routlaw

Wow! What a nightmare, so glad you came out without any serious injuries or worse. Unbelievable.

John thanks for sharing this information, good stuff. The thing is our furnace did not work properly from the get go even before hitting red rock roads. Our first few nights were spent at the Nine Mile Guest Ranch with all paved roads in. Have had the Nine Mile Road on my bucket list for years to experience the abundant petroglyphs and pictographs. Regardless I will check all connections just to make sure dust and dirt is not the culprit. It was unseasonably cold down in southern Utah on this trip and we came home to near winter conditions with howling winds so have not had made the effort to get out there and start tearing things apart. Frankly I would prefer to spend the time installing a new heating system rather than continuing to repair a piece of crap furnace. We were amazed at how well the Mr Buddy performed during the trip and had to use it every morning. It did produce some condensation on the windows which was mostly there already from two people sleeping in a cold cabin. Never noticed any smell, even far less than lighting up the cooktop actually. It was dead quiet too. Went through 1 & 1/2 bottles of propane for the entire trip. Night temps were down to the low 30's and probably a few nights sinking into the higher 20's.

@CnC Don't think that is the issue, but this also occurred to me since we started out with a partially used tank but after several failed attempts I switched to the other tank that was absolutely full and results were the same. Honestly at this point I would convert to one of the better heating systems like Alde or Truma in a heartbeat if they would allow end users to install. I agree with John Davies though the hot water heating system of Alde would be my preference but it would be a nightmare to retrofit an already built out Oliver. We have hot water heat in our home here in Montana and would never go back to forced air if given the option. Good video @SeaDawg thanks for sharing that one. I got a chuckle out of the Truma rep when he said 60% efficiency on standard RV heating systems. He might have missed that by 10 or 20 points being too optimistic.

Yes that is correct.

Wish I owned one of those Atwoods, unfortunately the Suburbans are a major PITA to work on. The entire thing has to be removed from the camper to get to anything but the ignitor. I've done this before, its an all day affair due to the limited working space. Even the compartment dividers to the storage area in the rear have to be removed. Anyway was hoping all indicators would not point to the sail switch for this reason. Regardless thanks for linking the video, it was helpful even though it is for an Atwood.

Actually I still have the 4 lead acid batteries but they are all good still keeping a charge so low voltage for sure wasn't the issue. Have camped in even colder weather before not that it was balmy on this trip and furnace worked fine with the lead acid. Tried calling Suburban earlier today and their voice mail cut the phone call of once they knew I was not an authorized service tech. Apparently they don't want RV owners messing with these things any longer. Thanks.

Thanks for the info and thoughts. The times that the furnace did kick on you could hear the ignitor, then the flame kick on, otherwise a no go. Why the colder air causes a problem is beyond me though. BTW hot water heater worked fine, as did the gas cook top. Taking these things (Suburban is a major PITA) having done this before. Atwoods are much easier to work on.

Apologies for the language but, just returned from a trip to southern Utah and as luck would have it our Suburban furnace would not operate yet again. This is the second time within the last couple of years however this time it would only fire up when the outside ambient temperature was around 50º or so, any colder than that and it would only start the fan which ran for 15 seconds or so then shut off. No matter how many times we turned the thermostat switch on and off we got the same results until of course the outside temps got up to 50º or so but then it's not needed at that point. Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this? FWIW I replaced the ignitor a couple of years ago and would not have thought to go bad so soon. Also all other gas appliances worked perfectly. We had to purchase a Mr Buddy heater for the trip otherwise no heat in some unseasonably cold weather every night. Funny that thing puts out almost as much heat in the lowest setting of 4,000 BTU as the 16,000 BTU Suburban puts out, probably due to its efficiency and the lack of with the furnace at 40% or so efficiency. Thanks

Fascinating the differences on this issue, but thanks or the info. Presumably then you let the extra links dangle loose until you got home? Regarding the length if you look at the Andersen website they offer an extension of links couple link, think they call it a D-ring, but provide this as 6 links which are almost 1 foot in length so 23 of them would be getting fairly close to 4 feet. Oh well.

@Trainman curious Jason at Oliver told me 23 links were needed plus a link connector deal. I was figuring each link was about 2 inches long going by the description on the Andersen website which would make the entire extension roughly 4 foot long which seems like a lot. An approximate measure from just behind the hitch (guessing where the triangle plate might end) was close to 60 inches to the rear most area of the frame where the clamps would be installed. Jason quoted me $623.00 + shipping. No idea what shipping would be but at 60 lbs probably close to $50 these days going ground. Thanks

Can someone explain to me why such a long set of extra links are needed for the Oliver/Andersen hookup? Most of the installation videos I've seen install the clamping bars about halfway back on the A Frame with resulting chain being significantly shorter than what Oliver recommends. I realize the clamps mount onto the inner frame member but can't understand why the need for them to be all the way to the back. Are the additional links supplied by Andersen as extras, or can any off the shelf link be used assuming it of the same size and caliber? After reading through this conversation I am making the decision to incorporate the Andersen although after 7 years of towing without it I'm not convinced of the need, but the insurance and liability part was what convinced me so I'm belling up to the bar for this one. Thanks.

