Trojan T105 batteries dead

[Going]

My Trojan T105s have died.  I am at least a year away from doing any serious boondocking but I need DC power to some extent currently.  I have two Honda 1000 watt generators I can power everything in the Ollie with.  My dilemma is do I just replace my batteries or upgrade to the Lithium Platium package for 15k.  Replacement for the 4 T105s is about $1200.  I have the solar panel system too.  Should I replace the T105s with the same or I believe there was an AGM option in 2017.  Are there other options now without making the light speed jump to 15K Lithium? I do not like that the Trojans are wet cell and need to be watered but I don’t know if there is any other option without the bucks for the Platium Lithium package.  At the moment I am leaning towards just replacing the Trojans.  Can anyone suggest other options?

[ScubaRx]

Although I wouldn’t do it, if you want to go cheaper than lithiums, you could just go to AGM’s. But for less than $3K, you can replace the four T-105’s with 3x100 amp hour Battle Born lithium batteries and a new PD charger that’s plug and play. There’s no need to spend $15K. And you’ll end with an extra 100 amp hours over what you currently have. 

[John E Davies]

Four 6 volt AGMs are certainly the most painless and cost effective option. But they are not especially long lived, anything longer than three years is uncommon. Mine were fried at the beginning of season four. The advantage is that they are completely plug and play, you don’t have to mess around with different charger settings or making new cables.

Lithiums are the way to go if you are at all handy and willing to learn how they work. They require a clear understanding of their differences and care. The weight savings is stunning! They do require a new charging board for your converter, with a “lithium switch”, and a simple change of settings in your solar controller. Your truck will no longer charge them properly, you should either disconnect that charge wire or install a smart DC to DC charger that will properly manage that current. If the brand has its own Bluetooth app, you do not need to do anything else special, but Battle Borns require a separate battery monitor, to keep track of the state of charge. (You can no longer use the system voltage since it doesn’t steadily decline like a lead acid battery.)

I suggest that you educate yourself about RV lithium batteries, and then make an informed decision. I switched to two Battle Born 100 amp hour ones and I find that amount to be plenty, except when I am running a compressor fridge in the truck, that uses up to 50 AH per day and then I start to worry.  I do have room for a third battery, but so far I do not think I will need to add it…

These ship free and have a super warranty and reputation:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

This is excellent:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6629-how-to-find-happiness-with-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-solacity-article/

Other FYI:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/4812-how-to-progressive-dynamics-pd4045-lithium-upgrade/

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/

If you must get running again ASAP, buy a $100 12 volt Walmart Deep Cycle battery (not AGM) and use that until you get the situation under control. Later you can sell it on Craigslist and recoup some of its cost.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[KenB]

Very timely.   Thanks for asking the question.  I’m dealing with battery problems today too.

This evening I drove 150 miles up to our rural property where we keep the Oliver most of the summer and fall.  There isn’t electric power on the property anymore, so it’s off grid camping when we’re here.  First thing I notice when I drive up to the camper in the dark is that the outside porch lights were left on for at least a week, 24 hrs/day.  That was my mistake.   Leaving the lights on was compounded by overcast skies with rain and snow all week keeping solar production way down.  
 

After unlocking the door and turning on the interior lights,  I see the battery voltage is down to a cringeworthy 11.0V.  Once I turned on the furnace, the battery Voltage dropped to somewhere around 10.4V!  I realize that now I have an urgent problem.  If I don’t get some additional power to the batteries in the next few hours, I’m not going to be able to run the furnace tonight, and then I’m going to be dealing with frozen pipes tomorrow.  Luckily last week I bought a 1000W Yamaha RV type generator at a garage sale, so now I’m listening to generator noise while charging the batteries and running the furnace so the pipes don’t freeze tonight.   Surprisingly, the little 1000 Watt Yamaha generator puts out the same 8A@12V DC for battery charging as our big 5000W Honda generator.  Of course the Honda puts out much more AC power, but it’s puzzling as to why their DC power output rating is equal.  

The new generator has been running for about two hours now and the battery shows 13.2V.  I’ll probably go fuel it up again before bed and just let it run.  We don’t have any neighbors to worry about. 
 

Our factory solar panels with healthy batteries should have handled leaving a few lights on for the week, overcast or not.   Now I’m shopping for new batteries too.  

