Snow Chain Advice? Anyone use them? Split from another topic

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:45 PM, John E Davies said:

I agree with BackofBeyond and Bill. Worrying and fretting makes you generate stomach acid, but it primarily wrecks the pleasure of a road trip. Most system failures that an RV shop would have to fix can be deferred until you get home - just do without. The furnace, not so much in December. Bring a small 120 volt AC box heater. The number of things that can fail and strand you is actually very small, mostly a blown tire, a blown bearing or a binding brake due to a grease seal failure. (If a brake gets contaminated with grease, it locks up; the only remedy is complete replacement of both brakes on that axle.) All these problems can be fixed quickly at any small town full service auto or tire store. You can find replacement fuses anywhere, but having spares is a good idea. Buy a trailer TPMS kit, if you haven’t already, and set it up the first night after delivery. That way you won’t keep fretting about the trailer tires and bearings.

Be prepared, if needed, to camp in parking lots like Walmart, Cracker Barrel and Cabelas. Make sure your insurance has towing coverage of at least 100 miles. 
 

Bring lightweight snow cables for one axle of the trailer. The odds of needing them are slim but OTH you could get caught by an unexpected storm before you can settle down for a couple of nights. Most likely just having them in the truck will be enough to prevent having to use them 😀 You most definitely need heavy duty ones for your truck.

Are you a Harvest Host member? Their “hosts” are great just in case alternatives to commercial or park campgrounds. Being farms, wineries, museums, etc, they would welcome an off-season camper and would probably have space for you... Just be sure to buy some stuff or go into the museum, or whatever. There is no camping fee, but you are expected to help them a little financially. That can get expensive, but less than a KOA if you are careful, otherwise you may end up thinking “where the heck do I put all this mead?” (HH breweries are a financial disaster for us.....) There are a bunch of Hosts along your route.....

You may encounter places where your cell coverage is poor or non-existent. It is best to have two phones with different carriers, or, better yet, a gps rescue device so you can notify a relative of your exact location and what service you need, or even notify 911 directly in a disaster such as a heart attack. I really like my inReach. It works anywhere, even from inside the hull, and I can send unlimited free “I’m OK” messages and other prerecorded texts to my kids. It provides great peace of mind at both ends of the communication chain, which is what you are after, correct?

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

Thanks, John!  

I always like to hear from someone who believes in being prepared.  And I agree, many repairs can be deferred - Which brings up a question: if you have a toilet failure (water supply or flush valve, perhaps) can you still open the "bowl dump" and flush with a bucket of water?  Inquiring minds need to know these things☺️  

We do carry a small heater and will have a generator.  And, always have our down sleeping bags for cold nights.  

Do you have the snow chains?  If so, could you post type/size, if available.

Harvest Hosts was a though I had as well.  Will wait till our pickup date nears before joining.  We plan to stick to the most direct route with favorable weather on the way to Tennessee.  But, weather dependent, we might venture off the interstate on our adventure home.

We will have food, of course, but in the event the fridge should quit cooling, we will have a cooler (used on the trip out).

Recommended emergency tools?

Edited September 24, 2020 by SeaDawg

[John E Davies]

47 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

Do you have the snow chains?  If so, could you post type/size, if available.

I don’t have any for “Mouse” because I won’t tow in winter. I am not sure what size tire they are installing. Call your sales rep and ask. Then get a single set of Z-Chains (or a clone) in that size. They should have a zig zag pattern rather than straight across. That ensures that there is always a wire in contact with the ground for best braking traction, and it reduces the thump thump thump if you have to tow slowly on a hard surface. Some local auto parts stores offer free return of unused cables in the spring, that might be worth looking into. If you plan on camping in very marginal weather, then keep them, just in case they are ever needed. They are light and not bulky. If you plan to winter camp (skiing) then you need to have and use two sets on the trailer.

https://www.peerlesschain.com/brands/traction-product-choices/z-chain/

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ray and Susan Huff]

