Rivernerd

Although we don't take delivery on our Elite II until next summer, I considered how useful it would later be for boondocking when I recently purchased a dual fuel backup generator for home use. FWIW, I ended up buying a dual fuel 2kW Champion from the orange big box store online, for many of the same reasons you reference. I have tested it with propane, and it works well. Others on this forum have reported that the Champion 2kw is adequate to run the AC on an Ollie, with the Micro Air East Start installed. I would not be satisfied with the Alp 1kw unit because to obtain that same level of performance, I would have to buy and carry two of 'em, not one. Today, the Champion 2kw can be purchased for about $100 more than an Alp 1kw (which is running a Black Friday sale now). My Champion dual fuel 2kw weighs 39 lbs. empty. It emits about 60 db at the standard 20 feet, a bit louder than 1 Alp 1kw, but I doubt louder than 2 in parallel. So, two Alp 1kw units run in parallel cost several hundred $$$ more, and have a combined weight of 60 lbs. vs. 40 lbs. for roughly the same output as the Champion. I would not be interested in 2 Alp 1kw units at more than 1.5x the cost and the weight. What am I missing?

If the reported $25K quote for AGM to LiFePO4 upgrade is accurate, maybe Oliver is throwing out deliberately high bids because they really don't want the work? I expect that, like the manufacturing side, Oliver's Service Department is struggling to keep up with just regular service on the rapidly increasing number of Olivers now on the road. I had a similar experience recently serving as general contractor on the home we built in rural Idaho during a hot building economy. We got several outrageously high bids from potential roofing and drywall subcontractors that said to me: "O.k., we will make the drive and do your job, even though we are really busy "in town," if you are willing to pay enough to put my kids through college." In some cases I ended up doing the work myself because we were not willing to pay that extreme premium. But, we are planning to pay the premium for the Lithium Pro Package on our Elite II because we believe the economics of that factory upgrade make sense.

My wife and I are taking delivery of an Elite II next summer as well. We haven't yet been required to make a final commitment on upgrades, but we are leaning toward the Lithium Pro Package over the Solar Pro package. In response to an earlier, similar post inquiring whether to go with wet cell or AGM, I stated the reasons we have tentatively chosen the Lithium Pro Package. I have edited it to more specifically address your LIFePO4 vs. AGM query: "We are presently planning to spend the extra $$$$ on the Lithium Pro Package [over the Solar Pro Package], for many reasons: (1) we view it as "future proofing" (it's a lot easier to have the more robust 3kw inverter and wiring infrastructure installed during construction); (2) we hope to be able to run the AC with just our 2kw generator, which requires the Micro Air Easy Start [included in the Lithium Pro Package] (which is also much easier to install in the factory before the AC goes on the roof); (3) we want to be able to run the AC, albeit for only a short time, on the batteries; (4) LiFePO4 accepts a full charge much faster than lead/acid, and so is more efficiently recharged with solar; (5) 390Ah of LiFePO4 provides much more usable battery capacity than 400 Ah of [lead/acid/AGM batteries], because only about 50% of lead/acid capacity is usable before recharge compared to 85% with LiFePO4; (6) payload,and therefore trailer weight, is an issue with our 2019 Tundra 5.7L Double Cab tow vehicle, and LiFePO4 saves a couple hundred pounds vs. [AGM] and (7) the increased cost is offset to some extent by the 10-year probable life of LiFePO4 batteries." I will add with regard to the first point, future proofing, that we plan to own our Ollie for a couple of decades, and we believe that the price of LiFePO4 batteries vs. AGM will continue to drop over that time as lithium R&D costs are recovered. We do not plan to spend the additional $4400 for the 630 Ah Lithium Platinum Package because we believe 390 Ah will be enough. But, if, over time, we decide we really want more battery capacity, it will likely be less expensive later, and we can add it without having to also upgrade the inverter or any internal wiring. I expect you know you will likely get between 3 and 5 years of service from AGMs. So, over the probable 10-year life of the LiFePO4 batteries, you will be required to replace the AGMs at least once, maybe twice. Today, you must pay at least $800 for 400Ah of AGM capacity. And, I note you have purchased a Honda 2200i generator. If you plan to run the AC using that generator, you will still need to spend the extra $400 for the MicroAir Easy start if you don't opt for the Lithium Pro Package. So, over time and considering the cost of the MicroAir Easy Start, the "net" cost differential between the Solar Pro and Lithium Pro packages falls more in the $2400-$3100 range, not $4300. For these reasons, we are still planning to spend the extra on the Lithium Pro Package. Hope this helps with your decision.

