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After driving 2,500+ miles from Oregon, we are in Linden tonight . . . . picking up #699 - "Pearl" in the morning. Stay tuned for photos!

Fritz - Since our Forum is not monitored at all times by the staff at Oliver, you might want to simply copy your post above and submit it here. I'd suggest that you direct the message to either Scott Oliver and/or Rodney Lomax. Bill

The table was sourced from Battleborn, but was published on this website.

The other member could be using an older Zamp controller that does not support Lithium. I'm using the BMS on the LifeBlue's - along with the 30 Amp Zamp controller on board. Not sure how they interact, but I assume not all that well since there's a solar cutoff provided to protect against overcharging or keeping the Lithiums "topped off" - up to the owner to keep an eye on the batteries and cut off when necessary. The app is OK at best - bare bones - it tells the level of charge, the status (charging, standby or discharging), the total capacity of whichever battery you are linked to, the temperature, the discharge / charge rate (amps) along with the battery voltage. I think it would be a lot better if it would have data collection and trending along with monitoring/notifications. It's also a pretty weak bluetooth signal - I lose it regularly and can only sporadically get it while in my truck.

There is still much to be said for the Lithium Pro Package, largely because of the lithium batteries themselves. But with recent threads about solar controllers, solar charging levels, DC to DC converters, and options for increasing current flow from tow vehicles, I'm inclined to think there are at least 2 relatively low-cost improvements that would make the Lithium package more much useful, efficient, and appealing. The first is to use a MPPT charge controller instead of a PWM controller. There doesn't seem to be a substantial cost difference, and the MPPT will allow batteries to reach 100% charge from solar. The second is to install a heavier gauge wire during initial construction from the hitch area to the batteries (with dedicated fuse) that can be used by a later, owner-installed charging system from the tow vehicle. Such a system would allow greater charge rates from the tow vehicle than is possible through the 7-pin connector. If the AC is to be run for short periods of time from batteries (e.g., for 15 minutes at a rest stop), it would be very nice to return portion of the battery charge during 2-3 hours subsequent driving (at least more than is possible through the 7-pin connector). A dedicated owner-installed heavy-gauge wire from TV battery (as LifeBlue has suggested) to the TV hitch is part of the solution; a matching cable from the hitch area to the trailer-battery area is another part (a DC to DC converter could also be installed later by an owner, if desired, but the harder part seems to be installing a heavier-gauge charge wire from the trailer hitch to the battery area). In fact, for those opting for the Pro package, a 12V charging port for connection to the tow vehicle may be more useful than the optional 30-amp connection near the propane tanks. Such a 12V connection could also be used for additional TV-mounted solar panels (with separate controller). I can only imagine that such vehicle-based charging will become more popular with hybrid and electric pickups. It seems both of these relatively low-cost improvements would make the Pro Package much more useful, allowing short-term use of the AC without needing to hook up a generator or plug into shore power to charge batteries afterwards (which kind of defeats the purpose of the beefier batteries, inverter, etc. Perhaps Oliver would be willing to weigh in on the feasibility of these changes for those of us in line for a 2021 trailer. And one other non-solar (but wiring-related) suggestion: might it be possible to wire one exterior light (e.g., the one by the door) separate from the others? This would provide lighting to enter or exit the trailer at night without needing to light up the entire campsite. Several others have commented on this; I think it would be a popular improvement. To Oliver: thank you for your dedication to thoughtful engineering and quality builds, and for the opportunity to have these community-wide discussions. My hope is that these suggestions could make an already stellar product even more so.

We are headed home, via I-40, with our new Elite II, "Pearl"; we are still dewinterized. During our two nights spent at David Crockett SP nighttime temps were in the mid to high 20's; daytime, in the 50's. Using the furnace the first night (and burning a fair amount of propane), the basement/utility area stayed in the mid forties. The second night (not quite as cold), we did not run the furnace, but kept and electric heater running and the basement access door (in the nightstand) open. Again, basement/utility area stayed mid forties. Now we are headed to the higher elevations of New Mexico and Arizona, where night temps are predicted in the 20's (Flagstaff in the teens, but we don't plan to stop overnight there). Jason, at Oliver, says the highest danger of freezing something is while on the road. From your experience in this circumstance, at what daytime temp should we decide to Winterize? It will be mostly in the 50's, and no lower than mid 40's. Another question: how do you manage dumping the fresh water tank to winterize while traveling? Once winterized, we won't dewinterize until we get home. We were so lucky going to Tennessee via I-80. Only one mild snow shower, but a lot of wind. On the return trip, there doesn't appear to be any serious snow/freezing travel conditions, although we may have to delay going from Nevada to Oregon via our preferred route, which is Hwy 365 - Reno to Susanville.

Ask for Chantal Hershberger. She's the person I spoke to, and she knew immediately what I was asking about. My errors would clear just by turning the unit off and on. I never had to disconnect power or anything.