53 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

I don’t have any for “Mouse” because I won’t tow in winter. I am not sure what size tire they are installing. Call your sales rep and ask. Then get a single set of Z-Chains (or a clone) in that size. They should have a zig zag pattern rather than straight across. That ensures that there is always a wire in contact with the ground for best braking traction, and it reduces the thump thump thump if you have to tow slowly on a hard surface. Some local auto parts stores offer free return of unused cables in the spring, that might be worth looking into. If you plan on camping in very marginal weather, then keep them, just in case they are ever needed. They are light and not bulky. If you plan to winter camp (skiing) then you need to have and use two sets on the trailer.

https://www.peerlesschain.com/brands/traction-product-choices/z-chain/

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks for the suggestion.  Would you use the same on the pickup?  Ours is 4wd.  Front, rear, or both?  

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, Susan Huff said:

Thanks for the suggestion.  Would you use the same on the pickup?  Ours is 4wd.  Front, rear, or both?  

No, these are light duty. For the weight of your truck and the need for serious towing traction, I would get one pair of heavy duty truck chains plus rubber tensioners, for just the rear axle. This will be fine for  99% of the situations you might encounter.  For anything worse, don’t drive.

I have two sets of heavy chains that I could use to get around in a disaster, or drive through bottomless mud, or Snowmageddon, when you have to get the gal in labor to the hospital, no matter what, through two feet of unplowed snow. With studless snow tires I have never actually had to use them on my Land Cruiser 200. But OTH I am not towing a brand new $65,000 three ton trailer over slick winter roads.

This really deserves a new discussion thread..... you need fresh winter tires on the TV, not half-gone, five year old All Terrains, or you will be in a ditch, regardless of your having chains for the passes. I hope I am not scaring you, are you used to, and is the truck equipped for, normal snow or black ice driving? Attached is Oregon’s requirements for passes, most states are very similar. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Edited September 23, 2020 by John E Davies

[Ray and Susan Huff]

30 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

No, these are light duty. For the weight of your truck and the need for serious towing traction, I would get one pair of heavy duty truck chains plus rubber tensioners, for just the rear axle. This will be fine for  99% of the situations you might encounter.  For anything worse, don’t drive.

I have two sets of heavy chains that I could use to get around in a disaster, or drive through bottomless mud, or Snowmageddon, when you have to get the gal in labor to the hospital, no matter what, through two feet of unplowed snow. With studless snow tires I have never actually had to use them on my Land Cruiser 200. But OTH I am not towing a brand new $65,000 three ton trailer over slick winter roads.

This really deserves a new discussion thread..... you need fresh winter tires on the TV, not half-gone, five year old All Terrains, or you will be in a ditch, regardless of your having chains for the passes. I hope I am not scaring you, are you used to, and is the truck equipped for, normal snow or black ice driving? Attached is Oregon’s requirements for passes, most states are very similar. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks . . . .  we have not driven the pickup much in the snow since we pretty much stay on the coast in the winter and I haven't driven in snow since my "younger years" of skiing in Washington and Oregon.  My husband, however, drove a milk tanker w/trailer until retiring in 2012.   He mostly drove locally, but often delivered milk from Oregon to Idaho or Bellingham, WA, so I trust his judgment.  We have discussed the December tow home and are planning to watch the weather and stay put if snow is forecast in the passes we will need to cross.  Hoping it will be early enough in the season that we can make the trip via I-40.  We are installing new tires before heading out. 

Do you know how I can request this be moved to a new thread?

[SeaDawg]

Susan, I  split this for you. 

