routlaw

It probably would, but the logistics and effort of removing 4 Trojan T-105's just to install one single 12 volt batter of known quantity would be a major PITA. And @Rivernerd makes a good point about their age as well. Thanks

Another quick update regarding furnace failure. At this point after several days of testing and analyzing the situation all indicators point to failing batteries after 7 years of use. Can't be absolutely be certain of this but the last two days we have had very cold temps overnight. This morning was 17º and yesterdaymid 20's in the morning. Both mornings even after a full charge from the previous day the batteries measured 12.7+ volts but would not start the furnace and on both of those days once plugged into shore power the furnace started up and ran for an hour ± without issue. What puzzles me is, when is 12.7 volts ± a fraction not really 12.7 volts. Makes no sense. Worth pointing out however with milder temps and with batteries in this SOC (state of charge) the furnace lit up. Clearly however the battery pack simply did not have the power to run the fan fast enough to trip the sail switch under colder temps. I could replace the sail switch but from all indications it measures and seems work just fine. Hopefully this info will help anyone else when and if they stumble into similar issues. Would love to do the Lithium as replacements, doubt I will do lead acid again but at least AGM. Suggestions and thoughts appreciated.

The Oliver is our third RV in over 20 years, started with a Coleman pop-up, then a T@b and now over 7 years with the Elite II. With that in mind I have no illusions, grand or not about RV's in general having the same standard as the housing market. In fact my intro subject line could have read "RV appliances s*ck" and they truly do or at least the vast majority of them. If the housing and automobile industry performed to the same standards as the RV industry there would be so many class actions lawsuits it would fill and clog up the court system.

I've been to Chaco several times but not with my Oliver though I would like to at some point. It really depends on what time of year you visit this place or more importantly how soon after the last maintenance grading was performed. Only once have I seen it where it drove like a well maintained gravel road, the other times and one in particular was a very slow go even without towing due to the roughness and excessive washboarding and trenches. It's a crap shoot whether or not anyone would hit it shortly after a fresh grading. I don't recall how long the road is, but 18 miles seems a bit short to me. Figure about an hour to get in there towing and if it goes quicker consider yourself lucky. One word of caution, if you decide to take the side trip to Pueblo Pintado its my understanding NOT to do it from the paved road off highway 550. Apparently this road is extremely rough and better approached from within Chaco itself. All that out of the way Chaco is an amazing place and well worth the visit.

Just wanted to provide a quick update on my Suburban furnace issue for those of you who have graciously helped and for others who might share an interest. Took the entire thing apart and out of the cabin today. Sail switch worked fine and measured as it should when triggered, ignitor was in good shape but cleaned it to be sure, found no debris, insects or other detritus infested within the heat chamber or furnace cabinet and in fact given some of the dusty back country roads this thing has been on the entire thing was quite clean for the most part. Blew it out anyway. I have no way testing the limit switch or the circuit control board which is about the only thing left but there was nothing that might have indicated their malfunction either. All electrical connections were tight and showed no signs of corrosion. Back to the drawing board. Its supposed to turn cold again here in Big Sky Country tomorrow so I'll see what happens in the morning. Leaving shore power off for the night. In the meantime, I have discovered our Blue Sky Solar controller boost has also died. This came out of nowhere. The good news is a quick call and email to the company Sun Force produced superior customer service. They will repair this for free, all I have to do is ship it to them. Unbelievable after 7 years of use! Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. rob

What Mike and Carol said! They are easy to tow and maneuver as well as anything else out there and far better than most. We just returned from a 10ish day trip to the Utah deserts with no hookups except one night and could have gone without that but it was there and we paid for it in a state park so why not use it. I agree with others if your'e looking for a hard core overland camper the Ollie is not the best choice but it does well enough on USFS, BLM backcountry roads as long as they are not extremely rocky and rough.

Others may disagree but we have stored our Elite II with 4 lead acid batteries over long Montana winter months with no issues for 7 years now. All I have done is to make sure they are fully charged, then turn off solar, and all parasitic battery drains. Once I bring the camper out of storage they still maintain a charge of 12.8 volts ± a fraction. If you leaved them plugged in and continually charging you will most like boil the water out of them doing more damage in the long run than disconnecting. Note this includes solar charging as well. After over 7 years our 4 batteries are just now starting to diminish a slight amount as of this past winter. Hope this helps.

Wow! What a nightmare, so glad you came out without any serious injuries or worse. Unbelievable.

