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There are many people that tow - very satisfactorily, with a modern 1/2 ton pick-up or similar vehicle, and I would guess all (most) use the Anderson WDH. It's a good set-up, but the sticky wicket is indeed the payload in many cases. The WDH doesn't change the brake systems ability to stop an overloaded vehicle, it may help redistribute the load rear to front, but that's hard to pin down. To say Oliver is less than honest on claimed dry weight, well, have at it. I give them more credit. Dealers don't determine payloads, GVWR, tow ratings or anything else, that's the responsibility of the OEM engineering groups in conjunction with industry standards. The data on an individual vehicles sticker is the rating for that vehicle, in most cases it trumps what's stated the in the owners manual, what some app on the web tells you, what the marketing folks say, and what a salesman tells you. Dealers will tell you whatever you want to hear, caveat emptor. Bottom line - follow the guidelines for your particular vehicle, if your happy, great. If your over weight, above the recommended capacities, and yet satisfied with the performance, that is your call. Everyone have a wonderful Holiday, be safe, have a great time.

2018 GMC 2500 4 wd, Duramax, stock. 14-18 mpg towing, up to 21 unloaded. Leer top, storage space is not an issue. Nor is payload or GVW, or towing capacity. Take what you want, fill it to the brim, and GO. Oliver EII, about 6500 pounds max, (Full water, propane, groceries, etc.,) truck caries about 300 lbs. of camping related extras, Kitchen sink stays home. .I think.. No need for WDH, the Oliver tows like it not there at every speed, any grade, and the best aspect is getting from here to there is just comfortable and easy as can be - amazing frankly. Mountains, plains, hot, cold, just put some diesel and some DEF in it and go, no worries. Other than initial purchase price, towing expense are in line with my former gas truck, but with so much better performance. I am very happy with my TV choice. Grade A with honors.. 27,000 miles to date - 15K of towing. Next.

I must admit, I am slowly, but surely opening up to the simple things in life - and camping. Great post .

Dave - Found this - supposed to be the standard they follow, Known as SAE J2807 and defined as “Performance requirements for determining tow-vehicle gross combination weight rating and trailer weight rating,” the standard measures a vehicle’s ability to safely tow by measuring braking distances, acceleration times, passing ability, grade-climbing ability, and physical load-carrying capability. http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/ Seems straightforward - right.... Somewhere in there payload must come into play

Dave, I won't try to determine how the engineering world at each manufacturer determines a vehicles payload. The max tow rating Olympics that go on each year are recalculations that go on by manipulating this and that piece of new data. Its the premier marketing tool for the truck market. Tires are an important part of the equation, as are tire pressures. Tires have weight ratings - thus the HD 10 ply on my 2500. Heck, many don't pay attention to the hitch components - I regularly see underrated parts in use, : my truck has a 21/2' receiver, yet has a reduction sleeve, of course the max tow ratings are for the 21/2' sleeve. I use the 2... You are free to put whatever new tire, air ride suspension, or tow gizmo you want, but if it doesn't meet the OEM spec, your taking the liability, not the Manufacturer. The vast majority of 1/2 ton trucks require a WDH for anything over 500LBS HW. That doesn't negate the improvements the new trucks have made TV usability. At some point physics trumps marketing desire. If I am incorrect - please ignore. RB

My comment was directed at the tire and load rating label - it references the VIN of the vehicle, as do most of the other build specific labels. Good luck in your search. Oh, and I hate it when I get an itch, it usually costs me $$$$. I've found sharing the itch early on with my wife seems to cure the need to scratch.