Sherry

[Jim_Oker]

I've used these on my Ford E250 camper van in very slick hard snow and ice conditions and they've performed well (I also put on good "snowflake" symbol snow tires with  soft rubber and siping for the  winter season). I used then this past winter after not having used them for a few years and it took about 5 minutes on each end for install and removal. Keep a big trash  bag or some such handy to kneel/lay on while doing the deed, and perhaps some garden gloves or similar as well. These are easier and seem to perform better than the prior chains I used, which were actual chains (rather than cables) also with a rubber  tensioner. Chains are no fun - no one loves dealing with them and they're noisy and you have to drive very slowly when  they're on, but when you need them you  need them!

https://www.peerlesschain.com/brands/traction-product-choices/super-z/

[Jim_Oker]

You probably know this, but it's not a good  plan to skip the  chains based on planning to simply sit out any snow events. There are some roadways where they're required to be in the  vehicle all season long whether they're required to be on the tires at the moment or not, and you never know when you might get caught in an unexpected snow squall. You  sound like a cautious and well informed individual so this is likely not necessary input 🙂 but it seems worth mentioning in any thread like this for folks who may not have spent much time in western states...

[NCeagle]

I've got chains for my truck.  I need chains for one axle on the Oliver.  I'm looking at something similar (cables) to the Peerless brand Jim mentioned from Security Chain Company:  

• Security Chain Company ZT729 Super Z LT Light Truck and SUV Tire Traction Chain - Set of 2

[Jim_Oker]

Yeah, at least from the photo and description those look remarkably similar to what I have. I  had to do a double take as at first I wondered if  they were the same exact chains but just branded differently.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

3 hours ago, Jim_Oker said:

You probably know this, but it's not a good  plan to skip the  chains based on planning to simply sit out any snow events. There are some roadways where they're required to be in the  vehicle all season long whether they're required to be on the tires at the moment or not, and you never know when you might get caught in an unexpected snow squall. You  sound like a cautious and well informed individual so this is likely not necessary input 🙂 but it seems worth mentioning in any thread like this for folks who may not have spent much time in western states...

Yes . . . . here in Oregon we have strict "carry chains" regulations Nov through Apr.  Even with 4wd/All-wd you must carry chains.  Both of our vehicles fit this description and we don't have chains . . . .  we simply don't travel higher passes (even on I-5), during chain season.  Well, maybe I should rephrase that, we usually don't 😀 We rarely get snow where we live - more apt to get icy conditions, so we don't put snow/studded tires on our vehicles. My BMW X-5 has run-flat tires, so I'm not sure they even make chains for them.   

The trip to Tennessee will be a good excuse to buy chains for the pickup/Oliver.  We would use then, as you said, to get us to a place where we can sit tight until driving conditions improve.  Aside from some unusual weather, I don't anticipate to much snowy weather in early December - maybe some ice.  But it will still be the year 2020 😱 Actually, when we traveled to Arizona last year, we had to reroute our trip to dodge snowstorms the end of May.

I appreciate all the Winter driving tips, especially as they pertain to towing in locations we are basically unfamiliar with.  Living on the West Coast most of our lives, we are accustomed to reading the weather and knowing what to expect.  Our recent journeys in the SW/Midwest regions of the country have made us look at the weather differently.  We just need to get out more - practice makes perfect!  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

2 hours ago, NCeagle said:

I've got chains for my truck.  I need chains for one axle on the Oliver.  I'm looking at something similar (cables) to the Peerless brand Jim mentioned from Security Chain Company:  

• Security Chain Company ZT729 Super Z LT Light Truck and SUV Tire Traction Chain - Set of 2

Thanks . . . . looks like you have to buy the tensioner separately?

What chains do you use on your truck?  Ours would need similar.

[NCeagle]

11 hours ago, Susan Huff said:

Thanks . . . . looks like you have to buy the tensioner separately?

What chains do you use on your truck?  Ours would need similar.

I have "real" chains as opposed to cables (https://www.etrailer.com/p-TC3829.html) on the truck.  I chose the V Bar linked chains for the best traction in deep snow AND ice because I carry them skiing in the Rockies with me, but I haven't had to use them yet (thankfully).  I also bought the spring tensioner (https://www.etrailer.com/p-TCSA2.html), although I'm not convinced they are absolutely necessary.  I saw a lot of positive reviews for the spring tensioners mentioned with these particular chains.  

I also noticed that these chains are on sale (at least right now) for a lot less than I paid several years ago.

