Day/Night Window Shade Questions

[topgun2]

Promise not to laugh!😂

From my post of October, 2023 above I "finally" got a chance to get back to that shade on the floor of my workshop.  No, I'm not completely finished yet - don't want to rush it - but I'm close.

In fact, I'm close enough to to let everyone know that it takes between 14.5 and 15 feet of string to complete one side of the whole deal - that is either the night shade OR the day shade.  Obviously, both sides would take double that or up to 30 feet of string!  That amazed me - where in the world does all that string go?

Bill

[mossemi]

2 hours ago, topgun2 said:

That amazed me - where in the world does all that string go?

Are you sure you didn’t use some for backing on your fly reel?

Mossey

[topgun2]

Another thing I learned from this project - 

trying to feed the string through those little holes in the shade material is something that only a seamstress could do.

Therefore, before even starting - simply take about 3 inches of the string and let it soak for a couple of hours in some varnish.  Then let it dry and you have a reasonably stiff end to the string that makes threading it much easier.

Bill

[topgun2]

As one might guess - this re-stringing project has not been very high on my "to-do" list over the winter.

Unfortunately, it is getting very close to 2024 camping season and that shade has now been taken apart and put back together about 5 times - all without success.  I USED to be fairly proud of my ability to follow directions/drawings but Steve's "sharp stick in the eye" must have done me in.

Anyway - I contacted the company that makes the shade - Auto-Motion Shades - and they sent me the diagrams below.  Certainly @rideandfly 's drawings are good - but - these (at least for me) are better.  Hope they help!

Bill

Note that in the drawing of the cord layout, the screen portion of the window is at the top while the nightshade portion is at the bottom.

CordLayout TPS-720 Cord Layout.pdfCordLayout TPS-720 Cord Layout.pdfCordLayout TPS-720 Cord Layout.pdfCordLayout TPS-720 Cord Layout.pdf

Edited March 17 by topgun2

[topgun2]

And - here we are on April 16th, 2024!

The good news is that I've now (finally) got the shade back together (for about the 10th time) and the BIG exception as compared to the other 9 times is that it now works!

I never thought that I'd have to be concerned with "string theory".  But in the case of these shades there are a couple of VERY important things that one should pay attention to.

The reason why it took me 10 times to get it correct was that my intent was to only replace the string that broke.  I did this according to the diagram(s) that I found in this thread.  I paid careful attention to the route that this string took in those diagrams, but, in each instance once the shade was put back together and the spring tension set, I would quickly see that the string would not stay taught on one side or the other.

Long story - but this problem got me to thinking - where does the string go when I raise the blind?  About the same time I retrieved another shade from the Ollie hoping that it might give me some idea of were I was going wrong.

In looking at the shade I knew was functioning properly and I (finally) noticed that the string routing on the side that was not broken was different than either the night shade and/or the properly functioning shade from the Ollie.  This is when I (finally) realized exactly how these shade manage the string - one side takes up the string while the other side basically pushes it out and the spring simply helps smooth out that process.

In the diagram from the factory - if you follow it closely - it can been seen that the string goes from the spring, through the corner frame piece, through the lower pull bar (the bar that is used for raise and lower the night shade) and into the upper pull bar (the bar used to raise and lower the screen).  But instead of going through this bar, the string takes a turn and travels through the bar under the bottom part of the shade where the shade is held by this bar.  I pulled the string down this bar until it came to a grommet that passes through the bottom of the screen, and is then threaded upwards through the holes in the screen fabric.  Once this is complete the threading continues through the top of the screen and into the area just above the point where the screen is held in a track at the bottom of the frame itself.  Once again, the string then turns and travels back to the original side of the shade where there is a second grommet.  Passing through that grommet and then the holes in the screen fabric until coming back to the bar that is used to raise and lower the screen.  Back into the narrow track on the bottom side of this bar that holds the screen it is just a short distance (a couple of inches) back to the end piece of the bar where the string feeds over a small metal "roller" and then takes a 90 degree turn back towards the area where the original spring is located.  Again, paying close attention to the drawing and to the opposite side to make sure that the routing was the same on both sides I finally got back to the spring.  In tying the string back to the spring I had to use a pick in order to get some stretch in the spring.  It took more stretch than I would have thought but I needed to take up all of the slack in the string plus make the string taught such that the screen would not "flap" in the breeze.

