TUNDRA/OTT Talk...

[GraniteStaters]

We have a 2019 Ram 1500 and it came with air suspension.  It has 2 off settings, normal, Aero, and Exit.  It automatically adjusts to the weight of the tongue.  We also use the off road setting when we are at a dump station to tip the Ollie so we can drain the grey tank faster.  We also find that when we stay at HH or campsites where we stay hooked, we can level the trailer front to back very quickly.  The newer Ram have eliminated the 5 settings in favor of just 3, but still auto levels the TV.

[Geronimo John]

On 5/27/2023 at 7:51 AM, rideandfly said:

We have towed Ollie with the Toyota 5.7L V-8 and 3.5L twin turbo engines. I like how the 3.5L V-6 engine develops maximum torque at a lower RPM compared to the 5.7L V-8 engine. Our 3.5L powered Tundra gets better MPG towing and not towing, too.

I have had the same experiences with the Toyota V-8's and 3.5 twin turbo's.  The new twin turbo's are amazing.  GREAT fuel economy when not towing.  Good fuel economy towing IF you keep your foot out of the turbo's.  I typically get 13+ to 14 MPG running 65 MPH on the interstates.  But if I get in a hurry and start seeing much turbo boost on the gauges, the MPG drops off at what seems to be an exponential decline.  

It would be interesting to see a side by side TFL test of the Ford 350 vs 3.5  Ecoboost and the Toyota 5.7 and the 3.5 Twin turbo with the same loads running a mixed flat land/mountain course.  Not to compare the Ford/Toyota, but rather their respective V8 vs TT V6's towing 7,000 horse trailers.  

JPR NOTE:  Why a 7,000 pound horse trailer?  I think that combination with less frontal surface area, but more weight would be a nice match for our OE2's with better aero and less weight.  Just a SWAG on my part.  OR maybe OTT could loan TFL Two Ollies for advertisement purposes!  

 

GJ

[rideandfly]

4 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

It would be interesting to see a side by side TFL test of the Ford 350 vs 3.5  Ecoboost and the Toyota 5.7 and the 3.5 Twin turbo with the same loads running a mixed flat land/mountain course.  Not to compare the Ford/Toyota, but rather their respective V8 vs TT V6's towing 7,000 horse trailers. 

GJ

Believe the Ford & Toyota turbo V-6 powerplants and the Toyota 5.7L V-8 are all fine engines. Before buying a new pickup, always checked out TFL videos on that vehicle, if available.

Speaking of frontal area/drag, used to tow a 2,000 pound aerodynamic brick (SOB) travel trailer and could only get 13MPG with a 4.0L Frontier in the lower 48. Towed Ollie home from MO to NC with the same Frontier after we purchased Ollie and had to check actual fuel consumption twice to believe we were getting slightly over 15MPG with a 4900 pound Ollie.

Personally don't tow like TFL does, but they present real world scenarios, that some may experience. I slow down for steep grades, even if power is available to maintain the speed limit,  to increase MPG and decrease overall drivetrain operation temps.

Searched for a while towing Ollie with the 2022 Tundra for the right combination of RPM/gear to find what I believe to be a good combination.  Maximum torque of the 3.4L twin turbo engine is 2400RPM, found 2150RPM in 7th gear (10 speed transmission) with cruise control on yielded 61MPH (GPS) and over 15MPG in hilly NC/TN areas.

Toyota Tundra's 5.7L: Normally aspirated V-8, 381 hp @ 5,600 rpm and 401 lb.-ft @ 3,600 rpm

Toyota Tundra's 3.4L TT: 3.4L Twin-Turbo V6, 389 hp @ 5200 rpm, 479 lb.-ft. @ 2400 rpm

[Geronimo John]

On 5/30/2023 at 9:14 AM, rideandfly said:

Searched for a while towing Ollie with the 2022 Tundra for the right combination of RPM/gear to find what I believe to be a good combination.  Maximum torque of the 3.4L twin turbo engine is 2400RPM, found 2150RPM in 7th gear (10 speed transmission) with cruise control on yielded 61MPH (GPS) and over 15MPG in hilly NC/TN areas.

With the twin turbo and ten speed transmissions, obtainable MPG is substantually determined by wind, grade and speed.  The first two you can't change as they are what they are on any given day.   So for a given day and highway, that pretty much means you can  control only your speed.  So picking a speed you want to run you can then play with the transmission gear limit seetting.  I have done that enough on the interstates to know that any velocity under about 75 I lock out gears 9 and 10.  If almost always keep my speed to 66 MPG or under,  Doing so, I do pretty good on the MPG. 

At least until I get into Wyoming, where on most days, if you are not running well over that, you are the rock in the stream.  It is there that I see that exponential rate of fuel burn.....