[John E Davies]

Ken, it is far better to plug the gennie 120 VAC output into your shore power connection. That will give you 45 amps through your onboard converter. It should be fine as long as you don’t try to draw any extra power while charging. Flip off all those other breakers. FYI the 8 amps DC is unregulated. You really don’t need to worry with a large battery bank, but it will fry a small battery since the current never tapers off. Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

[KenB]

41 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Ken, it is far better to plug the gennie 120 VAC output into your shore power connection. That will give you 45 amps through your onboard converter. It should be fine as long as you don’t try to draw any extra power while charging. Flip off all those other breakers. FYI the 8 amps DC is unregulated. You really don’t need to worry with a large battery bank, but it will fry a small battery since the current never tapers off. Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

Thank for the late night comment John.  You’re right.  My mental math with Volts, Watts, and Amps was off by a decimal place this evening.  The onboard converter is the way to go. 

[Going]

9 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Although I wouldn’t do it, if you want to go cheaper than lithiums, you could just go to AGM’s. But for less than $3K, you can replace the four T-105’s with 3x100 amp hour Battle Born lithium batteries and a new PD charger that’s plug and play. There’s no need to spend $15K. And you’ll end with an extra 100 amp hours over what you currently have. 

Thank you ScubaRX.  This sounds like the way to go and the advice I was looking for.  I have seen the Battle Borns mentioned in other threads.  What is a PD charger?

[Going]

8 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Four 6 volt AGMs are certainly the most painless and cost effective option. But they are not especially long lived, anything longer than three years is uncommon. Mine were fried at the beginning of season four. The advantage is that they are completely plug and play, you don’t have to mess around with different charger settings or making new cables.

Lithiums are the way to go if you are at all handy and willing to learn how they work. They require a clear understanding of their differences and care. The weight savings is stunning! They do require a new charging board for your converter, with a “lithium switch”, and a simple change of settings in your solar controller. Your truck will no longer charge them properly, you should either disconnect that charge wire or install a smart DC to DC charger that will properly manage that current. If the brand has its own Bluetooth app, you do not need to do anything else special, but Battle Borns require a separate battery monitor, to keep track of the state of charge. (You can no longer use the system voltage since it doesn’t steadily decline like a lead acid battery.)

I suggest that you educate yourself about RV lithium batteries, and then make an informed decision. I switched to two Battle Born 100 amp hour ones and I find that amount to be plenty, except when I am running a compressor fridge in the truck, that uses up to 50 AH per day and then I start to worry.  I do have room for a third battery, but so far I do not think I will need to add it…

These ship free and have a super warranty and reputation:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

This is excellent:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/6629-how-to-find-happiness-with-lifepo4-lithium-ion-batteries-solacity-article/

Other FYI:

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/4812-how-to-progressive-dynamics-pd4045-lithium-upgrade/

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/topic/5270-how-to-redarc-dc-to-dc-11-amp-output-trailer-charger-installation/

If you must get running again ASAP, buy a $100 12 volt Walmart Deep Cycle battery (not AGM) and use that until you get the situation under control. Later you can sell it on Craigslist and recoup some of its cost.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thank you John for the info and links.  I am very handy at most diy things but electricity is my weak point DC or AC.  For example I just purchased a shore power extension because I added a 30amp plug off my shop at home.  When I plugged it into the Furion cable that came with the oliver the red light and blue were on.  I knew the red meant the polarity was reversed at the source so switched the hot and nuetral.  I then tested with a volt meter by plugging the black in the ground and the red into the left and got 122 volts.  Plugging the red into the right showed no voltage which is what the article I used said was correct.  However, when I plugged the Furion cable back up the red still came on so now I have no idea why. 

I will try to educate myself on the battle born battery lithium replacement but I wonder if there is anywhere I could trust to work on the Oliver where I am at or close by?  I live in Charlotte NC.  I don’t trust an RV dealer unless they have specifically done this swap out. I don’t plan to travel until spring again so I have some time to try myself but prefer to pay a reasonable amount to someone with the expertise.

I have read many of your post John and have surmised you must be an engineer.  Correct?  Just curious

[Mike and Carol]

10 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

Although I wouldn’t do it, if you want to go cheaper than lithiums, you could just go to AGM’s. But for less than $3K, you can replace the four T-105’s with 3x100 amp hour Battle Born lithium batteries and a new PD charger that’s plug and play. There’s no need to spend $15K. And you’ll end with an extra 100 amp hours over what you currently have. 

