Oliver Reward Program

[dewdev]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:58 AM, Rivernerd said:

Agreed.   Unless and until Oliver deletes the present Indemnification paragraph in its Terms and Conditions for the Rewards Program, and substitutes language providing the opposite, i.e., that Oliver will fully defend and indemnify Oliver owners if they get sued for personal injuries incurred when showing their Oliver, I will not be signing up.

Rivernerd:

Thanks for all you comments about your concern about the Terms and Conditions. Glad we got a lawyer on board.

Yesterday, Oliver TT revised their Terms and Conditions. I received a email with a link to those T&C. Have you had a chance to review the new language and what do you think of it now?

Thanks

dewdev

[Steph and Dud B]

"A Participant’s indemnification obligations hereunder arise in the event that a Participant acts in violation of any law, rule, or regulation or contrary to these Terms, and in such event, you agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless Oliver for any loss, damages or costs (including reasonable attorneys' fees), resulting from any third-party claims, actions, or demands arising in such limited circumstances."

I read this as saying we'd be on the hook for everything, including OTT's costs, only if someone sued based on an event where we did something illegal or against Oliver's rules. I think that's better than the previous terms(?). However, they won't extend any protection to us, either: "The Released Parties will have no liability for any losses, damages, or harm (whether bodily injury, death, and/or property damage) that the Participant may incur by performing the Activity."

The absolute limit of any compensation for loss from OTT would be $500: "NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY CONTAINED HEREIN, ANY AND ALL RELEASED PARTIES’ CUMULATIVE LIABILITY TO PARTICIPANT ARISING FROM ANY CAUSE OF ACTION WILL AT ALL TIMES BE LIMITED TO THE LESSER OF (A) YOUR ACTUAL LOSS AS PROVEN; OR (B) $500."

To me, not bad, not great. Seems like I'd have to screw up to be on the hook for any of OTT's costs, which seems fair. However, if something goes wrong, I'd still have to pay for my own defense and damages, unless OTT decided to give me $500.

Very much interested in what someone with actual legal training/experience like @Rivernerd thinks of the revised terms.

[Katjo]

I did receive the email on the updated terms and conditions. Curious as well what @Rivernerd thinks of it. 
 

[Rivernerd]

I agree with the comments posted by Steph and Dud B above.  The new Indemnification paragraph is an improvement, but not enough to persuade me to join the program.

"[V]iolation of any law, rule or regulation" can be intentional or negligent.  Since that language is not limited to intentional acts by the Participant (you), it could be construed to require you to "defend, indemnify and hold harmless" Oliver if you are found to have been negligent, even if you didn't intentionally violate any "law, rule or regulation."  This means that if, for example, you show your Oliver trailer to someone in the winter, and they slip on snow or ice outside the trailer that you are found to have negligently failed to remove and suffer significant injuries, you get to "defend, indemnify and hold harmless" Oliver for all of its defense costs, "including reasonable attorneys' fees."  The end result could still be financial ruin, unless you have an umbrella insurance policy with high limits in place, covering you for negligence claims.

With this new Indemnification language, Oliver is still foisting nearly all of the financial exposure off on to the Participant.  It is not "We've got your back" language that would result in Oliver defending, indemnifying and holding the Participant harmless in the unlikely event that a personal injury claim arises from showing an Oliver trailer. 

In my view, since Oliver owners who enroll in the Rewards Program are acting as a nationwide sales force for Oliver, and being compensated for their sales efforts with the offered Rewards, Oliver should accept full legal responsibility for any litigation arising from a trailer showing.  Oliver could simply buy insurance to cover this additional exposure, like RV dealers buy insurance to cover such claims arising out of RV showings on their lots.  Instead, Oliver expects the participants to buy the insurance, or take the risk, in exchange for the rewards.

In short, Oliver has not yet "done the right thing" (in my view) by agreeing to defend, indemnify and hold harmless the Participants in the Rewards Program for claims arising out of trailer showings.

So, if you choose to enroll in the Oliver Rewards program, I recommend you have a broadly-worded umbrella insurance policy in place covering you for negligence claims AND which does not exclude claims when you are engaged in compensated commercial activity, with limits of several million dollars.  Then, if you are the unlucky owner who gets sued, you are protected.  If the potential rewards are sufficient to cover the cost of the umbrella insurance policy, then enrolling is a sensible business decision for you.

For me, the offered rewards are not even close to sufficient to persuade me to get my umbrella policy amended, if necessary, to be sure it covers me for negligence if I engage in commercially compensated activity.

I still will not be signing up.  And, my opinion of Oliver Travel Trailers as a "customer friendly" business is still lower than when we left Hohenwald last November.

[SeaDawg]

Most of the fiberglass rv /factory direct sales companies sponsor some kind of spiff/ambassador/reward program,  and have for a very long time. 

We don't show ours anymore, except casual showings at gas stations, shopping malls,  campgrounds, and repair facilities, as most people want to see the latest model, not a 2008. (Though lots of people who step or peek inside are utterly astounded at how great a 2008 looks. A few have even  accused me of exaggeration, til I show them the paperwork.)

Back in the day, I  was always excited to show our trailer, but Oliver gave me data on those who requested a look-see. I looked everyone up online, as our trailer has always had an off season spot at our home. I interviewed them by phone, before providing my home address. I don't remember ever collecting a spiff. We enjoyed showing off our cool little trailer. 

We had a lot of fun with it, for a few years. We even let Technomadia test-tow our trailer with their jeep, with my  husband along. Met some fun people along the way. Still friends with some of them, who ultimately decided on another brand.

Times change, people change, and everyone should simply follow their guts. No obligation.  No harm/no foul if you decide to not opt-in.