GJ

[rideandfly]

John,

All of my testing was under 65MPH towing Ollie. When we pass through WY, will bump it up to 8th gear.

Initially had to work hard with throttle control using 7th, 8th, & 9th not using cruise control. Found using 7th gear @ 2150 RPM & 61MPH with cruise control on was a more pleasant ride with better average MPG in TN & NC hill country.

[Geronimo John]

I'll try that out this summer!

GJ

[MAX Burner]

8 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Found using 7th gear @ 2150 RPM & 61MPH with cruise control on was a more pleasant ride with better average MPG in TN & NC hill country.

We're looking forward to trying out manual shifting at altitude on our upcoming trip to Hopewell Lake in northern NM.  The last half of the trip is a 75-mile run above 6k'MSL up to the campground at 9.8k'.  I'm thinking keeping the RPMs above 2100-2000 in the highest possible gear might be a starting point to determine best MPG.  Thoughts?

[rideandfly]

My experimenting has been east of the Mississippi with the 2022 Tundra so far. Very interested to learn how the Tundra’s twin turbo V-6 performs up to 10,000 msl.  Look forward to hearing about that!  

With a 5% grade found 6th gear and 55mph to work, if I remember correctly rpm was around 2150. Passing some 18 wheel trucks. Towed Ollie up 7% & 8% grades so far.

Like to experiment with different rpm/gear settings for different % grades. Never try to maintain speed limit while towing up grades. Just find a rpm/gear combination up to maximum torque rpm. Don’t want to overheat drivetrain components by keeping up with automobile traffic towing up grades.

Found it took too much throttle management seeking the highest gear causing transmission hunting instead of going with a little higher rpm lower gear combination up to maximum torque rpm of 2400.

Believe the new Hybrid Tundra is a towing beast up grades, but have not driven one, yet! 🙂

[Tom and Doreen]

I recently bought a Scan Guage lll which displays engine data in real time including various temperatures and also indicates when the torque converter is "locked" which should help in determining the correct gear for the condition and keep transmission temperatures lower.  I haven't taken it on a long trip as yet but so far it seems to be helpful.  

Not a big deal but I'm somewhat disappointed with the relatively mild engine breaking capability that the truck has which could place more burden on the braking system on steep / long down hill runs. It hasn't been a problem so far out east here but could be more of a concern out west. Has anyone had experience with that issue out west? 

[Geronimo John]

14 hours ago, rideandfly said:

Believe the new Hybrid Tundra is a towing beast up grades, but have not driven one, yet!

On interstate highway steep sections The Beast will go as fast as I want to pay for fuel.  No exceptions.

At Buffalo Mountain in Oklahoma, I drag Ollie up or down a somewhat improved gravel fire road four times a summer.  It is an 8 mile trek with grades 7 - 11% with a rough section at 13%.  When transversing steep grades on gravel at 13%, I am running slow, 4X4 low range center transfer case, with my rear locking diff engaged.  I use transmission in manual mode and use gears 1, 2 or 3 depending on grade and road condition.  I keep the RPM's at about 2800 to facilitate cooling of the engine, tranny and turbos.  Being able to lock everything up and taking it slow has proven to be zero worries.

GJ

[Geronimo John]

13 hours ago, Tom and Doreen said:

I recently bought a Scan Guage lll which displays engine data in real time including various temperatures

Having an OBD reader opens up a lot of different settings that the MFG knows about but may not make available on your trim level.  Many of those options are actually available for the owner with such a scanner.  For my 2019 F-150 they include:

• Bambi Mode
• Transmission Temp Display in degrees F above the idiot light
• Disable Auto Start/Stop
• Turn off double honk when leaving the truck with keys in it... like hooking up Ollie

Toyota likely has many such options that may improve your truck suites your preferences.  Recommend you search the Toyota Forum for your truck's generation.  For sure will not improve the engine braking vs a big block V-8, but some of those minor irritations can for sure be fixed easily.

GJ

 

[Tom and Doreen]

9 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

...Toyota likely has many such options that may improve your truck suites your preferences.  Recommend you search the Toyota Forum for your truck's generation.  For sure will not improve the engine braking vs a big block V-8, but some of those minor irritations can for sure be fixed easily.

GJ

 

Hi John, yes there are quite a few devices available with regard to changing engine / operating parameters but unfortunately most require both a hardware purchase and a software subscription these days.  The subscription business marketing model seems to be proliferating through everything these days including access to service manuals; remember the days when you could buy a OEM service manual outright and hold it in your hands??? Luckily I'm pretty happy with the way the truck is setup, except for the fact that I'll have to pay a subscription fee for a few of the 'extras' when the grace period ends which I likely won't do. 

