Rear Jack Mounting Brackets

[Mike and Carol]

2 hours ago, Frank C said:

We’ve seen Oliver owners stranded just from a flat tire because they didn’t have a decent jack to even handle a flat tire on their trailer while on the road.

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but…. A flat tire can be changed using the onboard jack.  I have raised my trailer several times at Discount TIre for tire changes and balancing and while on the road when a grease cap came off.  Oliver doesn’t recommended it anymore, but it was a selling point when I bought and picked up my trailer.  Some even use the onboard jack to level the trailer with the wheels off the ground - not something I would ever do.  But, for a temporary tire change on the side of the road I certainly would.

Now, back to F150s and sudden loss of power.  Mike

[Frank C]

9 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

I don’t want to hijack this thread, but…. A flat tire can be changed using the onboard jack.  I have raised my trailer several times at Discount TIre for tire changes and balancing and while on the road when a grease cap came off.  Oliver doesn’t recommended it anymore, but it was a selling point when I bought and picked up my trailer.  Some even use the onboard jack to level the trailer with the wheels off the ground - not something I would ever do.  But, for a temporary tire change on the side of the road I certainly would.

Now, back to F150s and sudden loss of power.  Mike

After seeing how tiny the welds are on the rear jack mounting brackets, I don’t trust them for anything other than leveling the trailer at a campsite.   I know they are rated for 3,000 lbs each but I still prefer to use a very large heavy duty scissor jack (rated for 3 tons) to raise the trailer for tire and bearing work when I need the trailer completely off the ground.  I do use the stabilizer as a backup.   Sorry for hijacking the thread again. 🙂

[Mike and Carol]

14 minutes ago, Frank C said:

After seeing how tiny the welds are on the rear jack mounting brackets, I don’t trust them for anything other than leveling the trailer at a campsite.   I know they are rated for 3,000 lbs each but I still prefer to use a very large heavy duty scissor jack (rated for 3 tons) to raise the trailer for tire and bearing work when I need the trailer completely off the ground.  I do use the stabilizer as a backup.   Sorry for hijacking the thread again. 🙂

I agree, you should use your jacks and blocks.  What I am addressing is an owner “stranded on the side of the road” because they don’t have jacks.  😳

[topgun2]

55 minutes ago, Frank C said:

After seeing how tiny the welds are on the rear jack mounting brackets,

Frank - 

Could you post a picture of those welds?

There was a time when two steel plates were welded together forming an "L" bracket.  Unfortunately, there apparently were times when only "spot welds" were performed and the full welds were never completed on those brackets.  If you suspect that you have any of these brackets you should take a picture of them and send it to Service.

Bill

[Rivernerd]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:51 AM, topgun2 said:

Could you post a picture of those welds?

I would also like to see a photo of those welds, so I can compare it to what I have on our Hull #1291.

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

I would also like to see a photo of those welds, so I can compare it to what I have on our Hull #1291.

Here are a couple of pictures of the brackets in question and the "spot" welds that obviously failed.

Note that I do not believe any "recent" Oliver has this type of bracket.

And, I'd still like to see pictures of the one(s) mentioned above that broke.

Bill

p.s.  sorry for the thread hijack.  If this goes much further I'll split this "bracket" portion off.

 

[Rivernerd]

Wow!  That is very different from the brackets installed in our Hull #1291.  Ours are steel, not aluminum, and appear to me to be robotically welded angle "iron" (steel).  See photo below.

Given the significance of the difference, and the impact on jack stability, maybe this last part should be broken off into its own thread.  Maybe "Aluminum vs. Steel Jack Brackets"?

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

Maybe "Aluminum vs. Steel Jack Brackets"?

I don't exactly know when but Oliver stopped using the aluminum ones within a year of so (2018?) after the photos above.

[John E Davies]

50 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I don't exactly know when but Oliver stopped using the aluminum ones within a year of so (2018?) after the photos above.

Will Oliver Service exchange the older aluminum ones for steel? I haven’t looked at mine lately, I need to go check. Seems like there should be a recall or at least a Service Bulletin… Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

On 2/8/2023 at 7:49 AM, topgun2 said:

p.s.  sorry for the thread hijack.  If this goes much further I'll split this "bracket" portion off.

Bill:

Please do split this off into another thread.  Every owner of an OE2, and maybe the OE's, needs to know if their jacks are accidents waiting to happen (aluminum) or OTT stout steel ones.  This is a true life safety issue for those with aluminum.

Thank you Sir.

GJ

[topgun2]

GJ - 

You're welcome.

Bill

[topgun2]

Everyone - please note.

I have never heard of any of the aluminum brackets failing as long as they were welded properly in the first place.  The issue with the bracket in the photos above is that while there was a "spot" weld completed on the one side of the bracket, the finish weld that should have gone across the entire length of the bracket on that side - as it did on the reverse side - was never completed.  And that is the reason the bracket failed.