I believe the drum brakes Oliver is currently installing are mounted on Dexter "Nev-R-Lube" axles. Dexter touts those axles as a "sealed cartridge bearing system," with a 5-year,100,000 mile warranty. So, even though I won't have to annually grease the 8 sets of wheel bearings on the Elite II I am committed to receive next year, I will plan to the pull all four drums annually to check the brake shoes. Thanks for the reminder! That said, I am with John Davies on this one. Having worked on many sets of both drum and disc brakes on my vehicles over the past 40+ years, I prefer disc brakes by a large margin. If Oliver offered them as an upgrade, I would pay that premium.

I have done a fair amount of plumbing, including all of the plumbing in my new home in Idaho. It is my understanding that PVC is commonly used for DWV (Drain, Waste and Vent) plumbing in the Eastern US, while ABS is almost exclusively used for DWV pipe and fittings in the West. If you go to HD or Lowes in Washington or Idaho, nearly all available DWV fittings and pipe, including toilet flanges, are ABS. The only explanation I've heard is that is what the "local" inspectors are used to, and therefore require. Where, per Jason Essary, the two parts are not glued but only pressed into a rubber bushing on the black tank, either a PVC or ABS toilet flange with stub would work.

As one who takes delivery of a 2022 Elite II next summer, I am delighted to hear that report. Now that you have had 10 days with your new Elite II, are your "high expectations" still being "exceeded"?

If it's any comfort, my wife and I have an Elite II "in the queue", and we get the same answer to our requests. We have come to accept it as a necessary result of the present economy. Fortunately, we're happy with the stock LT tires!

John Davies: Did you ever find a solution to extending the tongue on your Elite II? I have an Elite II on order and also would like to find a sensible way to extend the stock tongue, after I take delivery. BTW, thanks for your many informative posts addressing mods and repairs. I have learned a ton from them. Ralph Pond

My wife and I have a 2022 Elite II on order for late summer delivery. The upgrades referenced in your post are much appreciated. We would be thrilled if you offered one more upgrade: a quieter air conditioner. A number of Oliver owners posting on this forum have replaced their stock Dometic Penguin II AC units with Houghton/Rec Pro or Coleman Mach 10 NDQ units. They report that these are MUCH quieter than the Dometic, which has been compared to a "lawnmower in your trailer" or even a "jet engine." If you can find a way to offer a quieter AC unit for a reasonable upgrade price, we want one! Ralph Pond

I am not an engineer, and I am joining this thread many months later. But, I do know that in a house, the purpose of a "furnace grate" is to provide a return air path to the furnace to balance the HVAC system. We owned a large L-shaped, 2-story home in the Seattle area that had only one cold air return per floor, located near the joint in the "L". We heated with forced air gas. The rooms at the ends of the legs of the "L" were always cold in the winter, while the rooms in the center of the "L" were warm. I was advised this is because there were not return air vents in those outward rooms, and so the flow of heated air was not balanced. It was too expensive to retrofit, so we just lived with it. When we built our new home in Idaho, we ensured that the HVAC contractor placed return air vents in every room, on the opposite side of the room from the supply air vent, not just one or two big "furnace grates" in the middle of the structure. We also heat the Idaho home with forced air gas. Even though winters are much colder in the Idaho mountains than in the Seattle area, the outward rooms in the Idaho home stay at about the same temp as the core of the house. So, I expect the purpose of the return air vent under the rear dinette/bed area in an Elite II is to balance the system, i.e., to pull cooled air back to the furnace for reheating and redistribution through the supply ducts into the cabin. If I understand correctly, the return air grill on an Elite II is cut into the inner hull under the curb side bed. This places it just inboard of the furnace in an Elite II, and at least a few feet from the supply air vents. This allows the system to achieve "balance," or more even heating within the cabin. Since the trailer cabin is essentially one "room," it does not surprise me that there is only one return air grill. But, it also does not surprise me that the bathroom, which is the only "room" in the trailer separated from the cabin by a door, would be colder than the rest of the cabin without its own return air ducting. Thus, it makes sense that Mainiac's addition of a butterfly vent high in the bathroom wall resulted in a warmer bathroom. It appears to me that this design allows the space between the inner and outer hulls to act as a return air "duct" for the bath, balancing the flow of heated air into that small, but separate, room. We don't take delivery on our Elite II until next summer. But if we find that the bathroom feels cold when camping in cooler temps, I plan to add a butterfly vent, like Mainiac did. Thanks, Mainiac!