Quick additional note. While I did this with a Tundra and T@b (a very light trailer) in the past I doubt I would do it again FWIW.

I live in SW Montana and have been over the Beartooth Highway countless times. I have an F150 Super Crew and would not do it, period. Back when we had a T@b we crossed a couple of times with a Tundra TV (much shorter wheel base) and even that was pushing the envelope IMHO. During the summer months this road, as remote and extreme as it is can be very busy with a constant stream of traffic both directions including but not limited to lots of motorcycles. Aside from the fact there are very tight hairpin turns on the switchbacks and a lot of them at that, this road is extremely steep especially on the decent into Montana from the Wyoming side. This is a road that does not allow for mistakes. As for camping the Rock Creek area on the Montana side after cruising through Red Lodge all require RSVP's but there are some crude boon docking sites in the area if you know where to look. Back on the Wyoming side and between YNP and the ascent up to the passes there are several nice campgrounds albeit not very large ones that are all first come first serve. Mosquitos even at 9000 ft elevation and above are absolutely relentless up there so be forewarned and they are up at the crack of dawn, first light. Pray for wind. My preferred route is approaching from YNP and the west, then descend back into Montana. The Rock Creek campgrounds are nice but you'll need to RSVP way ahead of schedule they fill up constantly all summer. The drive in from the Montana side assuming you go through Roscoe is a gorgeous drive but again its very winding with lots of ups and downs and whoop-di-doos. This road is skinny with NO shoulder once you are passed Roscoe and the final leg to Red Lodge. There is another route from Billings/Laurel to Red Lodge but its boring as hell compared to the route south of Columbus. In all the years of crossing/driving over the highway and I cannot recall once seeing anyone towing a travel trailer even with modest size ones like the Oliver. I tend to er on the side of caution. One thing goes wrong on a route like this and you'll be into some very big trouble quickly taking others with you. Hopefully this helps.

Having read through this entire thread, clearly the term winter and cold weather is a relative term. Last night our temps dropped down to -7º F with wind chill of -35º F and most of February and so far the bulk of March has been like this or close to it. Under these circumstances the Oliver is NOT a 4 season camper IMHO. We have camped numerous times when temps were in the mid teens to mid 20's + or - a few degrees and the Oliver does reasonable well, but I have always felt the furnace is underrated at 16,000 BTU input and running at 40-50% efficiency this allows for only about 8,000 BTU's of actual useable heat which would be fine in a highly efficient well insulated enclosure. There have been some excellent suggestions in regards to remote sensors, portable propane heaters and such which I have owned a few of but sold due to lack of use. I'm thinking it would be wise to pick one up again in case of emergencies. Using electric heaters here in Montana winters is a mixed bag at best. Last winter I got caught unprepared and did not get the Oliver winterized before we were hit with an early winter storm in Sept or Oct (memory is a bit fuzzy on this) which lasted for days. I have 3 electric portable heaters and not a one of them could keep our Oliver warmer than the low 40's for days on end of running them non stop. So just a word of caution there are limits to Olivers claim of 4 season camper. Not trying to beat up on Oliver but from my perspective 4 season camper is relative. Thanks for the great suggestion.

We also have the rear view camera, however the factory installed one was stolen out of our truck a few years ago so I installed a different brand. Truthfully I really didn't like the factory installed one anyway, too gangly with all the wires and monitor was terrible. I installed a Fusion which was marginally better with the monitor and more importantly with a significantly smaller footprint. If I had it to do again would have bought another brand. Maybe Oliver has also changed the brand of rear view cameras by now compared to the original we had. They are very useful however, and wouldn't want to be without one.

My door sticker for tire inflation states 35 psi front and back for normal use, but there is a nebulous area in the manual hinting at raising tire pressure when towing but doesn't state anything specific in terms of PSI. Like others comments here I have mostly bought Michelins too and the ones I currently have are really nice and quiet and smooth riding, however probably not the best for running around in the backroads of Utah and other areas of the SW where we like to travel to as often as possible thus the interest in the highly rated Cooper AT3's. FWIW I have used Coopers on other vehicles with excellent results but not the AT3's. Thanks for the feedback.