Those with aluminum brackets that are welded on both sides of the bracket should experience no issues.

Recalls and/or Service bulletins are only issued if there is a known problem that affects a number of trailers - not a one off.

Bill

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Those with aluminum brackets that are welded on both sides of the bracket should experience no issues.

Recalls and/or Service bulletins are only issued if there is a known problem that affects a number of trailers - not a one off.

All well, and good, but I believe that you cannot inspect the hidden side of the brackets without physically removing them, so additional hulls could have defective ones. So a Tech Bulletin is definitely needed to verify that they are correctly built.

If those bottom welds are visible with a borescope, or a light and a mirror, it would take minimal down time.

John Davies
Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Those with aluminum brackets that are welded on both sides of the bracket should experience no issues.

That's good to hear.  Thanks.  What's the definition of Recent Owners?

It would be nice to know what hulls have AL vs. Steel.  It would also save a lot of time (and worry) if we had an idea of the number of steel vs. AL.      

[Rivernerd]

16 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

It would be nice to know what hulls have AL vs. Steel.

If I owned an older Oliver, I would make it a priority to remove the hatch covers under both the curb side and street side beds to enable examination of the welds on the jack brackets.   Even without a close-up photo, I could see that the top welds joining the two pieces that form the "L" shape on my angle iron jack brackets are not just spot welded, but have such smooth, precise full welds as to suggest robot welding.  This is easily seen in the photo I posted above.  If I found such a jack bracket on an older trailer, I would rest easy.

If, instead, I found  two aluminum brackets, with just a spot weld joining the two pieces on top (as shown in the photos posted by Topgun 2 above), I would open a service ticket and ask Oliver to send me two of the cut and drilled steel angle iron pieces that could be swapped out for the aluminum ones.  Given my very positive experience with Oliver's Service Department, I expect they would send you the steel angle iron jack brackets at no cost.

[topgun2]

10 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

What's the definition of Recent Owners?

I do not specifically know - however, as I said above, I believe that Oliver changed from aluminum to steel brackets in 2018 or so.  Certainly, it is easy enough to inspect any particular trailer to ascertain if that trailer has steel of aluminum brackets.

11 hours ago, John E Davies said:

All well, and good, but I believe that you cannot inspect the hidden side of the brackets without physically removing them, so additional hulls could have defective ones. So a Tech Bulletin is definitely needed to verify that they are correctly built.

If those bottom welds are visible with a borescope, or a light and a mirror, it would take minimal down time.

All I can do is answer this question relative to the brackets that are on my Oliver.  For BOTH rear brackets it is easy to see that they are aluminum AND for BOTH brackets it is easy to see that the welds on both sides of the bracket extends to close to the ends of the bracket.  No borescope or light or mirror is needed.

10 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

I expect they would send you the steel angle iron jack brackets at no cost.

I can tell you that this is exactly what Oliver Service did for this owner.  I can also tell you that I was told that Oliver Service inspected all "completed" brackets in the parts bins and all brackets on any trailer on the production line with no additional brackets being found that were not welded properly.

10 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

If I owned an older Oliver, I would make it a priority to remove the hatch covers under both the curb side and street side beds to enable examination of the welds on the jack brackets. 

Indeed, in reading this thread, I'd certainly take a look at my rear brackets - just to make sure - "trust but verify" (The phrase became internationally known in English after Suzanne Massie, an American scholar, taught it to Ronald Reagan, then president of the United States, the latter of whom used it on several occasions in the context of nuclear disarmament discussions with the Soviet Union.)

This is particularly true given that it appears that there just may have been two instances (that we know of) that had failures of this nature - even though no pictures of the bracket failure that started this thread have been given.

 

[Frank C]

On 2/8/2023 at 12:49 PM, topgun2 said:

And, I'd still like to see pictures of the one(s) mentioned above that broke.

Bill

 

 

 

 

I never said the welds broke on my jack mounts.  I just said I didn’t trust them for lifting the trailer completely because they are small welds and I don’t trust them for lifting ~ 1/2 the trailer weight when I’m working on the trailer.  Mine have the steel angle channel brackets.  Next time I have the access hatches open I’ll take a picture.  

 

 

[topgun2]

9 minutes ago, Frank C said:

I never said the welds broke on my jack mounts.

That's great to hear!

So, now we are back down to a single instance - that I know of.

Bill

[Rivernerd]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:52 AM, Frank C said:

After seeing how tiny the welds are on the rear jack mounting brackets, I don’t trust them for anything other than leveling the trailer at a campsite.

Frank C :

The sentence quoted above is what started this very informative thread. 

