DC-DC Charger Install

[rideadeuce]

I don't know enough to really answer your question but what the deciding factor for me was that Victron stated somewhere that the non-isolated version will work for most (99%) of applications. Maybe @MAX Burner will have some input after having had some experience using it. 

[jd1923]

13 hours ago, Galway Girl said:

A simple way to connect the new DC charging lead, using a standard (larger) lug, would be to merely double up on the battery lead on the far right in this picture. There are enough threads on the bolt, and you have a direct connection without going through the bus and any resistance it may cause.

[MAX Burner]

On 5/20/2024 at 6:36 PM, rideadeuce said:

Maybe @MAX Burner will have some input after having had some experience using it. 

The Victron 12/12vDC charger totally meets our camping style and needs...  When departing after boon docking for a few days during overcast weather - we know that our SOC will be at 100% within a few hours, so we'll start with a "full deck of BB cards" at the next destination.  As y'all know, the "non-isolated" version will require installation of a dedicated negative cable from the TV battery/alternator to the rear bumper connection then continue with a thru-hull penetration to the Smart Shunt bus bar.

FYI, (knocking on wood) we're 3,000+ miles into an 18-day trip and the Victron suite has performed flawlessly.  Glad to hear at LGSP that OTT is considering Victron as an optional upgrade - good stuff along with Renogy, Blue Sea Systems, and others.

Cheers!

Edited May 23 by MAX Burner

[Geronimo John]

5 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

 As y'all know, the "non-isolated" version will require installation of a dedicated negative cable

I am thinking that it is a wise idea to install a negative regardless of which Victron 12-12 30 you purchase.  

Why:  One way or another the rated power of the DC - DC charger will be flowing from the TV battery to the Ollie batteries.  With my clamp on amp meter, tests with a pair of 4 AWG wires for the pathway, I see 100% flowing via the Positive, and about 70% flowing via the Negative cable.  So, the rest, 30%, is flowing via  the frame/Andeson Chains, and Bulldog to the frame. 

Without the Negative cable "home run", all of it would be going thru the frame via the Bulldog, greased balls and Anderson chains ending up at the Battery Cable for the TV.   The Battery Cable may or may not be sized for the additional load.  But for sure, the series of resistance connections on that path would be a concern.

With a clamp on amp meter and our 712 Smart, we can learn a lot.  Kind of fun exercise as well.

GJ  

[rideadeuce]

Curious to what others with the Orion XS 50 amp 12/12 installed are using for their charge settings and engine shutoff settings. 

I have mine wired with the TV battery negative to my negative bus which goes to chassis ground and house Epoch battery negative. The positive IN is obviously from TV using 4 awg wire. Orion OUT goes to hot bus bar in rear. 

My voltage number IN/OUT are fine but the Amps are staying low between 7-11 maybe 14 for a bit on the highway yesterday. Just trying to problem solve. 

Used 4 AWG for all connections. 2 60 amp manual breakers  

Thinking about running hot ORION OUT to main pos bus in trailer instead of the rear one and taking neg directly to main chassis ground from TV battery and Orion instead of using neg busbar.

Any thoughts  @MAX Burner what kind of numbers are you seeing on your trip?

Best,

Mike

[Ronbrink]

3 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

Thinking about running hot ORION OUT to main pos bus in trailer instead of the rear one and taking neg directly to main chassis ground from TV battery and Orion instead of using neg busbar.

Running a dedicated 4 AWG ground wire directly from the TV’s battery to the rear bumper Anderson port, then continue the run of same size cable directly to the DC-DC would likely solve your problem. 

Edited June 8 by Ronbrink

[rideadeuce]

2 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

Running a dedicated 4 AWG ground wire directly from the TV’s battery to the rear bumper Anderson port, then continue the run of same size cable directly to the DC-DC would likely solve your problem. 

That makes sense. I will give it a try!

 

[rideadeuce]

Voila!

Immediately went up to 31 amps at idle then settled down at around 14 amp. Voltage output went up from 13.5 to 13.9 as set. @Ronbrink Thanks again. About to head out on the road to do a test run to see how well I can monitor it remotely. 

