routlaw

I wouldn't be too concerned regarding a first year release. Not that Ford is infallible by any means but most of what comes with this truck are tried and true technologies they have been implemented in these trucks for years. As for the hybrid aspect, Ford also has lots of experience with some of their cars so porting over to a truck shouldn't be all that problematic I would think. Inverters have been around for a long time so again most of these devices are fairly reliable by now. I do understand why some might think this is just too much tech however, though it doesn't bother me. As Overland illustrates the rear F150 seats fold up nicely and out of the way… mostly. I use them in this manner more often than not on my 2013 F150. All that said if I ever bellied up to the bar for a new 2021 I would not include the inverter. With solar and lots of batteries on the Oliver I just don't see the need for it. These inverters are better suited IMHO for guys who are in the building trades or similar rather than RV'ing.

FYI, the Blackfeet Reservation just closed off all roads into Glacier NP from the east side due to the Corona Virus. What this means is you can NOT camp from any of the east side campgrounds unless of course you're tent camping or in a van and only then you would be able to get into either St Marys or Rising Sun. The other accesses are via the reservation. I assume Glacier is still allowing people to cross over the Logan Pass to access St Mary's but you can not tow across the Going to the Sun Road and in fact there is a 21 foot limit on vehicles of any kind. The park service is not going to contest this closure by the Blackfeet Reservation. Suffice it to say this will put a huge burden on Apgar, Avalanche and Fishing Creek campgrounds. I'll wait till the fall before heading up there this year, assuming the park itself doesn't completely close down before then.

My take. 1. Can't stand the existing windows. Had tip out awning style when we owned our T@b which were way better IMO. Better ventilation, could be open in torrential downpours and they shed water considerably better with no maintenance compared to the sliding windows now being used. In fact I wouldn't mind having those poly-carbonate type of windows. FWIW in 8 years of ownership they still were not scratched up. 2. Fridge, speaking of the T@b once again it came with a compressor fridge. Hated it. It was loud, very loud. If you can't sleep with a forced air furnace running the 12 volt compressor fridge takes it up a few more notches. Plus it uses lots of 12 volt power to run. I have no complaints what so ever with the Dometic installed in the Oliver. I've never understood why people do not like absorption fridges. 3. I agree with others draining the fresh water tank is a slow chore, this could be improved. 4. AC, we've never turned ours on, don't plan to either and its the original Coleman which is really loud. 5. Black and gray tank drain, hadn't thought much about it until now but as others have mentioned placement could have been better thought out. 6. Heat. we have the Suburban that came on earlier models, hull #70. Being an early adopter one can only describe it as being a major PITA to work on. As I understand it all of these types of heaters are only about 40% efficient. This is 2020 and no excuse for such outdated technology but the RV industry in general being what it is, is also way behind the times in this regard. I would replace it for a truly quiet and energy efficient heating system in a heartbeat. We have a combi system in our house, hot water heat and hot water all on the same unit and while it has had repairs over the years the issue of having all of your eggs in one hot basket of water has never been an issue yet. They system was installed over 20 years ago and by modern standards its also way out of date but still works fine. I would love the idea of a condenser hot water heating system. 7. Maintenance free axels. You got to be kidding, once again its 2020 and your axels and associated suspension have to be serviced every 3,000 miles. Thanks

Awesome, thanks guys. Totally makes sense. And yes it probably is an extortion racket.

Do regular household faucets and other plumbing fixtures work with the RV industry. I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, RV plumbing has different size fittings. The faucets and fixtures in our Oliver leave a bit to be desired and it would be a nice upgrade to replace them all. Thanks

Ok that's funny, albeit very unfortunate. Due to the praise of the Garmin Smart Drive 61 LMT I ordered one this afternoon from GPS city for $177 new, not refurb. Looking forward to receiving it. They also had refurbs for around $120ish but don't recall the exact amount.

Thanks for the explanation Trainman, appreciated! This unit does receive much high praise indeed after spending sometime looking into reviews on youtube. I fail to understand though why people like using an iPhone in exchange for a real navigation system. My own experience has been frustrating at best. They get hot if left running all the time or else will turn the monitor off just when its inconvenient, they use up copious amounts of expensive data if constantly running a navigation app. Don't get me wrong I use my iPhone for a lot of things including some limited navigation but to use one in exchange of a true GPS device just doesn't make sense to me. However I am also surprised to hear so many complaints about built in Nav systems on autos and trucks. This surprised me too. I'll probably pick up one of those 61 LMT-S soon. Thanks for the recommendation.