The whole "issue" was that the original stringing from the shade factory was NOT the same as the stringing shown in the drawing above.  Instead of passing the string through that second bar (the one used to raise and lower the screen) and then threaded UP through the screening, the string continued up into the top frame piece and down into the screening (i.e. the reverse direction).  While I don't think that there is anything "wrong" with this, the problem is that BOTH sides must be strung in the same manner (i.e. in the same direction).

Of course I could have avoided a bunch of work and worry if I had simply paid attention to how the broken string side was routed in the first place.  But, of course, I simply pulled out the broken string - mistake!

Hopefully the above makes some sense and you avoid the issues I encountered.  I'd be happy to do a "show & tell" at the Rally for anyone that really wants to see what I'm talking about - just let me know and we'll work on a time and place to do a one on one.

Bill 

Edited April 16 by topgun2

[John Dorrer]

2 hours ago, topgun2 said:

And - here we are on April 16th, 2024!

The good news is that I've now (finally) got the shade back together (for about the 10th time) and the BIG exception as compared to the other 9 times is that it now works!

I never thought that I'd have to be concerned with "string theory".  But in the case of these shades there are a couple of VERY important things that one should pay attention to.

The reason why it took me 10 times to get it correct was that my intent was to only replace the string that broke.  I did this according to the diagram(s) that I found in this thread.  I paid careful attention to the route that this string took in those diagrams, but, in each instance once the shade was put back together and the spring tension set, I would quickly see that the string would not stay taught on one side or the other.

Long story - but this problem got me to thinking - where does the string go when I raise the blind?  About the same time I retrieved another shade from the Ollie hoping that it might give me some idea of were I was going wrong.

In looking at the shade I knew was functioning properly and I (finally) noticed that the string routing on the side that was not broken was different than either the night shade and/or the properly functioning shade from the Ollie.  This is when I (finally) realized exactly how these shade manage the string - one side takes up the string while the other side basically pushes it out and the spring simply helps smooth out that process.

In the diagram from the factory - if you follow it closely - it can been seen that the string goes from the spring, through the corner frame piece, through the lower pull bar (the bar that is used for raise and lower the night shade) and into the upper pull bar (the bar used to raise and lower the screen).  But instead of going through this bar, the string takes a turn and travels through the bar under the bottom part of the shade where the shade is held by this bar.  I pulled the string down this bar until it came to a grommet that passes through the bottom of the screen, and is then threaded upwards through the holes in the screen fabric.  Once this is complete the threading continues through the top of the screen and into the area just above the point where the screen is held in a track at the bottom of the frame itself.  Once again, the string then turns and travels back to the original side of the shade where there is a second grommet.  Passing through that grommet and then the holes in the screen fabric until coming back to the bar that is used to raise and lower the screen.  Back into the narrow track on the bottom side of this bar that holds the screen it is just a short distance (a couple of inches) back to the end piece of the bar where the string feeds over a small metal "roller" and then takes a 90 degree turn back towards the area where the original spring is located.  Again, paying close attention to the drawing and to the opposite side to make sure that the routing was the same on both sides I finally got back to the spring.  In tying the string back to the spring I had to use a pick in order to get some stretch in the spring.  It took more stretch than I would have thought but I needed to take up all of the slack in the string plus make the string taught such that the screen would not "flap" in the breeze.

The whole "issue" was that the original stringing from the shade factory was NOT the same as the stringing shown in the drawing above.  Instead of passing the string through that second bar (the one used to raise and lower the screen) and then threaded UP through the screening, the string continued up into the top frame piece and down into the screening (i.e. the reverse direction).  While I don't think that there is anything "wrong" with this, the problem is that BOTH sides must be strung in the same manner (i.e. in the same direction).

Of course I could have avoided a bunch of work and worry if I had simply paid attention to how the broken string side was routed in the first place.  But, of course, I simply pulled out the broken string - mistake!

Hopefully the above makes some sense and you avoid the issues I encountered.  I'd be happy to do a "show & tell" at the Rally for anyone that really wants to see what I'm talking about - just let me know and we'll work on a time and place to do a one on one.

Bill 

Gotta tell you, reading this made me dizzy🤣🤣 I've been following this. Great job on the repair and for being very determined to. I would say that was at least a 3-beer job, but likely a 24-can job. Safe to say, I have no desire to do what you did😎

Edited April 16 by John Dorrer
Typo

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, John Dorrer said:

I have no desire to do what you did😎

The process is actually not all that tough and now I'm sure that I could do it again fairly quickly - about an hour.