As has been pointed out in various other discussions, each vehicle has a payload rating based upon its unique configuration. What the marketing guys put out there, and what most sales people spout is usually just blather. Just knowing the tow rating is not enough (although each OEM seems to use max tow as THE selling point) , as you all mentioned, carrying people, fuel, etc., is important, and thus the legally stated payload label is what we must consult. You will notice the label also states tire data - which is part of the load rating. I would be highly suspicious if a dealer said the factory was willing to change this label. These labels are printed (are a part number), as are many other vehicle specific labels, when the vin is determined, and is a legal document for all intents and purposes. In fact I be willing to wager it will not happen. CTShort09 is on point with his calculation, although he left out fuel, but who's quibbling. My GMC 2500 has a stated payload of 2226 lbs. Given that, I do not worry about overload, 700 lbs. of tongue weight and I'm still good for 1500 pounds of "other". And I do not need, or use any type of WDH. "So while there is plenty of "TOW" in this Ram1500 there isn't plenty of Payload".... Good one CT... As an edit, my comments are in keeping with the legal end of things. As JD stated, one can overload these trucks and remain "safe" based upon real world conditions, but given a legal challenge, the engineers win, those folks determine the load ratings and are the last resource. We know who the legal engineers reference in a court proceeding.

Interesting, I never thought about the tire load ratings being that restrictive, esp. on the power wagon. So If you upgrade to the necessary load rated tires, how do you get a "legal" rating. (given our litigious culture). Safe range, vs, OEM stated range. I would love to know where RAM comes out on this, I would have thought the 2500 PW much more versatile here... My load rating is plenty high enough stock, so if I change tire to different load rating, my OEM sticker is void.....

Yes, John this is very controversial. Pedal power bikes were already increasingly being targeted on most trails and backcountry paths mostly due to erosion issues, and for some just to be punitive. With a 1 HP limit many would think that's not much, but if you consider the power to weight ratio, its comparative to a smaller fossil engine mc. I'm not sure where I fall on the issue, as an avid back country hiker, and a MTB'er I enjoy both, but I also support trail maintenance and reasonable use control. Given the advancement of this tech, I can see a 35 lbs., high power output Ebike, with full suspension - soon hitting the market, albeit at a high $$. WOW, now that would be fun, and destructive to most of the trail I frequent. I understand the vast majority of Ebike will be used in the traditional manor - but I'm positive they will become as intrusive as these e scooters that have taken over the sidewalks of some cities. Perhaps the local authorities will figure it out, but I doubt it. In the meantime, one would look fine strapped to the rear carrier of the Ollie. RB

That was a good deal JD. Although its a full blown suspension bike, it would be great for multi use. I'm still on the pedal power, but it would work for my wife and then the distance and elevation would not be an issue on our joint rides.

Patrick, I've spent a lot of time in my Oliver EII, I cannot remember ever hanging up on anything in the interior. Quite honestly, I'm extremely comfortable in the RV. You mentioned the AC - like Topgun, our favorite place is elevation - as the AC noise is just - loud. But its no different than any other RV with roof mounted AC. Space for two - If your worried about bumping into each other - you will just need to go look at one and spend time in it. My wife and I don't have an issue with space, but we are not normal - we get along fine, although we are both hard type A personalities. I've finally learned though - …….. Given your concerns, I'd guess the Oliver EII is not large enough - but unequivocally - it is the best RV of its size. I love my Oliver, and the factory support is the best in the industry - period. Good luck in your search. RB

In 35 degree conditions there was some condensation - nothing we worried about.

I believe Topgun is correct - mine is set up similar- although I don't use a satellite.

Thanks JD. No, it's not Amish built, its Russell built. It was my late summer/fall project. I had a crew pour/finish the concrete, I did the rest, much to the protest of most of my body parts. There are two interior spaces, one with a floor drain, set up as a work room, the other is a bathroom - shower, toilet, etc. I have not finished out the interior - may not - but it is plumbed for the future. There are two rv dump locations- south and east ends. So far the building is working out fine - considering it started out as just a covered "shed". I need to run the elec and h2o - I'm just waiting for the motivation...... It sets on a little over 18 acres, backs up to a lake. The place is our launching spot for adventures, and in a few years, will be a part time domicile. TN is very reasonable as a home base - taxes, cost of living, regulatory climate, etc. are hard to beat. Weather ain't bad either... RB

Just thought I'd post a pic of Ollie in its current home. I've still to run the electric and water to the building, thus the solar, and the solar works fine at keeping the charge up. The solar is a 45 watt cheap panel off the "site" mounted on a "hillbilly" portable stand, with a very versatile (cheap) battery tender controller managing everything. I use the same set-up to keep tractors and mowers charged during the down times. So far, after a few months, the batteries have remained fully charged.