@Trainman, why did you settle on the Garmin 61 LMT? There is such a bewildering array of these devices and much to research. Thanks

Couple of unscientific thoughts. Have you consider hydrogen peroxide? It is also a very effective disinfectant and bleach. It is available in food grade normally 35% solution and can be ordered online if not available locally and doesn't smell nearly as bad as Chlorox. To that I will also add that most, perhaps all municipal water supplies do have some amount of chlorine added to the supply. To my way of thinking this alone should disinfect most holding tanks. IOW's fill tank and lines let set overnight or for some period, then drain and refill. Under no circumstance we do not drink water from our holding tanks anyway. Too risky no matter what but the main reason is those holding tanks create a terrible taste. The water from them is unpalatable IMHO. We carry additional BPA free 5 gal jugs full of fresh water with us. Two of them last for quite awhile if only using for drinking and cooking. We only use the fresh water holding tank for dishes and showers never food and drink. Hope this helps.

We stopped once in Junction and bought a big bag of Plumley's Pecans at their store. Incredible paper shell pecans some of the best available.

Ed & Nancy. No doubt Eddie B will have his perspective but in the meantime a couple of thoughts of my own. Most, perhaps all USFS and even BLM campgrounds limit a maximum stay in anyone camp spot or campground of 14 days consecutively. You could certainly go form one place to the next quite easily. The same holds true for camping in Glacier, but again its quite easy to move around from within the park based upon my experience. The campgrounds in Glacier all have dump stations as well as fresh water fill ups too. Understand the Flathead Valley is a very busy place especially in the summer (with subsequent heavy traffic), meaning you are never very far from adequate facilities such as dump stations and the ability to replenish water. USFS campgrounds by comparison tend to be considerably more primitive with far less facilities. However the vast majority of them do have fresh potable water that you can replenish easily enough in the Oliver. Columbia Falls and Coram are the closest to Glacier while Kalispell and Whitefish are just a few more miles further into the valley. So the quick answer to your question is, yes you should be able to do this but with a bit of moving around from campground to campground. Also I wouldn't rule out the many Montana State parks in the area. All are located in some very nice areas on Flathead or Whitefish Lake and have very good facilities including hot showers. Hope this is helpful.

@John E Davies Not a big deal in the big scheme of things, but thought I should mention it before others spent a day looking for something that didn't exist.

This is a far superior battery powered truck, not even close IMHO, and they are not so ugly as the Tesla https://rivian.com

Best of luck, hope it all goes well for you.

One last thought that occurred to me after my post from yesterday. Fires: In the last decade, perhaps longer, our summer air quality state wide (usually) has diminished greatly due to western wildfires. For those who don't live out west the next part will most likely seem improbable to you. Even if Montana doesn't have much itself in the way of fires we do get smoke and lots of it from other states. Its not uncommon in the least for the CA wildfires to inundate our skies here in MT, and its not just CA it could be BC, OR, WA, ID, NV or any other of the western states or provinces dependent on the prevailing winds at the time. Generally through out most of the summer, spring and early fall months the prevailing winds are from SW to NE but even this can change in a heartbeat. This past summer of 2019 MT had very few fires itself due to the heavy snow fall and continued wet and cool weather throughout the summer months and for the most part we did enjoy for a change mostly clear skies and clean air and lots of rain. Our snowpack this winter is above average, a good thing, but even this is no longer a guarantee of a summer/fall season without fires. Please understand this information is not meant to discourage anyone from venturing up this way, but rather come prepared yet most importantly have some alternative travel plans should all hell break loose with fires. Here's hoping for a fireless season with beautiful blue skies… that we used to be known for. Rob PS, I would like to make one correction to John Davies expose on traveling to Glacier from last year. Had not realized he had written up such an excellent piece, but in quickly scanning his prose I saw he mentioned "Kalispell State Park and Lake". There is no such thing, including a Kalispell Lake although there are a number of lakes nearby Kalispell. Perhaps he meant either Whitefish Lake State Park or even Flathead Lake to the south of the town. Again there are numerous state park campgrounds around Flathead Lake and even Whitefish Lake. My favorite by far is the one near the small touristy town of Big Fork called Wayfarers State Park. Its small but there are numerous spots to fit an Oliver into and all of the MT state parks do take reservations. Whitefish Lake State Park is also nice, but if you camp there expect to be woken off and on through the night with freight trains that run literally right next to the park. I'm talking a stones through if that. Hope this helps.