[John E Davies]

15 hours ago, Susan Huff said:

Yes . . . . here in Oregon we have strict "carry chains" regulations Nov through Apr.  Even with 4wd/All-wd you must carry chains.  Both of our vehicles fit this description and we don't have chains . . . .  

This confuses a lot of folks. Legally you have to carry chains for those passes. You do NOT have to install them if the signs say “Chains Required” if you have 4WD/AWD and traction tires installed and are not towing. Normally if things are bad enough that all vehicles must chain up, the DOT closes down the road until it gets cleared of spun out vehicles.

Traction tires, not the same as M&S, have the snowflake/ mountain symbol on the sidewall and have a little different rubber that won’t slip quite as much when the road is freezing cold. (However they are not true snow tires, which must not be run in warmer seasons because they have really soft rubber, they get squirmy and wear out incredibly fast on dry hot pavement.) Nokian makes one truck tire with a snowflake that can be used year round (WR G4). There are a few more agressive All Terrains available like the BFG TA K/O2 that have the symbol. This stuff changes constantly, so you have to do your research. 

https://info.kaltire.com/what-is-the-winter-tire-symbol/

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/all-terrain-vs-winter-tires#

The big problem is finding these tires in non standard sizes. I run Nokian LT2 non studded from mid-November through late February on their own wheels. When they wear out (50% tread) I may try the BFG snowflake AT tires for October through April, since sometimes I encounter non-snow conditions like mud where a conventional tight snow tire tread is hopeless. And sometimes I am running my mud tires in the shoulder seasons and encounter snow on the passes. But ATs are hopeless in some offroad situations and throw gravel like crazy..... And pure snow tires are so very wonderful on black ice. Darn it, so many compromises.... and we haven’t even mentioned TPMS for your second set of wheels yet, another great big can of worms.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

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Edited September 25, 2020 by John E Davies

[FJV]

Luckily technology provides choices: We no longer depend upon one type of rubber compound for all conditions. We have low resistance summer tires of all types depending on price you get what you purchase, , Adhesive rubber traction winter compounds and mud terrain tires. Chains are desirable in snow on the rear drive wheels but on most passenger style vehicles using chains in mud may cause vehicle body damage as the mud packs into the wheel wells. Mud terrain chuck the muck with self cleaning cleat design. No containment on the tire and small pieces thrown clear of tire tread.

I've experienced dragging a trailer 21 miles on/through gumbo (mud/clay) as the tires did not have self clearing cleats. Hair raising experience cross wooden bridges down and up embankments. The tow vehicle had Michelin M/S tires. Not an aggressive tread at all but pulled the trailer and powered the truck to a gravel road that looked like an oasis. Amazing! I purchased Hankook Mud terrain for the tow vehicle and mud terrain tires for the trailer as spares.

Bottom line. If possible use the required tires or stay safe and stay put. Be prepared.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 9/23/2020 at 12:37 PM, John E Davies said:

I am not sure what size tire they are installing. Call your sales rep and ask. Then get a single set of Z-Chains (or a clone) in that size.

John Davies

Spokane WA

I asked Oliver.  The 2021 models are equipped with Cooper E rated 10-ply truck tires - 225/75/R16 mounted on aluminum rims.

[bhncb]

26 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

I asked Oliver.  The 2021 models are equipped with Cooper E rated 10-ply truck tires - 225/75/R16 mounted on aluminum rims.

Anyone thinking about using chains on the trailer had better make sure there is enough clearance between the tire and fender skirt. Wheels have changed but not on my 2018, no way no how.

[Jim_Oker]

1 hour ago, bhncb said:

Anyone thinking about using chains on the trailer had better make sure there is enough clearance between the tire and fender skirt. Wheels have changed but not on my 2018, no way no how.

Hmm. That's a good  point to raise.  "Socks"  would  potentially  be another option  - they're  for sure better than nothing and also generally tend to be  acceptable in "chains required" situations  on passes. There are  various makes and while  I have  a pair in the trunk of our VW Jetta I have yet to have  had the need to  deploy  them.

