Ground Neutral Plug use?

[Gliddenwoods]

I want to charge my Oliver with  Blueitti (sp?) battery "solar generator". 

Is it correct that I need to plug a "ground neutral plug" in one of the Bluetti outlets to make it work correctly?

[FloraFauna]

I needed to do so with my Champion generator.  

[Snackchaser]

I've never heard of a Blueitti.  However there are a similar issues with a  Jackery.  They have what's called a floating neutral.  Also common in some generators.  So yes, a floating neutral requires a neutral to ground bonding plug.  Otherwise the Electrical Management System (EMS) will see it as an open ground.  

But there is a problem.   Many  (if not all) of these power packs have no reference to ground what-so-ever.  So the "u-ground" pin hole of the receptacle is not connected to anything, it's just an open hole.  So a neutral to ground bonding plug wouldn't connect to anything in the ground pin hole, and it won't work.  

Now that I've confused everyone, including myself, there is a bypass trick.  Use a 1-outlet to 3-outlet adapter, or an extension cord with a "Wye" that provides 3 extra outlets to plug into.  Plug the neutral to ground bonding plug into one the extra outlets to effectively bond the neutral and ground... despite there being no ground on the power pack.   Cool huh.  

This is one of many reasons to have a $10 plug-in circuit tester, the ones with three lights that show various conditions such as open grounds.  I recommend you test all circuits when rigging such power supplies.

Cheers!  Geoff

[Gliddenwoods]

47 minutes ago, FloraFauna said:

I needed to do so with my Champion generator.  

Into an outlet in the Oliver or in the generator?

[Gliddenwoods]

4 minutes ago, Snackchaser said:

I've never heard of a Blueitti.  However there are a similar issues with a  Jackery.  They have what's called a floating neutral.  Also common in some generators.  So yes, a floating neutral requires a neutral to ground bonding plug.  Otherwise the Electrical Management System (EMS) will see it as an open ground.  

But there is a problem.   Many  (if not all) of these power packs have no reference to ground what-so-ever.  So the "u-ground" pin hole of the receptacle is not connected to anything, it's just an open hole.  So a neutral to ground bonding plug wouldn't connect to anything in the ground pin hole, and it won't work.  

Now that I've confused everyone, including myself, there is a bypass trick.  Use a 1-outlet to 3-outlet adapter, or an extension cord with a "Wye" that provides 3 extra outlets to plug into.  Plug the neutral to ground bonding plug into one the extra outlets to effectively bond the neutral and ground... despite there being no ground on the power pack.   Cool huh.  

This is one of many reasons to have a $10 plug-in circuit tester, the ones with three lights that show various conditions such as open grounds.  I recommend you test all circuits when rigging such power supplies.

Cheers!  Geoff

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.bluettipower.com/collections/solar-generators%3Fsrsltid%3DAfmBOorYwy_9QQeUU5f8w-gieqaqxkTNeuxvTgwk7-IXFxfPsFHY-ShT&ved=2ahUKEwiZwsmvkJKVAxXDmisGHevaGgUQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1JV2q4OjzofNCgrtpnFEQd

[Steph and Dud B]

37 minutes ago, Gliddenwoods said:

Into an outlet in the Oliver or in the generator?

A generator. There is another option in a pinch. You can use the Bypass switch on your EMS control panel (ours is in the "attic" over the bed). This will keep the EMS from blocking power from the "ungrounded" generator, but it will also remove all protection provided by the EMS. However, power from the Bluetti is already supposed to be clean, right?

[Gliddenwoods]

27 minutes ago, Steph and Dud B said:

A generator. There is another option in a pinch. You can use the Bypass switch on your EMS control panel (ours is in the "attic" over the bed). This will keep the EMS from blocking power from the "ungrounded" generator, but it will also remove all protection provided by the EMS. However, power from the Bluetti is already supposed to be clean, right?

That sounds dangerous and I could fry something; yes?

[Steph and Dud B]

32 minutes ago, Gliddenwoods said:

That sounds dangerous and I could fry something; yes?

Not really. Lots of people have RVs with no EMS system at all. The EMS cuts off power to your rig if the voltage is too high/low, the wires are not connected properly, or the source has the wrong Hertz (cycles per second). Cheap generators can have all of those problems. Shore power can be wired incorrectly or have voltage issues. Check your specs, but most new Bluetti power stations use a pure sine-wave inverter. That means the power should be "clean" enough for sensitive electronics. Almost certainly safer than plugging into shore power at a campground.

I got this from an AI search: "Bluetti power stations are very safe for sensitive electronics. All Bluetti units use pure sine wave inverters. This mimics the clean, stable power of a standard wall outlet, preventing screen flickering, overheating, and data loss for devices like laptops, TVs, and CPAP machines... Avoid ECO Mode: If using a Bluetti solar generator, users on PowerEquipmentForum suggest turning off the "ECO mode" for the most stable and reliable power delivery to sensitive electronics."

[FloraFauna]

9 hours ago, Gliddenwoods said:

Into an outlet in the Oliver or in the generator?

Into the outlet on the generator.  I believe this is an artifact of the lack of a grounding rod and grounded electrical system on the trailer (which would be totally impractical).

[CRM]

13 hours ago, Gliddenwoods said:

Into an outlet in the Oliver or in the generator?

Never at an outlet. This is known as a "bootleg ground" and can cause dangerous situations.

[Snackchaser]

The bonding plug needs to be at the source -- the Bluetti or generator outlets.  Not an outlet in the trailer.  

Because the Bluetti outlet has nothing connected to the ground, the bonding plug cannot join the ground and neutral.  Therefor a one-to-three outlet adapter can be plugged into the Bluetti, one of the three adapter outlets gets the bonding plug, another gets the trailer feed cord, and the third is a spare.  That effectively bonds the ground and neutral.

Bonding at the power source has always been required by code, these power packs just add a new dynamic.

Someone had an idea to use the EMS bypass "in a pinch."  This isn't risk free, but it would be fine for getting the lights on while finding the bonding plug.  The EMS is actually protecting the trailer from an un-bonded neutral that the bonding plug fixes.  

Keep in mind that these power supplies are perfectly fine for single power cord loads as designed.  They are not designed to be connected to a trailer where the wiring system assumes a bonded supply.  

Cheers!  Geoff 

Edited 1 hour ago by Snackchaser