Shame on you for not looking me up:)). But thanks and yes its not too shabby of a place to hang out. Glad you got to see it. It is uber expensive here anymore. Real Estate is off the charts in recent years. Hope your trip was a good one and you didn't get caught in that early winter crap. Come to think about it I remember seeing an Elite II parked in the Target parking lot last year with TX plates on it. Might have been you?

@ Renagade, first good luck with your trip up here to Big Sky Country. Welcome! I have lived in MT (Bozeman) for well over 40 years and have been to Glacier countless times during all seasons and have watched the tourism in the park explode since the mid 70's. With that in mind while I agree with some of the responses here I also have a somewhat different perspective on a few things. Weather: come prepared for winter. Montana weather is extremely volatile and at times just as unpredictable, and the park itself on any given day can have dramatically different weather compared to just a short drive out of the park. Given that you are from southern FL, your idea of winter and ours is on an order of magnitude different. On the other hand you might experience days that are sublime and think my suggestions are an empty threat, they are not. For instance just over a year ago, late May-early June, I left home in low 80 degree weather here in SW MT. Arrived in Glacier and the next day the weather turned upside down and stayed that way for 5-6 days. It was what most people would refer to as dead of winter or near so. Heat of the day, 42º, down to near freezing at night howling winds, some snow and often rain. This past fall, winter came early. Perhaps the 2nd or 3rd week of Sept, fall color died on the vine sub zero temps for a week or two with plenty of wet heavy snow. The day before the storm hit my wife and I were hiking in tees and shorts. This is not uncommon at these elevations and latitudes. The closer we get to the shoulder seasons the more volatile the weather can be. Campgrounds: You can get RSVPS at Fish Creek just across the lake from Apgar as well as St Marys and Swiftcurrent in the NE section of the park. John is correct Two Medicine is beautiful but it fills in the short summer quickly every day. It also closes fairly early but don't recall how long after Labor Day, sorry. East Glacier is on the Blackfoot Indian Reservation so laws regarding many things including alcohol can be very different and for what ever unknown reason can change from day to day. Supplies in the area are limited at best IMO. Most hikes from Two Medicine campground tend to be quite long, some with serious elevation gains. In addition to Apgar, Fish Creek, St Mary's (by far my least favorite) consider Swiftcurrent as well as Avalanche Creek which also closes earlier than most. There are size limitations at Rising Sun Campground but you could probably squeeze an Oliver in to one or two of them the rest are far too small. Its also first come first serve. Avalanche Creek does not afford much in the way of views, it is deep into the forest but still a very nice campground centrally located for day tours, hikes and what ever your'e up to for the day. Travel, The route into Glacier: Most are beautiful drives. However I do not recommend the route from Missoula to Kalispell. While there is some beautiful scenery along this route the traffic is VERY HEAVY almost the entire year. It's become more trouble than its worth to me. However I would be remiss if not mentioning the state park campgrounds scattered along the shores of Flathead Lake, all are nice with awesome views and fairly good facilities. My preferred route at least from Bozeman is a trip up the Seely-Swan River Valley that terminates in Big Fork and from there about another hour (towing speed) up to Glacier. There are a slew of very nice USFS and BLM campgrounds along this route as well. The Front Range route through Augusta and Choteau Highway 89 are also very nice but the closer you get to the east side of the park count on steep narrow winding climbs and descents. Its a slow go after Browning assuming you continue on to St Mary's. Camping along this route is virtually a no go unless you decide to head due west into the Front Range where you can find some awesome USFS camps there. This would be a detour however. The southern perimeter route highway 2 will be an easy cake walk though a bit more exciting than what you normally might drive in FL. From Mid August on tourism tapers off considerably both in Yellowstone as well as Glacier, due to kids/family back in school. However the weekends assuming really nice weather will experience quite a bit of day use and some camper influx from the locals out in Flathead Valley. It is worth noting, not once have I ever been able to get a drive up camp spot in Glacier even during the peak of summer season including but not limited to the 4th of July weekend. Bowman Lake can be overwhelmed with local day users during the weekends with nice weather. However don't miss this place, its about an hours drive up there from Apgar but not to be missed. Take the outside road. There is a nice hike along the north shore of Bowman Lake that will take you to the far end of the lake about 14 or so miles RT, but very little elevation gain a rarity in this park. That should be enough to digest for now, good luck on planning your trip. Let me know if you have questions.

@ Trainman, it was my understanding the indemnification clause had nothing to do with the financial end of things but about personal injury. However I did NOT get to read the contract so who knows for sure.