John thanks for sharing this information, good stuff. The thing is our furnace did not work properly from the get go even before hitting red rock roads. Our first few nights were spent at the Nine Mile Guest Ranch with all paved roads in. Have had the Nine Mile Road on my bucket list for years to experience the abundant petroglyphs and pictographs. Regardless I will check all connections just to make sure dust and dirt is not the culprit. It was unseasonably cold down in southern Utah on this trip and we came home to near winter conditions with howling winds so have not had made the effort to get out there and start tearing things apart. Frankly I would prefer to spend the time installing a new heating system rather than continuing to repair a piece of crap furnace. We were amazed at how well the Mr Buddy performed during the trip and had to use it every morning. It did produce some condensation on the windows which was mostly there already from two people sleeping in a cold cabin. Never noticed any smell, even far less than lighting up the cooktop actually. It was dead quiet too. Went through 1 & 1/2 bottles of propane for the entire trip. Night temps were down to the low 30's and probably a few nights sinking into the higher 20's.

@CnC Don't think that is the issue, but this also occurred to me since we started out with a partially used tank but after several failed attempts I switched to the other tank that was absolutely full and results were the same. Honestly at this point I would convert to one of the better heating systems like Alde or Truma in a heartbeat if they would allow end users to install. I agree with John Davies though the hot water heating system of Alde would be my preference but it would be a nightmare to retrofit an already built out Oliver. We have hot water heat in our home here in Montana and would never go back to forced air if given the option. Good video @SeaDawg thanks for sharing that one. I got a chuckle out of the Truma rep when he said 60% efficiency on standard RV heating systems. He might have missed that by 10 or 20 points being too optimistic.

Yes that is correct.

Wish I owned one of those Atwoods, unfortunately the Suburbans are a major PITA to work on. The entire thing has to be removed from the camper to get to anything but the ignitor. I've done this before, its an all day affair due to the limited working space. Even the compartment dividers to the storage area in the rear have to be removed. Anyway was hoping all indicators would not point to the sail switch for this reason. Regardless thanks for linking the video, it was helpful even though it is for an Atwood.

Actually I still have the 4 lead acid batteries but they are all good still keeping a charge so low voltage for sure wasn't the issue. Have camped in even colder weather before not that it was balmy on this trip and furnace worked fine with the lead acid. Tried calling Suburban earlier today and their voice mail cut the phone call of once they knew I was not an authorized service tech. Apparently they don't want RV owners messing with these things any longer. Thanks.

Thanks for the info and thoughts. The times that the furnace did kick on you could hear the ignitor, then the flame kick on, otherwise a no go. Why the colder air causes a problem is beyond me though. BTW hot water heater worked fine, as did the gas cook top. Taking these things (Suburban is a major PITA) having done this before. Atwoods are much easier to work on.

Apologies for the language but, just returned from a trip to southern Utah and as luck would have it our Suburban furnace would not operate yet again. This is the second time within the last couple of years however this time it would only fire up when the outside ambient temperature was around 50º or so, any colder than that and it would only start the fan which ran for 15 seconds or so then shut off. No matter how many times we turned the thermostat switch on and off we got the same results until of course the outside temps got up to 50º or so but then it's not needed at that point. Anyone have any ideas on what might cause this? FWIW I replaced the ignitor a couple of years ago and would not have thought to go bad so soon. Also all other gas appliances worked perfectly. We had to purchase a Mr Buddy heater for the trip otherwise no heat in some unseasonably cold weather every night. Funny that thing puts out almost as much heat in the lowest setting of 4,000 BTU as the 16,000 BTU Suburban puts out, probably due to its efficiency and the lack of with the furnace at 40% or so efficiency. Thanks

Fascinating the differences on this issue, but thanks or the info. Presumably then you let the extra links dangle loose until you got home? Regarding the length if you look at the Andersen website they offer an extension of links couple link, think they call it a D-ring, but provide this as 6 links which are almost 1 foot in length so 23 of them would be getting fairly close to 4 feet. Oh well.

@Trainman curious Jason at Oliver told me 23 links were needed plus a link connector deal. I was figuring each link was about 2 inches long going by the description on the Andersen website which would make the entire extension roughly 4 foot long which seems like a lot. An approximate measure from just behind the hitch (guessing where the triangle plate might end) was close to 60 inches to the rear most area of the frame where the clamps would be installed. Jason quoted me $623.00 + shipping. No idea what shipping would be but at 60 lbs probably close to $50 these days going ground. Thanks

Can someone explain to me why such a long set of extra links are needed for the Oliver/Andersen hookup? Most of the installation videos I've seen install the clamping bars about halfway back on the A Frame with resulting chain being significantly shorter than what Oliver recommends. I realize the clamps mount onto the inner frame member but can't understand why the need for them to be all the way to the back. Are the additional links supplied by Andersen as extras, or can any off the shelf link be used assuming it of the same size and caliber? After reading through this conversation I am making the decision to incorporate the Andersen although after 7 years of towing without it I'm not convinced of the need, but the insurance and liability part was what convinced me so I'm belling up to the bar for this one. Thanks.

Quick additional note. While I did this with a Tundra and T@b (a very light trailer) in the past I doubt I would do it again FWIW.