For us, retired, or not - (I am, she has summer free) our usual MO is to get to where we are going- asap- and then explore from there. Living where we do - TN - our westerly trips mean use the interstates and such and just go - until we can't, stop, rest up, and go again till we reach the desired spot. 1000 mi days may not be the norm, but they have happened, 800 is a good - get there day..... And the other MO is to spend a great deal off the beaten path, taking the back roads and byways, to the next place - which often is not known until we discover it, or just stop at a decent (or not) spot on the path of our "general" direction. And that is the main reason the EV doesn't work for us in the current state. Towing at 60 mph - not on the big roads - 70 is the norm - if posted appropriately. I have caught my spouse doing 80, ( ok. I'm guilty too) problem is - the GMC/Oliver is as smooth at 80 as it is at 60.... fuel mileage is almost the same 60-70 range - 15mpg. And I realize some may be wary at anything above 60, I'm very comfortable here. Meals are predominantly on the go, or a short stop - the ollie is so versatile here. I don't know how long a charge takes, but 20 min is about our mean stop time. Last long trip included many <300 mi days - so here the EV may have been fine. Its just the lack of versatility overall in our use patterns that preclude EV towing. I Enjoy these discussions, I always learn something.

I liked the title - Yes -- the fellow does a great job on the video. It is clear - the tech has a ways to go for most real world towing needs. I'd wager a few $$ that within a few years we see a step change in the storage platforms - that's the current bottle neck in my mind. Maybe not - but given where the industry is currently - build out the infrastructure, bring down the cost, and improve the range/charge time - and EV hits mainstream with wide support. And us heavy duty TV folks can keep doing what we are doing - and drive the EV for everything else.

At least GM actually builds a truck - currently Atlis is a hope and a prayer. Interesting platform, versatile, with a lot of PT Barnum. If what they say is true, it would seem Elon would be doing it.... doesn't appear they have a proprietary technology, just some different engineering designs. There are 477 customers as of now - yet no actual operation, supply chain, and on, now this is early adoption... Honestly, as much grief as I give Tesla, they could do what Atlis is proposing and have production going fairly quickly - once the tech is developed - the 15 min charge,,,,, perhaps their idea of plug/play and banking them at stations is the 15 min claim. That would entail a huge infrastructure spend. I wonder why the industry hasn't developed a standard and worked towards this goal - probably same reason my Makita tools won't accept my Dewalt batteries, nor will they fit my Bosh chargers...…..

3 turtles with arthritis to be more accurate. It was a caveman attempt looking back.

As do I - As someone that actually built EV trucks (Commercially) - back when all we had were lead acid storage - I've nothing but respect for advancing the cause - and nowhere in my post did I mean to imply disrespect - in fact I said for me it would be stupid. But - If it seemed so, I apologize. Were Elon to design a truck platform that would work for me, that would be fine - but what has been presented is just not it. I don't see it as polarizing - simply a randy discussion of ideas and opinions. I'm not a luddite by any means - I was - attempting to use tech to do things way before it was feasible - try getting a commodore 64 to do some system control over the land lines - long before there was a WWW. SO moving on, I look forward to EV advancement, new storage platforms, reducing carbon use, (which means re investing in modern Nuclear) and perhaps a little more truth in advertising by the media. One can hope. RB

My niece, the city girl, while visiting the lake, wanted to know what all the noise was, I didn't hear anything, upon inquiry, it turned out it was - as she coined it -"nature noise"