My "problem" was that the one side of the repair was done differently than the drawing showed and I didn't recognize that until I finally decided to replace the string that was not broken.

Of course part of what made me so determined was the fact that for the sake of a stupid string I was going to have to fork over around $1,000 for a full set of "white" frames!

Bill

[johnwen]

Well, now that a second blind broke a string, I had better get busy with a new plan (Stan) :)

John

Edited April 16 by johnwen

[Mike and Carol]

1 hour ago, johnwen said:

Well, now that a second blind broke a string, I had better get busy with a new plan (Stan) 🙂

John, as Bill has shown, it can be done.  I had two blinds on the kitchen counter for several days as I did the re-stringing thing a couple years ago.  One came out fine, the other one I had too tight which made it difficult to raise the lower shade.  Had to loosen up the strings a bit, now it’s fine.  Just plan some time and be patient!  Mike

[Ronbrink]

On 2/7/2024 at 12:23 PM, topgun2 said:

In fact, I'm close enough to to let everyone know that it takes between 14.5 and 15 feet of string to complete one side of the whole deal - that is either the night shade OR the day shade.  Obviously, both sides would take double that or up to 30 feet of string!  That amazed me - where in the world does all that string go?

“Oh what tangled webs we weave”. Your persistence definitely paid off, good job!

[johnwen]

10 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

John, as Bill has shown, it can be done.  I had two blinds on the kitchen counter for several days as I did the re-stringing thing a couple years ago.  One came out fine, the other one I had too tight which made it difficult to raise the lower shade.  Had to loosen up the strings a bit, now it’s fine.  Just plan some time and be patient!  Mike

Thanks for the encouragement, Mike.  Reckon I'll try to find some replacement string soon as I'm trying to make plans for the Maine rally and maybe someone there has attempted this ... I may need supervision.  

[rideandfly]

12 hours ago, johnwen said:

Well, now that a second blind broke a string, I had better get busy with a new plan (Stan) 🙂

John

 

30 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Thanks for the encouragement, Mike.  Reckon I'll try to find some replacement string soon as I'm trying to make plans for the Maine rally and maybe someone there has attempted this ... I may need supervision.  

Initially it looked complicated, but after working on the first shade, it was not. Like Mike said, be patient. 🙂

[topgun2]

37 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Reckon I'll try to find some replacement string soon

While I used 1.0 mm cord, I believe that .08 mm cord would be closer to the original size and just might be easier to work with.  Cord in both sizes can be found on Amazon HERE.

Bill

[johnwen]

1 minute ago, topgun2 said:

While I used 1.0 mm cord, I believe that .08 mm cord would be closer to the original size and just might be easier to work with.  Cord in both sizes can be found on Amazon HERE.

Bill

Thanks, Bill.  I was just going back to the beginning of this thread from 2017 to find the string description...you saved me some time :)  although I think I'll finish the thread for fun...I need to find out if Steve (not pickin' on you Steve :)) is still eating bugs :) :) :)

[johnwen]

On 4/17/2024 at 7:57 AM, johnwen said:

 

 

Edited April 19 by johnwen

[johnwen]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:32 PM, Mike and Carol said:

John, as Bill has shown, it can be done.  I had two blinds on the kitchen counter for several days as I did the re-stringing thing a couple years ago.  One came out fine, the other one I had too tight which made it difficult to raise the lower shade.  Had to loosen up the strings a bit, now it’s fine.  Just plan some time and be patient!  Mike

Hi Mike,

I have started on this project and printed out all the diagrams but after the 4 frame corners are disassembled where do I start?  Start at the spring and let the routing of the the string make its journey through all the channels and holes and back to the spring?  I can't see how I can pass the string through the upper and lower screen rails unless I connect the old string to the new string to pass through those blind rails and through the grommets.  The plugs on the ends of the screen rails can be removed by removing 2 steel pins on each end but it doesn't open up any space to speak of to run the string up and through the grommets.  I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious but can't see where to proceed after the corners of the frame are opened up.  I'll put a call in to the company tomorrow and see what they have to say.  But now I have things put back together and reinstalled.  The night shade is being held up with a spring clip for now and will be ok until I can find a way to proceed.  Thanks for any help :)

John

 

[Mike and Carol]

On 9/29/2024 at 7:40 PM, johnwen said:

Hi Mike,

I have started on this project and printed out all the diagrams but after the 4 frame corners are disassembled where do I start?  Start at the spring and let the routing of the the string make its journey through all the channels and holes and back to the spring?  I can't see how I can pass the string through the upper and lower screen rails unless I connect the old string to the new string to pass through those blind rails and through the grommets.  The plugs on the ends of the screen rails can be removed by removing 2 steel pins on each end but it doesn't open up any space to speak of to run the string up and through the grommets.  I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious but can't see where to proceed after the corners of the frame are opened up.  I'll put a call in to the company tomorrow and see what they have to say.  But now I have things put back together and reinstalled.  The night shade is being held up with a spring clip for now and will be ok until I can find a way to proceed.  Thanks for any help 🙂

John

 

John, as I recall (it’s been a couple of years) I started at the bottom on one side of the spring and wound my way around the frame/through the shades.  I wrapped tape around the ends of the string to assist getting it through the holes in the shade.  It’s one continuous run so you end up at the other side of the spring on the bottom.  It’s a little tricky getting the right tension on the spring so that you don’t have the shade too loose or too tight.  I did one of each, one wouldn’t stay up and one was very difficult to move.  It’s easy enough to untie and change the tension.  Mike

[johnwen]

10 hours ago, Mike and Carol said:

John, as I recall (it’s been a couple of years) I started at the bottom on one side of the spring and wound my way around the frame/through the shades.  I wrapped tape around the ends of the string to assist getting it through the holes in the shade.  It’s one continuous run so you end up at the other side of the spring on the bottom.  It’s a little tricky getting the right tension on the spring so that you don’t have the shade too loose or too tight.  I did one of each, one wouldn’t stay up and one was very difficult to move.  It’s easy enough to untie and change the tension.  Mike

Thanks, Mike,

Do you remember how you snaked the string along the inside of the upper and lower grab bars and made the 90 degree turn through the brass grommets?

John

[Mike and Carol]

56 minutes ago, johnwen said:

Thanks, Mike,

Do you remember how you snaked the string along the inside of the upper and lower grab bars and made the 90 degree turn through the brass grommets?

John

John, I don’t remember exactly but I found some pictures I took in case I needed to do another one (and I did!).  Here’s what I found…

 

[johnwen]

Mike

It looks as if you were able to separate the blind from the plastic pulldown bar, in the 6th picture, and that's where I think I need to run the string. 

John

[Mike and Carol]

John, as I recall there are screws that hold the corners in place.  I think I just studied how the string was routed and then did the same with the new string.  Good luck!  Mike

[topgun2]

I used a thin piece of wire to help thread the string.

Yes, Mike is correct - there is a screw in each corner that holds the frame together.

The only other "hint" I can give is that however the string in routed on one side of the frame, you should/must route the string on the other side in the exact same manner.  If you don't, the shade will not work properly no matter how you set the tension of the spring (don't ask me how I know this!).

Bill

[johnwen]

32 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

I used a thin piece of wire to help thread the string.

Yes, Mike is correct - there is a screw in each corner that holds the frame together.

The only other "hint" I can give is that however the string in routed on one side of the frame, you should/must route the string on the other side in the exact same manner.  If you don't, the shade will not work properly no matter how you set the tension of the spring (don't ask me how I know this!).

Bill

Bill,

I saw Mike's post and it looks as if he was able to detach the pleated shade from the pull down bar which sure would make threading along that bar easier instead of using a wire.  I'll try the wire.  Thanks for the help Bill.

John

[johnwen]

7 hours ago, johnwen said:

Bill,

I saw Mike's post and it looks as if he was able to detach the pleated shade from the pull down bar which sure would make threading along that bar easier instead of using a wire.  I'll try the wire.  Thanks for the help Bill.

John

Update... I've been able to separate the pleated material from the upper and lower grab bars so I should be able to now route the new string.  One of Mike's pictures showed the blind separating from the grab bar so I persisted until it came apart.  I can now access the area I needed to.  Now to actually restring, adjust tension, and reassemble.  Will post result in a couple of days :)  (progress...I think)

John

[Mike and Carol]

3 hours ago, johnwen said:

I can now access the area I needed to.  Now to actually restring, adjust tension, and reassemble.  Will post result in a couple of days 🙂 (progress...I think)

Take your time!  I had the shade on the kitchen bar for a few days.