[bhncb]

3 minutes ago, Jim_Oker said:

Hmm. That's a good  point to raise.  "Socks"  would  potentially  be another option  - they're  for sure better than nothing and also generally tend to be  acceptable in "chains required" situations  on passes. There are  various makes and while  I have  a pair in the trunk of our VW Jetta I have yet to have  had the need to  deploy  them.

I'd question whether even those would clear reliably but there doesn't appear to be availability in the correct size anyway. Another point for potential interference are the shock absorbers and frame mounting brackets.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

2 hours ago, Susan Huff said:

I asked Oliver.  The 2021 models are equipped with Cooper E rated 10-ply truck tires - 225/75/R16 mounted on aluminum rims.

 

2 hours ago, bhncb said:

Anyone thinking about using chains on the trailer had better make sure there is enough clearance between the tire and fender skirt. Wheels have changed but not on my 2018, no way no how.

I have asked this question as well.

Wheels may have changed and the tires have, but are they the same size as previous models?  Has anyone out there used cable chains on the Oliver?  

As for clearance between the tire and fender, we used cable chains on a previous Mazda Sport Sedan with low profile high performance tires and very little clearance between the tire and the fender well.  Of course , you want to drive slow, but that's the case driving any vehicle outfitted with snow chains. . . . . . Except maybe for those skiers rushing to be first in the lift line . . . .  😵

Not ordering chains for the Ollie yet.  Will wait to hear what Oliver (and others) have to say.  We might just wait until we get to Hohenwald and pick them up locally . . . . . after the drive out, we will have a better idea of road conditions and whether we need them.

[bhncb]

1 hour ago, Susan Huff said:

Wheels may have changed and the tires have, but are they the same size as previous models? 

The tire size is the same but the wheel dimensions on 2020 forward are different. The current Lionshead Jaguar wheel is a 16x6 with 0 offset. Prior years used either Icon (fake rivets) or HiSpec Series 03 that is a 16x7 with 8mm outset. The outset positions the tire that much closer (5/16") to the fender skirt and away from the frame. Back when, Oliver had to trim the fender skirts to eliminate contact damage from/to the tire.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

3 hours ago, bhncb said:

The tire size is the same but the wheel dimensions on 2020 forward are different. The current Lionshead Jaguar wheel is a 16x6 with 0 offset. Prior years used either Icon (fake rivets) or HiSpec Series 03 that is a 16x7 with 8mm outset. The outset positions the tire that much closer (5/16") to the fender skirt and away from the frame. Back when, Oliver had to trim the fender skirts to eliminate contact damage from/to the tire.

Thanks . . . . good to know.

I'm waiting for a response from Oliver.  Hoping they have some experience with chains on the Oliver.  I'm confident, if they don't they will investigate the matter 😃

 

[Jim_Oker]

39 minutes ago, Susan Huff said:

I'm waiting for a response from Oliver. 

I look forward to reading  the answer. I pick up on the 18th, a bit over  a week after you so I have a keen interest in being prepared for getting caught in a snow squall =8-O

[NCeagle]

14 hours ago, bhncb said:

Anyone thinking about using chains on the trailer had better make sure there is enough clearance between the tire and fender skirt. Wheels have changed but not on my 2018, no way no how.

I would think the Z-chains that JD mentioned would be the best option since they are really cables that snug very close to the tire when properly sized.  Real chains do have a bit of play in them and definitely require more clearance around everything.

[NCeagle]

On 9/24/2020 at 6:10 PM, NCeagle said:

I've got chains for my truck.  I need chains for one axle on the Oliver.  I'm looking at something similar (cables) to the Peerless brand Jim mentioned from Security Chain Company:  

• Security Chain Company ZT729 Super Z LT Light Truck and SUV Tire Traction Chain - Set of 2

These are on sale 16% off right now on Amazon and the lowest price in 30 days.  I'm pulling the trigger on them since I pick up in 5 weeks and will be within the return window if they don't clear / fit or something.   I suspect the price will creep up as winter gets closer and closer.