Do you folks increase the tire pressure at least in the rear while towing and if so by how much? I have always done this albeit not scientifically and there seems to be no end to the amount of conflicting information about this on the internet. Some people swear the front tires need to be increased also, but this makes no logical sense to me. Thus far I have increased my rears from the recommended 35 psi to 40-45 psi but leave the fronts at their normal rating. Finally my current set of tires have been on my F150 for 9 years now and still not worn out and visually look fine, with probably another 10-15,000 miles left on them. I figure I should replace now before camping and touring season starts up. I currently have the Michelin LTX M/S on, but considering the Cooper Discover AT3 AS4's. Anyone have experience with either or have another suggestion. Thanks a bunch.

I also tow a Legacy Elite II with an F150 with 3.5 Eco Boost engine, and completely agree with the other comments you should get the 3.5 not the 2.7 L engine otherwise you're stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. You'll be glad you did in the long run. However I do not nor ever have used the WDH for towing and still don't feel its necessary, at least for me, however this is a very personal decision. Good luck.

Here is my take on this issue. I truly believe a huge percentage of the RV market glut of the last couple of years will be short lived and as SeaDawg mentioned a good many of those campers will be setting in RV parking lots most of the time. Heck this was already the case long before the RV glut and from what I've seen a great deal of these new "camper people" are quite inexperienced at best. Yellowstone: Even this year there were a few of their campgrounds on a FCFS (first come first serve) basis, Indian Creek and about half of Pebble Creek. Regardless the only years I've ever seen empty campgrounds in YNP was during the housing bubble years of '08 and '09. My wife and I went down there on 4th of July weekend for a day hike or two only to be blown away that more than half of the campgrounds were still not full in early afternoon. Never saw that before nor sense. Glacier: Apgar, Avalanche and parts of Two Medicine and Swiftcurent are also FCFS or mixed with RSVP's. We were only able to get out once this summer season due to some family issues, (sister in law with Alzheimers) but on my scouting trips up in this neck of the woods I was able to find open campgrounds all over SW Montana and beyond quite easily. Excellent ones at that and if not the greatest campgrounds at least close to strategic places. Granted late Sunday-Thursdays are the best time to grab one but even on weekends empty campsites existed if you knew where to look. This brings up the next suggestion. Free Roam and the Ultimate Public Campground Apps. Wouldn't be without them. Free Roam specializes in free boon docking sites and while UPC app list free but also pay sites. Most importantly they list whether these public campgrounds are RSVP's or FCFS. Back in April we took off for TX to bring sister in law back to MT and had no problem what so ever traveling through UT and NM obtaining public campsites. It didn't hurt that we had traveled to these places numerous times and knew where to go for our favorites. Keep in mind this was smack dab in the middle of Spring break for many college students. However like others here, I am concerned about the future of easy camping the way most of us have known and loved for decades. The population of the US has at least tripled over the last 30-40 years and even if only a very small portion of this increase wants to camp one doesn't have to be a CPA to figure this will put additional burden on what existing wilderness and public lands we do have. Times have changed.

I was also thinking a cut to exact size piece of high density rigid insulation attached to the top of the solar panels would work to alleviate those sharp corners while also serving as a bit on protection from storms, hail and such.

@tallmandan are you saying this cover will not fit an Oliver that has solar panels mounted to the top? Its not clear to me from the photos but guessing it might not work with mounted panels.

You can buy 4 of these for the price of the CalMark and have money left over. The last time I checked the CalMark was over $1300 shipped. Thanks

While I've spent lots of time in NM I am not familiar with any of the CG's mentioned above other than the state park in Bernalillo. As stated its small, quiet and a bit tight but the worst part is getting in and out of the damn thing. Access is on a very busy highway often with some construction going on. More trouble than its worth unless its for just a night or two. Sounds like you need a full hook up site closer into ABQ. Best of luck.

I was forced into installing a Furrion a few years ago. The night before we were to leave on a trip someone broke into my truck and stole the monitor to the old Voyager that Oliver was installing at the time. FWIW while we used that device I also hated its gangly mess of wires and terrible picture quality and bulky size. The only available cameras locally were the Furriions so I bought that as a replacement and installed. Sorry I don't recall the model name or number so it may or may not be the Vision S. It is marginally better than the original Voyager but comes in a much smaller package which I appreciate.However the monitor itself is not very bright which is a problem when wearing shades while driving, its quite dim. The connection seems to be better however than the Voyager and can't recall too many times where the signal was lost but it can be jittery on occasions. Installation while not too difficult does take a bit of time, syncing was easy. Cutting to the chase if I had it to do over I would have purchased something different and may still do at some time in the future. There is another brand, sorry I don't recall the name that receives a much better review than either the Furrion or Voyager. My recommendation is do your homework before jumping in. Not sure this helps much.

Curious how heavy are these to flip out of the way to get into the basement areas? Memory foam as a rule tends to be heavy and gangly to deal with. Nice job on the cutting though.