Rivernerd

I am not an engineer, and I am joining this thread many months later. But, I do know that in a house, the purpose of a "furnace grate" is to provide a return air path to the furnace to balance the HVAC system. We owned a large L-shaped, 2-story home in the Seattle area that had only one cold air return per floor, located near the joint in the "L". We heated with forced air gas. The rooms at the ends of the legs of the "L" were always cold in the winter, while the rooms in the center of the "L" were warm. I was advised this is because there were not return air vents in those outward rooms, and so the flow of heated air was not balanced. It was too expensive to retrofit, so we just lived with it. When we built our new home in Idaho, we ensured that the HVAC contractor placed return air vents in every room, on the opposite side of the room from the supply air vent, not just one or two big "furnace grates" in the middle of the structure. We also heat the Idaho home with forced air gas. Even though winters are much colder in the Idaho mountains than in the Seattle area, the outward rooms in the Idaho home stay at about the same temp as the core of the house. So, I expect the purpose of the return air vent under the rear dinette/bed area in an Elite II is to balance the system, i.e., to pull cooled air back to the furnace for reheating and redistribution through the supply ducts into the cabin. If I understand correctly, the return air grill on an Elite II is cut into the inner hull under the curb side bed. This places it just inboard of the furnace in an Elite II, and at least a few feet from the supply air vents. This allows the system to achieve "balance," or more even heating within the cabin. Since the trailer cabin is essentially one "room," it does not surprise me that there is only one return air grill. But, it also does not surprise me that the bathroom, which is the only "room" in the trailer separated from the cabin by a door, would be colder than the rest of the cabin without its own return air ducting. Thus, it makes sense that Mainiac's addition of a butterfly vent high in the bathroom wall resulted in a warmer bathroom. It appears to me that this design allows the space between the inner and outer hulls to act as a return air "duct" for the bath, balancing the flow of heated air into that small, but separate, room. We don't take delivery on our Elite II until next summer. But if we find that the bathroom feels cold when camping in cooler temps, I plan to add a butterfly vent, like Mainiac did. Thanks, Mainiac!

Thanks for the education. I had only seen it in white until now.

My undergraduate degree is in Economics. Your use of the term "price elastic" makes perfect sense to me in this context. As does the Idaho State Parks policy. Washington residents are not paying Idaho state taxes to support Idaho state parks, so it is fair to charge Washington residents more to use them. I was a Washington State resident for 35 years, but now live in Idaho again, so I have experienced both sides of that issue.

That "wye bracket" looks like a Let's Go Aero Bike Wing. How is it mounted to the trailer?

https://www.nrs.com/ethafoam-blocks/pxkv?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1672873107&utm_content=68835701990&utm_term=&gclid=CjwKCAiAp8iMBhAqEiwAJb94z0uouUdxPvFm7ihNxq3GIntqQBJiImQQFLgVrm7c6Ds00S4PuKipBxoCYU8QAvD_BwE Available in 1" or 2". The 1" thickness should work, as it is much more compressible than HDPE, and so would compress enough to leave about a 5/8" gap for the drain hose once the top and bottom parts of the unit were secured using longer screws.

We have an Elite II on order for delivery in 2022. I emailed our sales rep, Anita, asking if Oliver would install a Houghton/Rec Pro AC unit in our new Elite II if I purchased it from Rec Pro and had it shipped to Oliver. I noted that this would save Oliver the cost of the Dometic unit, which could be installed in a different Elite II. This is Anita's response received today: That is apparently something done after the units were picked up. Th guidelines we go by would not allow us to install something that hasn’t been approved. So, this is something that the owners are doing themselves. I will send the email to upper management to see and send research and development on engineering side can look into it. So, the answer is "NO," but Anita did copy me when she forwarded my message to "Rodney," apparently with Oliver's R&D team: Hi Rodney, I know that this is something that we can’t do, however advised the new owner that I would refer it to you. That maybe research can be done. So, the AC upgrade request has been delivered to Oliver's R&D folks. I expect time will tell if Oliver presently has the inclination and the resources to adapt to customer requests for product improvement while struggling to make trailers for a lot more buyers, like us. Many thanks to Katanapilot, NcEagle, Minnesota Oli and others who "blazed the trail" enabling this upgrade with your informative posts on this thread. Whether this upgrade will ultimately be done by Oliver, or by us after we bring our Elite II home next year, remains to be seen.

Follow-up: I emailed Anita to ask if, despite the reported standard practice, the production folks could be asked really nicely to record the model and serial numbers of installed appliances just for us when they build our Elite II. She chose to call me with the answer. Anita reported that Oliver now uses what she called the "IDS" system, which digitally records model and serial numbers, by hull and VIN number, for appliances installed in trailers now being built. She advised that serial numbers can be retrieved from the IDS system by Oliver service techs upon request. She suggested I call Oliver's service department to request the model and serial number should any installed appliance ever need warranty service. As I told Anita, I plan to ask for a printout of that IDS data when I pick up our Elite II. The take away: open a service ticket, and call Oliver service to request the serial number, for any installed appliance which requires warranty service. If any of you actually do this at some point, I would appreciate a report via this forum on how it goes .