I agree with Steve here and with JD’s advice.  Our AGMs lasted almost 5 years.  We’re almost at 2 years with our 3 Battle Borns.  If your trailer is a 2017 I assume you have the Blue Sky controller.  The base 100aH BB lithiums were about $800 each.  The updated PD 4045 was a little over $100, also from BB.  There is some reprogramming of the Blue Sky but BB provides the parameters and it is not difficult. The PD (Progressive Dynamics) 4045 is what charges your batteries when on shore power.  The old model did not support lithium, the new one does.  It is part of your fuse box under the dinette seat.  Check to see if yours has a little lithium toggle on the front.  Not difficult to swap out.  The folks at Battle Born are very helpful answering questions and giving guidance.  Mike

[Going]

3 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I agree with Steve here and with JD’s advice.  Our AGMs lasted almost 5 years.  We’re almost at 2 years with our 3 Battle Borns.  If your trailer is a 2017 I assume you have the Blue Sky controller.  The base 100aH BB lithiums were about $800 each.  The updated PD 4045 was a little over $100, also from BB.  There is some reprogramming of the Blue Sky but BB provides the parameters and it is not difficult. The PD (Progressive Dynamics) 4045 is what charges your batteries when on shore power.  The old model did not support lithium, the new one does.  It is part of your fuse box under the dinette seat.  Check to see if yours has a little lithium toggle on the front.  Not difficult to swap out.  The folks at Battle Born are very helpful answering questions and giving guidance.  Mike

Thanks Mike.  I will check on your suggestions and place a call to BB.  As long as I have a technical person helping me along the way, I am good if it is not too difficult and from your post, it doesn’t sound as if it is.

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, Going said:

Thanks Mike.  I will check on your suggestions and place a call to BB.  As long as I have a technical person helping me along the way, I am good if it is not too difficult and from your post, it doesn’t sound as if it is.

Remember that to use Battle Born batteries effectively you need to install an external smart battery monitor, that indeed requires some additional parts and professional labor in any Oliver, you must reroute and possibly make new ground cables so all of them go through that device’s “smart bus” terminal.  Some other brands do not require this! Read this:

https://battlebornbatteries.com/what-is-a-battery-monitor/

The reason you do not necessarily need one with a Lithionics, for example, is that there is an included app that does it. I still prefer BB!

BTW your solar controller should be Zamp. That is what was in mine, Hull 218, originally. I swapped in a better Victron unit.

Good luck.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GraniteStaters]

This thread is so timely.  We didn’t have any issues in the spring when we were on solar only for 26 out of 30 nights.   We were camping in Maine September and on our last night, the 4th, the furnace ran a bit more often than usual and we were down to 11.5V on our AGM batteries.   When we got home we decided to test our 4 6V batteries overnight.  We weren’t connected to power and only ran the furnace set to 58 degrees, the MaxxAir fan, and the cell booster.  We have parasitic draws for our Victron shunt and propane/CO detector only.  The compost toilet fan was disconnected.  Over night the first battery in each string was at 3.86 volts.  Rear batteries were above 6V.  Decided to do the test again using the two AGM batteries that were replaced in the fall of 2020.   This test was overnight and only the fan, cell booster, and Wi-Fi extender were running.  We hit less than 2V on the front battery.  Rear batteries were over 6V.  All batteries have returned to over 6.6V+ after being charged by the Progressive converter using shore power or the solar.  We are very confused.  Everything I read indicates that the SOC is 100 percent when these batteries are at 6.75V.  I am assuming that the front batteries in the string are the only ones that are suspect.  I am going to take both of the rear batteries and combine in a string and retest. Let me know your thoughts.  
 

David

 

[topgun2]

How long after you charge all four batteries are you seeing that 6.75 volt reading?  

As has been said a number of times before - the only real way to test batteries is to put a "load" on them.  This you have done in your testing and those low readings are indications to both you and me that those batteries are basically toast.

 

26 minutes ago, GraniteStaters said:

Decided to do the test again using the two AGM batteries that were replaced in the fall of 2020.

AS a matter of course - all batteries should be replaced together - not two at a time and the replacement batteries should have a manufactured date as close together as possible (i.e. they should be the same age).  Of course this applies to AGM's or straight lead acid batteries - I'm not certain about Lithiums but suspect that they will be close to being the same.

Bill

[GraniteStaters]

I am not sure about how long it took to reach 6.75V.