I live in SW Montana and have been over the Beartooth Highway countless times. I have an F150 Super Crew and would not do it, period. Back when we had a T@b we crossed a couple of times with a Tundra TV (much shorter wheel base) and even that was pushing the envelope IMHO. During the summer months this road, as remote and extreme as it is can be very busy with a constant stream of traffic both directions including but not limited to lots of motorcycles. Aside from the fact there are very tight hairpin turns on the switchbacks and a lot of them at that, this road is extremely steep especially on the decent into Montana from the Wyoming side. This is a road that does not allow for mistakes. As for camping the Rock Creek area on the Montana side after cruising through Red Lodge all require RSVP's but there are some crude boon docking sites in the area if you know where to look. Back on the Wyoming side and between YNP and the ascent up to the passes there are several nice campgrounds albeit not very large ones that are all first come first serve. Mosquitos even at 9000 ft elevation and above are absolutely relentless up there so be forewarned and they are up at the crack of dawn, first light. Pray for wind. My preferred route is approaching from YNP and the west, then descend back into Montana. The Rock Creek campgrounds are nice but you'll need to RSVP way ahead of schedule they fill up constantly all summer. The drive in from the Montana side assuming you go through Roscoe is a gorgeous drive but again its very winding with lots of ups and downs and whoop-di-doos. This road is skinny with NO shoulder once you are passed Roscoe and the final leg to Red Lodge. There is another route from Billings/Laurel to Red Lodge but its boring as hell compared to the route south of Columbus. In all the years of crossing/driving over the highway and I cannot recall once seeing anyone towing a travel trailer even with modest size ones like the Oliver. I tend to er on the side of caution. One thing goes wrong on a route like this and you'll be into some very big trouble quickly taking others with you. Hopefully this helps.

Having read through this entire thread, clearly the term winter and cold weather is a relative term. Last night our temps dropped down to -7º F with wind chill of -35º F and most of February and so far the bulk of March has been like this or close to it. Under these circumstances the Oliver is NOT a 4 season camper IMHO. We have camped numerous times when temps were in the mid teens to mid 20's + or - a few degrees and the Oliver does reasonable well, but I have always felt the furnace is underrated at 16,000 BTU input and running at 40-50% efficiency this allows for only about 8,000 BTU's of actual useable heat which would be fine in a highly efficient well insulated enclosure. There have been some excellent suggestions in regards to remote sensors, portable propane heaters and such which I have owned a few of but sold due to lack of use. I'm thinking it would be wise to pick one up again in case of emergencies. Using electric heaters here in Montana winters is a mixed bag at best. Last winter I got caught unprepared and did not get the Oliver winterized before we were hit with an early winter storm in Sept or Oct (memory is a bit fuzzy on this) which lasted for days. I have 3 electric portable heaters and not a one of them could keep our Oliver warmer than the low 40's for days on end of running them non stop. So just a word of caution there are limits to Olivers claim of 4 season camper. Not trying to beat up on Oliver but from my perspective 4 season camper is relative. Thanks for the great suggestion.

We also have the rear view camera, however the factory installed one was stolen out of our truck a few years ago so I installed a different brand. Truthfully I really didn't like the factory installed one anyway, too gangly with all the wires and monitor was terrible. I installed a Fusion which was marginally better with the monitor and more importantly with a significantly smaller footprint. If I had it to do again would have bought another brand. Maybe Oliver has also changed the brand of rear view cameras by now compared to the original we had. They are very useful however, and wouldn't want to be without one.

My door sticker for tire inflation states 35 psi front and back for normal use, but there is a nebulous area in the manual hinting at raising tire pressure when towing but doesn't state anything specific in terms of PSI. Like others comments here I have mostly bought Michelins too and the ones I currently have are really nice and quiet and smooth riding, however probably not the best for running around in the backroads of Utah and other areas of the SW where we like to travel to as often as possible thus the interest in the highly rated Cooper AT3's. FWIW I have used Coopers on other vehicles with excellent results but not the AT3's. Thanks for the feedback.

Do you folks increase the tire pressure at least in the rear while towing and if so by how much? I have always done this albeit not scientifically and there seems to be no end to the amount of conflicting information about this on the internet. Some people swear the front tires need to be increased also, but this makes no logical sense to me. Thus far I have increased my rears from the recommended 35 psi to 40-45 psi but leave the fronts at their normal rating. Finally my current set of tires have been on my F150 for 9 years now and still not worn out and visually look fine, with probably another 10-15,000 miles left on them. I figure I should replace now before camping and touring season starts up. I currently have the Michelin LTX M/S on, but considering the Cooper Discover AT3 AS4's. Anyone have experience with either or have another suggestion. Thanks a bunch.

I also tow a Legacy Elite II with an F150 with 3.5 Eco Boost engine, and completely agree with the other comments you should get the 3.5 not the 2.7 L engine otherwise you're stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. You'll be glad you did in the long run. However I do not nor ever have used the WDH for towing and still don't feel its necessary, at least for me, however this is a very personal decision. Good luck.