Thanks for the education. I had only seen it in white until now.

My undergraduate degree is in Economics. Your use of the term "price elastic" makes perfect sense to me in this context. As does the Idaho State Parks policy. Washington residents are not paying Idaho state taxes to support Idaho state parks, so it is fair to charge Washington residents more to use them. I was a Washington State resident for 35 years, but now live in Idaho again, so I have experienced both sides of that issue.

That "wye bracket" looks like a Let's Go Aero Bike Wing. How is it mounted to the trailer?

https://www.nrs.com/ethafoam-blocks/pxkv?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1672873107&utm_content=68835701990&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94z0uouUdxPvFm7ihNxq3GIntqQBJiImQQFLgVrm7c6Ds00S4PuKipBxoCYU8QAvD_BwE Available in 1" or 2". The 1" thickness should work, as it is much more compressible than HDPE, and so would compress enough to leave about a 5/8" gap for the drain hose once the top and bottom parts of the unit were secured using longer screws.

We have an Elite II on order for delivery in 2022. I emailed our sales rep, Anita, asking if Oliver would install a Houghton/Rec Pro AC unit in our new Elite II if I purchased it from Rec Pro and had it shipped to Oliver. I noted that this would save Oliver the cost of the Dometic unit, which could be installed in a different Elite II. This is Anita's response received today: That is apparently something done after the units were picked up. Th guidelines we go by would not allow us to install something that hasn’t been approved. So, this is something that the owners are doing themselves. I will send the email to upper management to see and send research and development on engineering side can look into it. So, the answer is "NO," but Anita did copy me when she forwarded my message to "Rodney," apparently with Oliver's R&D team: Hi Rodney, I know that this is something that we can’t do, however advised the new owner that I would refer it to you. That maybe research can be done. So, the AC upgrade request has been delivered to Oliver's R&D folks. I expect time will tell if Oliver presently has the inclination and the resources to adapt to customer requests for product improvement while struggling to make trailers for a lot more buyers, like us. Many thanks to Katanapilot, NcEagle, Minnesota Oli and others who "blazed the trail" enabling this upgrade with your informative posts on this thread. Whether this upgrade will ultimately be done by Oliver, or by us after we bring our Elite II home next year, remains to be seen.

Follow-up: I emailed Anita to ask if, despite the reported standard practice, the production folks could be asked really nicely to record the model and serial numbers of installed appliances just for us when they build our Elite II. She chose to call me with the answer. Anita reported that Oliver now uses what she called the "IDS" system, which digitally records model and serial numbers, by hull and VIN number, for appliances installed in trailers now being built. She advised that serial numbers can be retrieved from the IDS system by Oliver service techs upon request. She suggested I call Oliver's service department to request the model and serial number should any installed appliance ever need warranty service. As I told Anita, I plan to ask for a printout of that IDS data when I pick up our Elite II. The take away: open a service ticket, and call Oliver service to request the serial number, for any installed appliance which requires warranty service. If any of you actually do this at some point, I would appreciate a report via this forum on how it goes .