Edited June 8 by rideadeuce

[rideadeuce]

So went out for lunch and the Orion seemed to be maxing out at around 15 amps. Still double than what I was getting yesterday. The cool thing is I figured out how to remotely monitor the Orion through the Ekrano WIFI instead of the online VRM which is hard to see what exactly each device is doing. But if I go to the Victron Connect app and go to VRM => devices. Each device shows up individually through the Ekrano display, which is nice for monitoring while traveling down the road. The bluetooth direct connect does not work for me in TV, just out of range while driving. 

I wonder if the Epoch battery BMS which is controlling the charging may be limited charging?

2016 Tundra's 150 amp alternator may be getting tired?

Mike

Edited June 8 by rideadeuce

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

I wonder if the Epoc BMS which is controlling charging may be limited charging? 2016 Tundra's 150 amp alternator may be getting tired? Mike

The BMS can limit, but note your MPPT solar charger is offering 33A, that's 48A total if I'm reading this right. 150A on the truck alternator is good number given it is in good condition, many are rated lower.

Try running your test again, with your batteries needing charge (<80% SOC) and your MPPT solar charger turned off. This will show what the Tundra alternator and DC-to-DC is capable.

[rideadeuce]

It was a good idea but unfortunately after testing with MPPT off no difference in results. Battery SOC 50%. I also tried turning off the Epoch BMS and changing some other settings to no avail. 

I know you had shown some interest in the EPOCH batteries. This link has some helpful insight to their Pros and Cons. I still think they are great but there are some things you need to know about them. I am still using the Victron comms.

Link: https://panbo.com/update-epochs-460ah-battery-what-weve-learned/

 

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

I know you had shown some interest in the EPOCH batteries. This link has some helpful insight to their Pros and Cons...

Thanks for the article link. It went back to the Victron SmartShunt, gotta love it! Change your charge settings to 13.9 and 13.4 as stated. This makes total sense yet blows many LiFePO4 manufacturer's recommendations (grain of salt).

Many people leave maintenance chargers on 24x7, not a good idea IMHO. I connect a charger only when needed, and I keep shore power off unless we need to run AC. I'll trust our old-school Blue Sky SC, never see voltage over 14V with it on alone. Don't trust RV shore power/120V chargers or inverter/chargers either when connected fulltime and more so for storage. Just don't do it.

Recently I'm more interested in Epoch without the Victron Comms. Was thinking of two of these 300AH batteries to start and perhaps a 3rd or 4th later with some installation wizardry (that is a word, right GJ?). There is room in the bay for a 3rd with a tray mod and maybe room in the basement for another one to two! This could add up to 900AH, 1200AH, OMG 1500AH! ~🤣 

Too bad the 2x 460AH Epochs w/o Victron Comms will not fit no matter what you do. 600AH at 80% = 480AH (conservative estimate with a 20% safety factor) is more than 2x what I have today in 450AH LA at 50% = 225AH (2.13 more available AH). 

I believe you made the right choice Mike. Who has more LiFePO4 AHs than you in an Oliver (nobody)! If they run another Black Friday sale at an additional 15% off, you can source 600AH OTD under $2,000, a nice number for a LiFePO4 upgrade and I have all the 4/1 cable, lugs and tools I need. I see these in my future, look for my upgrade TBD: 12V 300Ah Heated & Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery - Epoch Essentials (epochbatteries.com)

[rideadeuce]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

There is room in the bay for a 3rd with a tray mod and maybe room in the basement for another one to two!

I looked into this as well definitely an option with the LiFePO4 batteries. 

[MAX Burner]

On 6/8/2024 at 5:41 AM, rideadeuce said:

Any thoughts  @MAX Burner what kind of numbers are you seeing on your trip?

Sorry for the delayed response, I missed this post somehow...  We're seeing 26 - 28.5A (max so far) from the Orion unit with SOCs in the mid-60% range.  The 50A model would be nice, we would've probably got one, but they weren't available yet when I dropped the hammer on getting our 30A unit.