[topgun2]

23 minutes ago, GraniteStaters said:

I am not sure about how long it took to reach 6.75V.

Actually I was asking - how long did you let the batteries "rest" (with no load) AFTER you charged them up to the 6.75 volts.

The answer to this question would shed light on how well the batteries are holding a charge.

Bill

[GraniteStaters]

The other string are not installed at this point and have been sitting in our cellar since last Friday and are both at 6.66V.   One of them was the first in string for my test last week and it got to 1.86V before I connected to shore power.  BTW, some of my testing was done with the batteries charged and solar panels covered too trying to simulate overnight conditions without running the furnace.   

[John E Davies]

17 hours ago, GraniteStaters said:

Everything I read indicates that the SOC is 100 percent when these batteries are at 6.75V.  

What did the Victron Connect app indicate for charge? This is only a vague guide because it changes as the batteries age. It is quite primitive in how it operates. For example, the app lets you “reset SOC to 100%” even if the batteries are completely fried toast. 

The ONLY way to test an AGM for its condition is by load testing with a quality meter. They must all be fully charged, disconnected and then sit for six hours or overnight. Do this, take them to a battery store, and they will check them at no charge (battery joke). I bet at least two are junk, which means they all need to be replaced unless you want to operate on just the two others, if they test OK. That is what I did for a month before I swapped in the Battle Borns - it made a great winter project.

Batteries fail by one or more individual cells going bad, shorted out, this causes self discharge of the other cells and when another battery is connected, it draws that one down too.  And they can’t supply enough current for the load. Typically I saw this when trying to run the inverter and microwave, I kept getting low voltage alarms and the amp draw was way too high. (Ohm’s law, low voltage means the amperage increases.) Two batteries were junk, the third was marginal and the fourth was acceptable….

John Davies

Spokane WA

[GraniteStaters]

I removed the first battery today and took the rear battery from the other string and reinstalled at the front battery.  I now have the batteries installed and we had sufficient sun today to complete charging before the sun abated.  I have taken battery I removed that dropped precipitously today when I started the furnace after doing okay overnight.  It had used 11ah of power, but the furnace running quickly resulted in a 11.5V and then below 10V reading.  The first battery in the string stayed pretty strong.  I have now taken the battery I removed and manually charged it to full strength.  It was pretty well charged by the sun when I removed it, but I topped it off for about 15 minutes before I disconnected.  It was at 7.25V right after I removed the charger.  Within a 1/2 hour it dropped and after about an hour it settled to 6.6V.  Tomorrow I will take this battery and the other battery to have it load tested.  I suspect as everyone else is suggesting that they will both fail and then we will be looking to replace the batteries.  I have a 2019 Oliver that has the Progressive Dynamic Converter that supports Lithium so I may be looking at that option too and will be reviewing posts about doing this upgrade if we go that way.

[GraniteStaters]

Well, I did my battery test this AM before sunrise.  I had the just two 6V batteries installed.  Overnight the cell booster and parasitic draws was the only thing drawing power.  There had been just 1Ah used.  Batteries were both over 6.5V each.  It was in the low 30's outside, but in the very low 40's inside the Oliver.  I turned on the furnace with the fan set to low and the temp at 58 degrees.  It ran for over 1 hour and 30 minutes on the batteries and the both batteries were at 6.3V while the furnace was running returning to just under 13V when the fan motor wasn't running.

Step two was to take the two suspect batteries to be load tested.  Both batteries were fully charged and read 6.6V+ this AM.  They used their load test tool and set it to 1100 CCA and began test and both batteries passed.  I asked if that was the extent of a load test, having never seen one, and they said yes.  I am still a little skeptical because they always work okay at first since onset of the symptom. 

I am not sure where to go from here, but suspect that I will confirm my Progressive Dynamics Charge Controller to insure that it is set to VLRA and not Lithium.  Zamp definitely has always said AGM.  I may reinstall these two tested batteries again and do my test again tomorrow. 

[Going]

So replying to everyone here since I have talked to BB and I know David may be soon doing the same thing.  First, John it looks like from your picture that you took out the factory battery sliding tray.  Just curious was that just for more room?  It appears the BBs will fit in the existing but would like to hear your thought.  I gave some thought to try and fit 4 of the 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Batteries from BB in there but I think 3 is the max.  Other components being provided by BB are:

SHU050150050 SmartShunt 500A/50mV x 1.  This is the BlueTooth battery monitor although I am not yet sure (waiting on reply from BB) if this will work as the solution that John references or I need the actual one in the link he provided.  (waiting on a reply email from BB). Costs $124

SCC110030210 SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 Charge Controller with Bluetooth x 1.  I believe this is the Victron to replace the Zamp.  It is not required but since John recommended and it is only $214 and offers more capacity and better readings I think it is worth it.