All I can figure is I am just different - by a wide margin: Given the current map, I might as well just stay home. Double it in 5 years - same. How do you deal with the back roads, like the back side of My St Helens, heading to Rainier, up the Stewart-Cassiar Highway BC, or the backside of Telluride, been to or,,,, to any other path that is "less traveled" - you don't. And if I'm gonna stay in the bed of my truck, -- same. I still have all my great camping/backpacking gear- lots cheaper than my Oliver, and I can go - anywhere I want - well it will be me and the dog.... but that's another issue. The best thing about the Tesla - it is a look at what may be possible - currently you can't take it anywhere worth going--- in my world. I fully understand the gleeful appeal of the Tesla, but as an RV appliance, it is very restrictive. "Oh - I can go across country from supercharger to charger" - great, why would you want to, other than to make a statement. An app that tells you where to get a charge - half the time I don't get a cell signal, let alone data service. How many RV sized supercharger stations are out there : to some one else's point. I think the difference is - some people like to RV in town, close to all the comforts of home, and some like to get away a bit, and RV in more remote locations, and some, like me, bought an Oliver, because their spouse had grown weary of camping/backcountry camping in less than opulence and comfort. The Oliver is a great basecamp, I can still go to most places I desire, (or close by) without a lot of planning and reservations, or pain, and it keeps me married, and honestly, I like it also. But to say it is - today- an alternative for a RV TV, is just - well - early. Ok - I think its stupid - for my RV applications, and for the vast majority of those who venture away from civilization. I do not want to plan around where I can get a charge for my TV. For others - have at it. Less congestion in the back country. Pooh Pooh me, as you have others, we all have opinions, some more practical than others. Perhaps - I have the wrong definition of what RV means.. that would make all the difference here. Have fun out there.

While it is an interesting concept, discussions on the Tesla certainly brings out ideas that I find just not inline with how we use our Ollie, or travel about. Some of the strong opinions, just don't ring true either. For the vast majority of our exploring, fuel stations can be scarce, let alone charging stations. I didn't buy and outfit our Oliver to stay connected or within earshot of civilization. For those that rarely venture out into the wilderness, fine, a Tesla truck may work just fine, not in our case. I eschew planning, and having to travel based upon availability of a charge stations, locations, and range would absolutely ruin our experience. Never having to go to a gas station - off set by sitting around waiting for a charge, after you've spent how much time looking for a charge station??? Seems wrong to me. As JD stated- "This kind of extreme refueling/ range anxiety will not make for a relaxed vacation..... " To each his own, but until the infrastructure reaches outer back of beyond, I keep my dino powered TV. I am pretty sure I will have turned to dust before this happens.... RB

As stated above, I usually empty every day, not waiting until full. I try to use a waste station, but if not available, any out of the way spot works. I did the JD mod of sight holes to visually see urine level, that's a mod worth the time. In retrospect, the compost toilet has been a great choice. If I was to start camping for long stretches in remote places, I would consider a convert of the black tank to H2o storage. It is doable. As for the fridge, the OEM works "OK" but it has a hard time in hot weather, and on propane, likes to shut itself off every now and then. (its been bombproof on ac) I have an ARB portable with the Danfoss compressor, we use it for drinks and overflow. The thing is great, draws little current, and is bombproof. There is another owner on the site that has replaced his with a dc unit. His long term results are worth monitoring. RB

From my experience the urine tank is not an issue. Its easy to empty and replace. For me its not worth the effort to redirect. I did look at using the black water tank as a water storage, but as Overland commented, water has not been much of an issue. I carry a spare 8 gallon container in the truck, which has worked out well. I have repeatedly used it to transfer H2o into the trailer tank (it is very easy on the Oliver). If there was ONE thing I would change on the O it would be the 3 power source fridge - I'd go DC compressor- but until the current one really pisses me off or finally quits, it will stay. Next would be the jet engine on the roof called the ac. Urine tank never comes to mind. Happy Thanksgiving all.