As noted in my posts above, the welds holding the two pieces of angle steel together that form the L brackets on my rear jack brackets could not be stronger.  They are anything but "tiny."  They are so perfect I believe they were welded using a robot.  See attached close-up photo.

Are you referring to the welds that connect the cylindrical jack housing to the flat vertical bracket, which, in turn, is bolted to the L bracket to secure the jack assembly to the trailer frame?  One of these welds is visible (although a bit out of focus--my apologies) in the second close-up photo below.

[BBL]

On 2/5/2023 at 6:52 AM, Frank C said:

I don’t trust them for anything other than leveling the trailer at a campsite.

Question:  Are people using these Jack to “level” their trailer at a campsite?  It was my understanding that these were “stabilizer jacks” NOT “Leveling Jacks”.  The sales and service team say to never use them to level your trailer. You just drop them after your trailer is leveled using blocks and they help to take the bounce out of the trailer.

We are on-schedule to pick up on 3/8 and very much looking forward to it finally being here.

Thanks - Brian

[Frank C]

45 minutes ago, Brian and Brandelyne said:

Question:  Are people using these Jack to “level” their trailer at a campsite?  It was my understanding that these were “stabilizer jacks” NOT “Leveling Jacks”.  The sales and service team say to never use them to level your trailer. You just drop them after your trailer is leveled using blocks and they help to take the bounce out of the trailer.

We are on-schedule to pick up on 3/8 and very much looking forward to it finally being here.

Thanks - Brian

For a degree or less of side to side leveling I’ll just use the jacks.  For any more I use the Lego block style leveling blocks under tires on the low side to get it mostly level and then the jacks to stabilize and fine tune the side to side leveling. 

[topgun2]

B & B - 

What you have heard is correct - these jacks are supposed to be used only for stabilization NOT for leveling.

Perhaps your confusion comes from the fact that at one time (pre 2018 or 2019) Oliver actually made note of the fact that these jacks could lift one side of the trailer at a time.  Therefore, they could be used for leveling, and/or other things like changing a tire.  Certainly the jacks are strong enough to do just that, but, given other possible things going wrong - think twisted frame, cracked fiberglass, collapsing jack tube due to torque and even the possibility of lawyers getting involved with potential liability issues, Oliver now advises to only use these jacks for stabilization.  Having said all this, there are still a number of owners that continue to use these jacks for things like changing tires in an emergency, and, lifting the side to the trailer in order to place more substantial supports for jobs like wheel bearing maintenance, etc.

Bill

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

They are so perfect I believe they were welded using a robot.

Are you sure that this steel not simply been bent and/or molded/extruded in this manner versus "welded"?

I've never examined one of these steel brackets closely, but, I always thought that they were simply reasonably heavy "L" channel.

Bill

[Geronimo John]

5 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Certainly, it is easy enough to inspect any particular trailer to ascertain if that trailer has steel of aluminum brackets.

True if you are not 4,000 miles cross most of CONUS and an ocean away.  🙂

5 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I believe that Oliver changed from aluminum to steel brackets in 2018 or so. 

Yes, I saw that...I'm a 2018 owner.  Hence my concern.   And yes inspection of the brackets will be on my list of inspections shortly after arrival.  However knowing in advance if hull 342 has aluminum brackets could allow me to get the parts in hand for use before I start my long 2023 Summer Tour where such efforts become more difficult to accomplish and the need for functioning jacks becomes very important while boondocking out west in the mountains where camp sites are often not real level.

 

3 hours ago, Rivernerd said:

After seeing how tiny the welds are on the rear jack mounting brackets, I don’t trust them for anything other than leveling the trailer at a campsite.

I agree fully.  Being a "Safety John", I would also insert the words "Very Level" in front of campsite.    

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, topgun2 said:

the fact that at one time (pre 2018 or 2019) Oliver actually made note of the fact that these jacks could lift one side of the trailer at a time.  Therefore, they could be used for leveling, and/or other things like changing a tire.  Certainly the jacks are strong enough to do just that, but, given other possible things going wrong -

As always, you are a great advocate and tell it like it is.  I appreciate your perspectives on this topic and many others as well. 

That said, as one of "those owners", I do in the right circumstances use my jacks to level and service Ollie axles.  But I never do so when not on asphalt/concrete that is quite  level.  For soft ground I carry a milk crate full of 2" X 6" blocks for tire/ground leveling first.  For service, I have a F-150 jack and jack stands that become support after I have gotten Ollie's tires off my level "Hard Stand".  Point is that under the right circumstances, my risk assessment when using backup support stands and blocking, is minimal and mine to be assumed. 

To be clear, my right circumstances does not include a seismic zone or a wind unstable location (Such as the emergency lane just a few feet from 18 wheelers and Greyhound busses wising by at 80 MPH).  That would be foolish even for this Hang Glider and Paraglider pilot.....