100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Batteries x 3. Costs approximately $850 each.

PD4045LICSV Progressive Dynamics Replacements 4000 Series 45 Amp Lithium Converter x 1.  My PD Charger does not have the Lithium switch.  Costs $212.

It seems that this is a fairly simple change out to do my self.  John, you did mention the external smart battery monitoring device being done by a professional.  Is there a particular reason for that?  I have a found an RV dealer that can do the whole swap out but if I must have any one part done by professional, I would do it all with them and me buying the parts.

One last thought is BB makes the 270Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle 8D Battery and it costs $2279 and it appears two of these would also fit giving me 540Ah.  That is $4600 vs $1750 for the batteries but still a far cry from 15k the Oliver factory install would costs.  Plus it is close to the Ah their solution provides.  BB did mention the option of an external suitcase Solar panel that could could be plugged into the battery array to provide more solar charging capability.

Please let me know any thoughts or if anyone thinks I am missing something.  Hopefully this will help David as well.

Phil Drye

[ScubaRx]

23 hours ago, Going said:

So replying to everyone here since I have talked to BB and I know David may be soon doing the same thing.  First, John it looks like from your picture that you took out the factory battery sliding tray.  Just curious was that just for more room?  It appears the BBs will fit in the existing but would like to hear your thought.  I gave some thought to try and fit 4 of the 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Batteries from BB in there but I think 3 is the max.  Other components being provided by BB are:

SHU050150050 SmartShunt 500A/50mV x 1.  This is the BlueTooth battery monitor although I am not yet sure (waiting on reply from BB) if this will work as the solution that John references or I need the actual one in the link he provided.  (waiting on a reply email from BB). Costs $124

SCC110030210 SmartSolar MPPT 100/30 Charge Controller with Bluetooth x 1.  I believe this is the Victron to replace the Zamp.  It is not required but since John recommended and it is only $214 and offers more capacity and better readings I think it is worth it.

100Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Batteries x 3. Costs approximately $850 each.

PD4045LICSV Progressive Dynamics Replacements 4000 Series 45 Amp Lithium Converter x 1.  My PD Charger does not have the Lithium switch.  Costs $212.

It seems that this is a fairly simple change out to do my self.  John, you did mention the external smart battery monitoring device being done by a professional.  Is there a particular reason for that?  I have a found an RV dealer that can do the whole swap out but if I must have any one part done by professional, I would do it all with them and me buying the parts.

One last thought is BB makes the 270Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle 8D Battery and it costs $2279 and it appears two of these would also fit giving me 540Ah.  That is $4600 vs $1750 for the batteries but still a far cry from 15k the Oliver factory install would costs.  Plus it is close to the Ah their solution provides.  BB did mention the option of an external suitcase Solar panel that could could be plugged into the battery array to provide more solar charging capability.

Please let me know any thoughts or if anyone thinks I am missing something.  Hopefully this will help David as well.

Phil Drye

How much solar does your trailer currently have? Do you have the Zamp controller?

[Going]

1 hour ago, ScubaRx said:

How much solar does your trailer currently have? Do you have the Zamp controller?

I have the 320 Watt package with the T105 Trojons from Oliver when I bought my trailer in the fall of 2017.   And yes I have the Zamp controller.  Just got off the phone with BB again and since the Zamp controller will work I may wait on replacing that unless there is some good reason to replace it.  At this point, I am thinking of one GC3 BB; https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/270ah-12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-gc3-battery/ to convert instead of 3, 100Ah's https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/.  The reason is because I can easily add a second GC3 if I want and have 540Ah to run more things or longer time.  The max size fit for the 100Ah is 3 vs 2 of the GC3's and you can not mix and match.  One of the GC3s is less than 3 of the 100Ah's for only 30Ah less in power.