I have an Elite II on order. I asked our sales rep Anita via email if the production folks could keep a record of model and serial numbers for third-party appliances installed when they manufacture the trailer, and give it to us along with the other materials supplied at delivery. Here is her response received today: I asked service and was advised that the serial numbers are on the component. In the Oliver University is the model numbers as well as telephone numbers for the company that manufactures the component. The Truma tankless water heater has an extended warranty and we register that before you take delivery. The number for it is on the outside of the component. The plant doesn’t keep those numbers since they are on the component. I’m sorry. Apparently, it is too much to ask when you buy a trailer for $70K plus.

During my 35 years of law practice I did mostly litigation, including defense of product liability claims. IMHO, any "fear of liability" defense to providing owners with electrical diagrams is baseless. If an injury occurs and a product liability claim is filed, any available wiring diagrams must be produced through the formal discovery process. Since they can't be hidden during litigation, refusing to provide them to owners makes no sense. If Oliver management is monitoring this forum, I invite them to reconsider their position, and to resume providing wiring diagrams to owners. Surely Oliver has something their production and quality control employees follow when doing the wiring, to ensure it is done correctly. As a future owner taking delivery next year, I'd like to have one included in the owner's manuals with my 2022. It doubtless would prevent some warranty service tickets and calls, and so would reduce Oliver's service department costs. Given Oliver's commitment to the exemplary customer service so frequently described on this forum, it seems strange to refuse to provide wiring diagrams to owners, at least upon request. Oliver, your response?

I used a NOCO Genius 1100 charger for many years to maintain 12V 34Ah AGM batteries which powered a CPAP machine on extended wilderness river trips. (I now use LiFePO4 [Lithium Iron Phosphate] batteries because they weigh a lot less; those take a different charger and charging protocol). My NOCO Genius 1100 has lights showing 25-50-75-100% charge. The light for the current charging level slowly "blinks." Once the connected batteries reach full charge, all four charge level lights are steadily illuminated. The charger will then just supply the trickle of power the AGM's "like" to stay properly charged. I would not spend the $$$$ on a second charger. If you don't mind monitoring the charging process and switching the charger alligator clips to the other set of batteries periodically, I would put the NOCO charger on one set for 1 week, then switch to the other set for 1 week, then switch back and forth every month while the batteries remain out of the trailer. IMHO, AGMs don't lose charge fast enough to require constant trickle charging; once fully charged. Every other month should be fine. Keep in mind that, like ordinary car "wet cell" batteries, AGM's often sit on warehouse shelves without charging for several months after manufacture before they are purchased by end users. A few months of "standby" loss does not seem to significantly affect the long-term ability of the battery to hold a charge. Overall age, however, is a different matter. Regardless of how well they are maintained, AGMs are good for only 3-5 years after manufacture. The manufacturing date is usually stamped into the plastic battery case, sometimes in code like "1018", which might indicate "October 2018". Check with your battery manufacturer to be sure. When I bought AGMs, I always wrote the manufacture date on the case with a Sharpie. I always replaced my AGMs after year 3, because I depended on them for a good night's sleep on wilderness river trips, with no backup. Now that I use LiFePO4s, which have as much as triple the life (and price!) of AGMs, I plan to replace them after year 9, to be safe. Hope this helps.

Jason's new 2021 delivery walk-through video recommends that tire pressure be maintained at 55 PSI. I expect that's where they are now setting the pressure on new deliveries. Ralph Pond

Jim and Frances: I would love to have a Word version of your delivery checklist. I expect that if you post it on this thread, there will be others who will enjoy having it as well. Thanks for putting it together! Ralph Pond

I did an epoxy repair like John Davies describes to a fiberglass shower unit in a home we own. After the repair had cured for a couple of days, I hand sanded it smooth with super-fine automotive finish sandpaper, then applied 2 coats of Nu Finish car wax. It made the repair almost disappear.

Mike, your post aptly summarizes the reasons we remain committed to finalize the purchase of our Elite II next year, instead of an Airstream. We expect we will not only have the benefit of Jason's exemplary customer service, but continuing access to this forum, with its remarkable collection of knowledgeable veterans who generously give their time to share their experience. That so many of you remain fiercely loyal to Oliver despite the issues with your own trailers "speaks volumes" to me.

As I search this forum for technical advice, I keep finding new threads addressing yet more, and recent, production oversights. This one adds another item to the checklist I am preparing for when I take delivery on my Elite II: "Verify that furnace air flow to all vents, including the one in the bathroom, is adequate." While I laud Oliver for sponsoring this forum, and for leaving exposed errors like this one publicly visible, I surely hope Oliver's QC folks bring their "A" game when my Ollie is built......

