distance from the rear axel.

I know they approved the use of the extender, but I will check if this applies to the expander.

Thanks for your input

[Ray and Susan Huff]

2 minutes ago, mossemi said:

I would suggest that you obtain the dimensions of the Ollie receiver before buying the 1UP 1.25"x 2" adapter.  It does not look like the anti-rattle locking pin is long enough to work with the Ollie receiver and I’m sure that is a fair percentage of the $68.  
This is a quick Amazon search.

Mossey

Thanks . . . . I will check this out.  So many variables . . . . . . 

[mossemi]

Or maybe the anti-rattle locking pin is for the bike rack to adapter connection and not for the adapter to Ollie connection.  The 1UP link you posted was short on details.

Good luck,

Mossey

[Overland]

Off topic, but we had a bike rack on our X5 that had an anti-rattle gizmo built into it.  When it came time to sell it after we got our truck, the anti-rattle thing had broken and so the retaining bolt just spun, which meant there was no way to get the rack off without a lot of cutting and drilling, So of course I included the rack with the X5 as a 'bonus'.  Funny thing is that the people who own it now live in the neighborhood so I still see it every now and then - bike rack still attached.