[Liana]

19 hours ago, Going said:

have the 320 Watt package with the T105 Trojons

We did this swap in the spring. 3 BB 100ah. What a weight savings!  To your Question about Whether 4 can fit, yes. Someone on here did it. However,  in our experience, 3 has been more than Enough.  Only one time did we go over 100ah (we don't use The air conditioner) of use in one day. We have the lithium jumper and the Zamp controller so the swap was very straightforward.  OTOH I Had a shop install the New BBs and I would not have had the hand strength to Wrestle those cables into place.

With your solar, can you even generate enough to Charge 540ah?

[Going]

1 hour ago, Liana said:

We did this swap in the spring. 3 BB 100ah. What a weight savings!  To your Question about Whether 4 can fit, yes. Someone on here did it. However,  in our experience, 3 has been more than Enough.  Only one time did we go over 100ah (we don't use The air conditioner) of use in one day. We have the lithium jumper and the Zamp controller so the swap was very straightforward.  OTOH I Had a shop install the New BBs and I would not have had the hand strength to Wrestle those cables into place.

With your solar, can you even generate enough to Charge 540ah?

Good question.  Not entirely with 2 GC3s.   But there are 3 options as I understand; 1. Use my Honda generator to supplement.  2. Purchase a suitcase panel from BB that I could plug into the batteries. (Would have to make a connection in the battery box to make the plug up easy).  3. Perhaps the best option is install the DC to DC charger on my tow vehicle that John Davies recommended.  I don’t think anyone has installed the GC3s yet that I know of.  One thing I am trying to figure out to make sure I am not missing anything is why is Oliver so expensive for their Platinum package at 15k vs this scenario.  Even if I install 2 of the GC3s at 540Ah, I would still be spending only $5500 plus 4 or 5 hours labor for the battery install.  Oliver has 31 hours labor included.  One thing is the batteries they use are $4500 each and 315Ah each, so 630 total but everyone on the forum has been happy with either 2 or 3 of the BB 100Ah.  They swap out a few more things but main one I see that is not on my BB quote is INVERTER, XANTREX FREEDOM XC 3000 Pro at about $1500.  I need to understand why or what that does because it is on their quote for the 390Ah and the 630Ah package. 

Questions for you.  Did the installer have to run new cables to the battery area or just inside the battery area?  And if 4 will fit in there, would that leave enough room to work with the cables?  Also, did you remove your factory battery sliding tray or leave it in?

[ScubaRx]

1 hour ago, Going said:

Good question.  Not entirely with 2 GC3s.   But there are 3 options as I understand; 1. Use my Honda generator to supplement.  2. Purchase a suitcase panel from BB that I could plug into the batteries. (Would have to make a connection in the battery box to make the plug up easy).  3. Perhaps the best option is install the DC to DC charger on my tow vehicle that John Davies recommended.  I don’t think anyone has installed the GC3s yet that I know of.  One thing I am trying to figure out to make sure I am not missing anything is why is Oliver so expensive for their Platinum package at 15k vs this scenario.  Even if I install 2 of the GC3s at 540Ah, I would still be spending only $5500 plus 4 or 5 hours labor for the battery install.  Oliver has 31 hours labor included.  One thing is the batteries they use are $4500 each and 315Ah each, so 630 total but everyone on the forum has been happy with either 2 or 3 of the BB 100Ah.  They swap out a few more things but main one I see that is not on my BB quote is INVERTER, XANTREX FREEDOM XC 3000 Pro at about $1500.  I need to understand why or what that does because it is on their quote for the 390Ah and the 630Ah package. 

Questions for you.  Did the installer have to run new cables to the battery area or just inside the battery area?  And if 4 will fit in there, would that leave enough room to work with the cables?  Also, did you remove your factory battery sliding tray or leave it in?

You didn’t mention in the Oliver vs BB comparison the Oliver has ditched the inadequate Zamp equipment for Victron. It won’t make up for the $$ difference but it is light years better in capability. 
 

I swapped my Trojan AGM’s for three BB’s a couple of years ago. We rarely use more than 12% during the dark hours and we are back to 100% by noon with good sun and we only have 300 watts of solar. We were not hobbled with the Zamp stuff as our Hull #050 (and the next 150 trailers) was outfitted with Blue Sky equipment. 
 

A 100 watt panel can only put out about 8 amps so you can calculate how long it would take to replace amps used with whatever number of watts of solar you have. With either the Blue Sky or Victron equipment,  you’ll get a few extra amps because their controllers are MPPT vs PWM on the Zamp. 
 

Older trailers will also need to replace the PD4045 charger with a lithium compatible model ($200+).