Seems clear to me from review of this thread that, to be consistent with Dexter's specs, Oliver should now be using 12 AWG CU wire for Elite II electric brakes, since there are 4 brakes. Thanks to those who have posted here for figuring this out! Does anyone know if Oliver has upgraded the wire gauge for the Elite II electric brakes from the 18 and 20-gauge conductors John Davies noted three years ago, at the beginning of this thread ? I'd like to be assured that when my Elite II is built next year, Oliver's manufacturing methods comply with their supplier's specs, and that my trailer brakes will function as designed.

With all due respect, 90 PSI is too high for any home or RV water system without risking damage to the components. 65 PSI is the usual recommended safe maximum. As Overland points out, around 40-45 PSI is best if that produces enough pressure for normal use. But I would not recommend ever going above 65 PSI.

But at least the bushings on the F-250 appear to be fully supported, not hanging off the edge of the support bracket. I hope Oliver takes steps soon to get the holes for the shocks drilled more accurately (further inboard) so the bushing is fully supported by the bracket.

As a future owner whose Elite II build is months away, I have added "inspect battery box support bolts--nylock nuts?" to my growing list of items to double-check when taking delivery. I hope Oliver staff monitor this thread, and take steps to further improve their quality control before mine comes up...... But, I commend Oliver for the transparency of this forum. As a retired lawyer, I have been persuaded by the content on this forum that, like the American legal system, Oliver's imperfect production quality and customer service are the "worst in the world, except for all the rest." We remain committed to complete the purchase of our Ollie.

My wife and I have a 2022 Elite II on order. We are weighing battery upgrade issues as well. Although I have no RV experience, I would not spend the extra $1200 to upgrade from wet cell to AGM. Both wet cell and AGMs have lead/acid chemistry, and will likely last anywhere from 3-5 years. Like most folks, I have wet cell batteries in my vehicles, but until recently, used 12V AGMs to power my CPAP machine on extended wilderness river trips because they are sealed (I now use 12V LiFeP04 batteries to save weight). 5 years is the most I ever get from either wet cells or AGMs. It would not be worth $1200 to me ($240-$400 per year depending on whether they last 3 or 5 years) to avoid topping off the wet cells for that period of time. When they die, I would then replace the wet cells with AGMs, because the price differential between wet cell and AGM is not that much. You can buy highly-rated 100Ah AGM batteries today for about $200, so about $800 for 400Ah. https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Battery-Marine-Off-grid-Applications/dp/B075RFXHYK/ref=sr_1_3?crid=7JH0DV2V7EOD&keywords=100ah+agm+deep+cycle+battery+12v&qid=1636300229&sprefix=100ah+agm+deep+cycle+battery%2Caps%2C279&sr=8-3 That said, we are presently planning to spend the extra $$$$ on the Lithium Pro Package, for many reasons: (1) we view it as "future proofing" (it's a lot easier to have the more robust 3kw inverter and wiring infrastructure installed during construction); (2) we hope to be able to run the AC with just our 2kw generator, which requires the Micro Air Easy Start (which is also much easier to install in the factory before the AC goes on the roof); (3) we want to be able to run the AC, albeit for only a short time, on the batteries; (4) LiFePO4 accepts a full charge much faster than lead/acid, and so is more efficiently recharged with solar; (5) 390Ah of LiFePO4 provides much more usable battery capacity than 400 Ah of wet cell, because only about 50% of lead/acid capacity is usable before recharge compared to 85% with LiFePO4; (6) payload,and therefore trailer weight, is an issue with our 2019 Tundra 5.7L Double Cab tow vehicle, and LiFePO4 saves a couple hundred pounds vs. lead/acid and (7) the increased cost is offset to some extent by the 10-year probable life of LiFePO4 batteries. If I had a 7.2kw, relatively quiet and efficient, generator built into my tow vehicle, I may view the lithium upgrade differently. Hope this helps. Ralph Pond

Thanks for the education, and for the copy of the wiring diagram. I wired my new home in Idaho, and have done auto electrical work on my own vehicles. I have also rewired the lights on my raft trailer a couple of times. In each of those applications, the wires have been color coded. It is helpful to know that the ground wires in Oliver trailers are all yellow (as opposed to the green I am used to). Is the yellow ground standard for travel trailers?

NCEagle: Good catch. It appears that Oliver noted your post highlighting the 18.5 gallon vs. 15 gallon discrepancy. I have a 2022 on order, so after reading your post, I checked the specs for the 2022 Elite II: 15 Gal. Design Capacity Black Water Tank with pressure flushing system for the Tank Standard So, maybe thanks to you, new buyers like me are on notice that they are getting only 15 gallons, and maybe less, depending on the difference between actual and "design" capacity.

This same question occurred to me when viewing the photo of the bus bar. Cars and trucks use color-coded wiring harnesses. Why does a high-end travel trailer not do the same? Does Oliver still use the same yellow low-voltage wire for all connections?