Exactly. Here’s a chart from a 30 minute trip I just made. This is from the battery monitor on an AGM house battery that I have under the back seat of my truck. It’s connected to the starter battery with 2 awg cables and a Victron Cyrix smart relay. I have a 12 volt fridge attached to the house battery, which is the amperage load that you see on the chart. I had auto start/stop disengaged. In this case, I had just made another short highway trip that had already fully charged my start battery, so you don’t see a prolonged period at 14.6+ volts are the start. The house battery was at about 85%. You can see that the voltage goes into the 14’s for just a brief period before settling in at 12.8 or so. The spikes at the beginning of the drive are in stop-go traffic. (The truck has electric assist on the brakes so those are the spikes.) You’ll see that it evens out for a bit once I get in the highway, but then jumps suddenly to around 13.4 volts. That’s when I turned on my headlights. (BTW, that’s been a GM owners trick for a while to get their voltage up to a charging level.) So you can see that modern electrical systems only provide the voltage that the truck needs at any given time. They do this regardless of what other load you add to the system. Unfortunately, while I may be able to trick the system into providing 13.4 volts, that isn’t enough to charge lithiums, since I’d probably only see 13.2 or less at the battery. So yes, a B2B charger is absolutely needed.

I was referring to modern vehicles with complex electrical systems. Back feeding high voltage when the engine is not running may trigger fault codes or worse may be harmful.

Agree. I prefer a manual model. Seems like that should at least be an option.

It’s easy to sneak in with his lights off

Ok - old grumpy guy comment....... - I just don't understand the need of some folks who seem to need daylight - at night - and then leave them on all night. A few nice - mood inducing awning lights work well - but the stadiums - hmm. Therefore I try to stay as inconspicuous as possible with the lighting. I remember a pod of AS owners that all wanted their running lights on while parked in the CG - I guess its Christmas all year. Me being inconspicuous is not easy - by the way.

I've already inquired about getting a copy of the 2020 electrical diagrams - which I need for other things as well. Can other 2020 owners ask as well? The more that ask the more likely we will get something sooner.

Just a few thoughts. Have you actually gone out and measured the voltage of each individual battery? Have you checked all the battery terminals and made sure they are not corroded or loose? Are the lights dim? Will the tongue jack lift the trailer when plugged in vs not plugged in? I am not familiar with the current wiring layout, but I believe that the problem will turn out to be a connection issue. This one reason I've never been a fan of the Zamp system. What are the amps doing? With no shunt and no way to monitor anything other than volts, it's very difficult to tell what's going on.

I agree to a certain extent. Like I said above, I think they're still more of a niche product that work well for a smallish subset of owners. But that's all down to the cost. The advantages that Susan listed are real - hands down, they're better batteries. If they cost the same as AGM, no one would hesitate to buy them. But the cost is a big factor. I was able to justify mine because I bought my whole electrical system at day one, getting some discounts, the full tax credit, eliminating things from our Oliver order that we would have otherwise paid a good bit of money for, and deciding to forgo a generator. With all that, I spent an extra $1000 or so. To me, that was an easy call for what I got in return - which wasn't for just the batteries, but the extra solar and all the cool electronics. I also had the compressor fridge which was going to cost me extra amp hours, so the bump in battery capacity was more easily defendable. If I were thinking about it on an in-service trailer today - where I'd already bought AGM's, a generator & accessories, inverter, generator port, and was looking at a smaller or no tax credit, I don't know if it would be such an easy a choice. Even assuming that your current batteries are dead and have to be replaced, LFPs are still going to be $2,500 - $3000 more than just getting a new set of AGMs. For that money, you'll get roughly 1 ½ to 2 days of extra battery storage and a handful of extra goodies (which, let's face it, are nice to pad a list of advantages but on their own aren't really worth much). Is that worth the money? Maybe? It entirely depends on your priorities and how well your trailer has taken care of you so far. And it's that second part that's the key. I don't think that I've seen single post from anyone who's been disappointed at the battery life of their Elite II. Sure, people always want more, but the fact is that 200 usable amp hours is sufficient for the vast majority of owners. And for the times that it isn't, most people don't mind carrying a generator. It's maybe a different story for an Elite I owner, due to the limited battery space available - a much easier choice imo for them to opt for some LFPs. If I were looking at a new Ollie right now, and the LFP pro package, I'd probably pass. Not probably - I know that I'd pass, just because having done all the research and being comfortable that I can wire my own electrical, I'd want largely the same system I have now rather than what Oliver is offering. What Oliver is selling is fine, but I don't think it's the best, and for the same money you can get the best, provided you're willing and able to do the work yourself. The one thing I'd change, apart from getting a few updated components, would be that I'd probably go with Victron batteries today instead of Battleborns, just because the price of those has gone down and I wouldn't care so much about the issue I had at first where I thought I'd have to do my first trip using Oliver's electronics. Even then, I'd still have the issue of a somewhat undersized solar array relative to the increased battery capacity. So I'd probably want to spend more for a portable solar kit (and hope it doesn't get stolen), rewire my truck to charge from it (unlikely), or give in and get a generator. And I really don't see the advantage of having both LFPs and a generator. With a generator, you've made the primary advantage of the LFPs practically irrelevant. Maybe you'll have to use it less often, but the real pain of a generator is just having to carry it and its fuel around all the time. Plus you've paid $3000 more for batteries and then another $1000 for a generator that you're hoping not to use. How many times do you have to be able to go without a generator to add up to $3000 worth of convenience? To me, this is all very similar to the debate about compressor vs absorption fridges. No doubt, one is better than the other; but the lesser of the two is still fine. If you can choose the better without great cost or trouble, then do so. But if it's going to cost a lot of money or be a pain to retrofit, then I think justifying it is going to be entirely an exercise of exaggerating to yourself the advantages of the one and the disadvantages of the other. That, or be comfortable with the fact that you're doing it just because you want to. Which is fine - I have a number of those projects under my belt.