John Its curious this comes up. My experience may be something altogether different but its worth noting here and would be great if we could get some clarification from Oliver on this. In January I showed a couple our Oliver. They like what they saw and placed an order with Oliver almost immediately. However once Oliver sent them a contract there was an "indemnification" clause in the contract the would be buyers felt very uncomfortable with. To make a long story short the potential buyers backed out of the purchase and build. I can't help but think this is all related. To that I will add I don't recall seeing any such clause at the time we purchased or ordered out Oliver but that was some 5 years ago and a lot can change in that amount of time. Its also not something I have heard people complaining about but then I don't spend copious amounts of time in these forums either. Lately I've had lots of time on my hands and thus its easier to do. Jason, can you shed some light on this please. Thanks Rob

I just had an email from a young lady BLM ranger my wife and I met a few years ago. She works in the southern part of the state of Utah but to keep her identity safe thats as close as I will hint at the location. Apparently people are recreating in droves in her area. This surprised me greatly and suffice it to say the local rangers and employees are somewhat scared to death sensing the danger in this scenario. After all they do have to deal with crowds of people often in close proximity in some shape form or fashion.

We keep ours at a somewhat local Boat and RV storage facility with locked gates with over head cover. There are some complete enclosed bays none of them have electricity. As far as keeping batteries charged this has not been an issue even with Montana winters. Every year upon picking up our Oliver the batteries tend to be at 12.8 + volts. Its my understanding a fully charged lead acid battery can withstand temps to -50º F or more if memory serves me correct. Preference would be to keep at the house under cover but living in the old historical area of town lots are small, driveways are smaller and there just isn't the space for full time storage without giving up most if not all of the yard.

One other comment. As of this morning Yellowstone National Park and Grand Teton are now closed to the public. Not sure about Glacier NP have not heard anything about that. Its not a particularly great time of year to be camping in either of these parks this time of year anyway. Been snowing off and on for the 3 days. I'm over that part.

I'm a bit late to the conversation on this, been busy with other things to think about camping unfortunately. And of course about the time I am ready all H*ll breaks loose with this disease. Steve you make some good points on this but I would also add the only time I have ever gotten a flu shot, while not serving in the armed forces in my younger years, I ended up with the worse case of flu ever. There were a couple of nights honestly I had my doubts I would wake up in the morning. This was some 15-20 years ago. Never had another flu shot since and for the most part other than an occasional cold stay fairly healthy. My wife and I do eat a very health diet and get exercise regularly. I don't know if this qualifies as a reasonable excuse but its the one I am sticking with for now. Its also worth pointing out that flu shots/vaccines are only about 40-60% effective depending on the year, the disease and a host of other factors. They are NOT 100% effective and nowhere near it. Regardless I hope all stay well and healthy and hope this dreaded situation ends soon.

John, I have been all over the state, there has been very little of it I have not seen at one time or the other, just not much camping out in the open plains and the parts you are interested in. I much prefer the mountains. Freeze-out Lake is another area that might be of interest you as well. Not sure how much bird population is there this time of the year and I don't know if there is a campground there or not. Its west of Great Falls and east of Choteau and Augusta. Its a big draw for birders though. Regarding the APR, not sure what the objection to this is, and we certainly don't need to get into an argument over it. I'm not involved in any way with this organization but it has been my understanding their intentions are meant to be beneficial to the area in many ways, both economical and preservational. Certainly some but not all of the locals within these counties have had some objections.

John I have lived in this state for over 40 years but am not very familiar with most of the areas you are interested in other than the east side of Glacier. If staying in Glacier NP, Two Medicine Campground is really nice as well as further north in the park at Swiftcurrent/Many Glacier area. I would encourage you to look into the American Prairie Reserve online as well because much of what you're interested in falls smack dab in the middle. The headquarters for the Reserve is located here in Bozeman so if you stop in there they can provide you with lots of info and maps. There is a small very primitive campground at Judith Landing right on the Missouri River. Further down the river is the Fred Robinson Bridge and believer there is a large campground there too, where the Fort Peck Reservoir is. Browning used to have a reputation for being a very rough place, but understand it has mellowed in recent years from their period of high crime. This time of year you shouldn't have much trouble finding camp sites along Canyon Ferry Lake near Helena if that interest you. Marysville is somewhat of a ghost town just north of Helena. I would also encourage you to look into the Front Range areas. Access from near Choteau and Augusta would be great places to explore. This is really raw wilderness at its best for the lower 48. Check out Wood Lake Campground west of Augusta, and there is a nice USFS campground west of Choteau near Cave Mountain ski area. Understand this is the thick of Grizzly Bear country, be safe and careful.