~Tom~

[MAX Burner]

 So, we went with the AirLift Kit.

Spent most of yesterday afternoon installing a set of airbags on the Tundra...  Researching Firestone, Torque, Rough Country, ReadyAir, and a couple others it came down to performance, stability ratings, guarantee, and price point.  Firestone Ride-Rite and Air Lift Load Lifter 5000 were the toss-up.  The various limited lifetime guarantees were mind numbing to sift through, but that said, the Air Lift seemed slightly better than most.  The internal jounce in the Air Lift was comparable to (if not a bit beefy-er) than Firestone's.  Price point - about the same.  $450-ish.  The Air Lift kit won the decision.  We've done business with e-Trailer over the years and decided to stick with a known entity - slightly more $'s but worth it for the customer relations.

Safety-chocked front wheels, floor-jacked the Tundra at rear differential, safety-jacked, removed rear wheels and prepped for the install at noon yesterday.  3+ hours later - done.  Air Lift install procedures are 5 stars!  Custom description and color photos for the 2022 Toyota installation - absolutely 100% correct and detailed in all regard.  FYI, we assembled the port/starboard bag assemblies the afternoon before to prep for yesterdays drill.

The factory jounce assembly is removed and no longer required when installing any air bag kit.  It was interesting to discover that our factory jounce actually hit the top of the axle recently by observing that some of the road debris had been rubbed off by it!  Hmmm...

Once safety-jacked, (used frame points fore and aft of rear axle on both sides) with 2 jack stands on either side, lowered floor jack positioned under the rear diff to make enough room between frame/axle so air bag assemblies could be correctly positioned.

Bolt-on procedures went smoothly without issue.  The Air Lift Kit frame brackets were used to relocate hydraulic brake line mounts so as to keep them free yet stabilized which we thought was a brilliant feature.

We liked the Schrader valve mounting position that another Forum member used which was the two upper license plate screw holes - but our truck's configuration couldn't accommodate that option.  Decided to locate the individual port/stbd valves just above the license plate mount to be somewhat "out-of-sight" but still easily accessible for airbag inflation/deflation.  

Routed the 5-foot air lines from valves to the bags up and away from exhaust heat areas and cable-tied accordingly.  Connected lines with "PEX-like" push-in fittings on top of airbags.  We sprayed the air line connection at the bags with soapy water checking for leaks - no bubbles!  Inflated each bag to 45psi after completing the installation as part of the leak-test process.  Re-checked the system this morning - all good.  Will be headed into town later today for a test ride - I'm thinking running the bags at 25psi for the first ride attempt.  Will report back regarding ride "feel".  Below pic shows truck bed height at 45psi, FYI:

We are expecting better stability, less jouncing, and an overall longer lasting suspension.  Realizing that air bags DO NOT change cargo capacity in any way, the benefits of airbags, such as eliminating "sag" and possibly better braking, should meet our driving/towing characteristics.

Cheers!

[rideandfly]

Great description, photos, and information for airbag options! If I remember correctly, 20 PSI worked well for our 2016 Tundra/Ollie rig. We have an actual tongue weight of 480 pounds.

[SeaDawg]

24 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

Great description, photos, and information for airbag options! If I remember correctly, 20 PSI worked well for our 2016 Tundra/Ollie rig. We have an actual tongue weight of 480 pounds.

That's really low, from what I've read.

I know you have done mods to keep weights down.

I'd make sure the tongue weight is at least 10 per cent. Likely good, with your mods.

Safe travels. 

[rideandfly]

1 hour ago, SeaDawg said:

That's really low, from what I've read.

I know you have done mods to keep weights down.

I'd make sure the tongue weight is at least 10 per cent. Likely good, with your mods.

Safe travels. 

Yep, it’s light. We have small propane bottles and the Toyota Operator’s Manual’s tongue weight range for 2022 Tundra is 9% to 11% of the trailer’s weight. Our ready to camp weight is around 4950 pounds with 480 pound tongue weight, between 9% & 10%. 

 

[SeaDawg]

5 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

Yep, it’s light. We have small propane bottles and the Toyota Operator’s Manual’s tongue weight range for 2022 Tundra is 9% to 11% of the trailer’s weight. Our ready to camp weight is around 4950 pounds with 480 pound tongue weight, between 9% & 10%. 

 

Awesome.  I know you always do your homework. 

I  want to make sure others do, too. 

[rideandfly]

14 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

Awesome.  I know you always do your homework. 

I  want to make sure others do, too. 

You’re right, always need to be looking at the numbers.

The above weight is with empty black, grey, and fresh water tanks with full 6 gallon hot water heater tank. In the winter when we have a empty hot water heater Ollie’s weight is around 4900 pounds. 9% to 11% tongue weight is for conventional trailer towing.