I have an Elite II on order. I asked our sales rep Anita via email if the production folks could keep a record of model and serial numbers for third-party appliances installed when they manufacture the trailer, and give it to us along with the other materials supplied at delivery. Here is her response received today: I asked service and was advised that the serial numbers are on the component. In the Oliver University is the model numbers as well as telephone numbers for the company that manufactures the component. The Truma tankless water heater has an extended warranty and we register that before you take delivery. The number for it is on the outside of the component. The plant doesn’t keep those numbers since they are on the component. I’m sorry. Apparently, it is too much to ask when you buy a trailer for $70K plus.

During my 35 years of law practice I did mostly litigation, including defense of product liability claims. IMHO, any "fear of liability" defense to providing owners with electrical diagrams is baseless. If an injury occurs and a product liability claim is filed, any available wiring diagrams must be produced through the formal discovery process. Since they can't be hidden during litigation, refusing to provide them to owners makes no sense. If Oliver management is monitoring this forum, I invite them to reconsider their position, and to resume providing wiring diagrams to owners. Surely Oliver has something their production and quality control employees follow when doing the wiring, to ensure it is done correctly. As a future owner taking delivery next year, I'd like to have one included in the owner's manuals with my 2022. It doubtless would prevent some warranty service tickets and calls, and so would reduce Oliver's service department costs. Given Oliver's commitment to the exemplary customer service so frequently described on this forum, it seems strange to refuse to provide wiring diagrams to owners, at least upon request. Oliver, your response?

I used a NOCO Genius 1100 charger for many years to maintain 12V 34Ah AGM batteries which powered a CPAP machine on extended wilderness river trips. (I now use LiFePO4 [Lithium Iron Phosphate] batteries because they weigh a lot less; those take a different charger and charging protocol). My NOCO Genius 1100 has lights showing 25-50-75-100% charge. The light for the current charging level slowly "blinks." Once the connected batteries reach full charge, all four charge level lights are steadily illuminated. The charger will then just supply the trickle of power the AGM's "like" to stay properly charged. I would not spend the $$$$ on a second charger. If you don't mind monitoring the charging process and switching the charger alligator clips to the other set of batteries periodically, I would put the NOCO charger on one set for 1 week, then switch to the other set for 1 week, then switch back and forth every month while the batteries remain out of the trailer. IMHO, AGMs don't lose charge fast enough to require constant trickle charging; once fully charged. Every other month should be fine. Keep in mind that, like ordinary car "wet cell" batteries, AGM's often sit on warehouse shelves without charging for several months after manufacture before they are purchased by end users. A few months of "standby" loss does not seem to significantly affect the long-term ability of the battery to hold a charge. Overall age, however, is a different matter. Regardless of how well they are maintained, AGMs are good for only 3-5 years after manufacture. The manufacturing date is usually stamped into the plastic battery case, sometimes in code like "1018", which might indicate "October 2018". Check with your battery manufacturer to be sure. When I bought AGMs, I always wrote the manufacture date on the case with a Sharpie. I always replaced my AGMs after year 3, because I depended on them for a good night's sleep on wilderness river trips, with no backup. Now that I use LiFePO4s, which have as much as triple the life (and price!) of AGMs, I plan to replace them after year 9, to be safe. Hope this helps.

Jason's new 2021 delivery walk-through video recommends that tire pressure be maintained at 55 PSI. I expect that's where they are now setting the pressure on new deliveries. Ralph Pond

Jim and Frances: I would love to have a Word version of your delivery checklist. I expect that if you post it on this thread, there will be others who will enjoy having it as well. Thanks for putting it together! Ralph Pond

I did an epoxy repair like John Davies describes to a fiberglass shower unit in a home we own. After the repair had cured for a couple of days, I hand sanded it smooth with super-fine automotive finish sandpaper, then applied 2 coats of Nu Finish car wax. It made the repair almost disappear.

Mike, your post aptly summarizes the reasons we remain committed to finalize the purchase of our Elite II next year, instead of an Airstream. We expect we will not only have the benefit of Jason's exemplary customer service, but continuing access to this forum, with its remarkable collection of knowledgeable veterans who generously give their time to share their experience. That so many of you remain fiercely loyal to Oliver despite the issues with your own trailers "speaks volumes" to me.