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Zamp PWM controller vs Blue sky mppt controller

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It's my understanding that the current solar controller being installed is the zamp pwm,were the prior blue sky controllers pwm or mppt?


STEVEnBETTY

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Hi,

 

The Blue Sky controller is MPPT technology.  I own an Ollie with Blue Sky gear.  On page five of the technical manual is the following section.

 

MAXIMUM POWER POINT TRACKING (MPPT) The 2512’s patented MPPT technology can increase charge current up to 30% or more compared to PWM controllers operating 36 cell PV modules. Principal operating conditions affecting current boost performance are PV cell temperature and battery voltage, with lower PV temperature and lower battery voltage producing greater charge current increase. In cool comfortable temperatures, most systems see about 10 – 20% increase. Increase may go to zero in hot temperatures, whereas charge current increase may easily exceed 30% with a discharged battery and freezing temperatures. MPPT also allows efficient use of higher voltage 60 cell modules by converting their much higher voltage down to battery voltage. Ignoring conversion losses, the conversion process produces an output current roughly equal to PV current times the ratio of PV voltage to battery voltage. If a 60-cell module is operating at 23V at 5 amps and battery voltage was 14V, output charge current would be about 5 amps’ times 23V ÷ 14V or about 8 amps. For a more complete MPPT description see www.blueskyenergyinc.com.

 

If you need additional info, just ask.

 

Buzzy

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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oliver is in the process of building our trailer (completion mid may?). Just trying to decide whether to stick with the zamp, or possibly upgrade to the blue sky. I've been following reed's post on his experiences with the zamp and I'm unsure which way I want to go. I guess it really comes down to your preferred camping style, boondocking, full hookups, or a combination of the two. This is the best description I've seen yet for someone like me still on the fence.

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STEVEnBETTY

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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For someone who has never used, or even seen up close, a solar power system: is it safe to sum it up, in the general consensus...the Zamp PWM is inferior to the Blue Sky? Or is it a cheaper or just simpler to use device? An upgrade to the Blue Sky? And the Blue Sky was the standard state of the art device used in the Oliver before?

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Here is another good article. LINK

 

It does come down to what your looking for. The biggest plus for PWM (Zamp) it seems is that it is good for prolonging the life of the batteries. The MPPT (Blue Sky) system is better for using whatever available light there is to maximize the charge to the battery.

 

This explains why I found that when my trailer was completely covered with the tarp the controller still showed it was sending +1 amp of charging to the batteries.


Randy


One Life Live It Enjoyably


2017 F350 6.7L SRW CC LB


2015 Oliver Elite II Hull #69

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For someone who has never used, or even seen up close, a solar power system: is it safe to sum it up, in the general consensus…the Zamp PWM is inferior to the Blue Sky? Or is it a cheaper or just simpler to use device? An upgrade to the Blue Sky? And the Blue Sky was the standard state of the art device used in the Oliver before?

 

Honestly, I don't know if it's inferior but it is different then what I'm used to. On my other Solar systems you could set it to show the actual amps that the pannel was putting out, not counting the battery. So that was throwing me off. I've seen the Zamp hit 17amps and you have to remember that the 320watt 3 pannel system is still just a 26.67amp service. 320watt ÷ 12vdc = 26.67, so here in the desert, if they are saying that I may see 18vdc max then we're losing out on another possible 8 amps or 33%.

 

In the article that Randy put on here for us, it says that you don't need a larger system for a 320watt to 20 amp system, so that would be fine, here's a pasted section -

 

PWM and MPPT solar charge controllers come in two basic styles: flush mount and wall mount. The style that’s best for you is usually determined by how much space you have in your rig and the size of your solar power system. Flush mount PWM and MPPT controllers are typically smaller, are better suited for smaller systems of around 340 watts (20 amps) or less, and are ideal for those situations when space is limited like in a truck camper. On the other hand, if you have a large solar power system, of say, 960 watts (50 amps), and you are planning on installing an MPPT type of controller, then you’ll need to mount it in either a large storage compartment or a large closet because of the controller’s physical size. Whatever you decide, whether it’s a flush mount or wall mount, PWM or MPPT, you’ll want to make sure that the controller is mounted in a location that is dry, has access to wiring, and can easily be viewed and accessed for maintenance.

 

Because I prefer to be off of the grid all of the time, it sounds like the Blue Star System would have been ideal for me because as it stands right now, I've seen the Zamp controller only hit 17 out of a possible 26amp system... And out of an entire month being basically in the sun, our batteries only reached a full charge once, just yesterday. And this was the kicker for me because I should have been seeing 20amps+ in the full desert sun and having it showing only 15.5 caused me to think that it was overcharging my batteries instead because I was expecting a larger amp reading coming from just the pannels. Maybe I did bring my generator for a reason, but I haven't had any reason to use it yet.

 

If you have read the Zamp manual, it just gives you the basic charge reading and the amperage is lowered to protect the batteries. They will protect my batteries if they run dry supposedly but I don't see that ever happening. So I'm going to read all about the blue sky unless BUZZY!!! does a video all about it for us :)

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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I'll interject this in the Zamp vs Blue Sky discussion. Both brands have two components: controller and display.  The controllers are merely the piece of equipment that is located under the bed and reduce the incoming voltage to a level that will not destroy your battery's.  The displays are surface mounted somewhere inside the cabin and tell you what's going on behind the scenes between your panels and battery's.  We have the Blue Sky setup.  Our controller is the Blue Sky 2512iX-HV. Our display is the Blue Sky IPN PRO.  This piece of equipment is very complex and it acts as both a programmer for the controller and a display for the system.  The manual will show that it has over 40 different parameters to deal with contained in 4 ever-deepening levels of menus and for myself, I considered this to have a pretty steep learning curve.  You do have the capability to see, modify and control way more things than with the Zamp display, but does (as I believe someone previously stated) the "average user" want to deal with all that.  To say all that's "better" is definitely in the eye of the beholder because, in the Blue Sky system, many of these parameters have to be set up.  Be it the ultimate consumer (you) or the factory personnel someone has to do it for this system to operate properly.

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher, Lucy and Rocky plus our beloved Storm and Maggie (both waiting at the Rainbow Bridge) 2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0026 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, HULL NUMBER: 0050 2017 Silverado High Country 2500HD Diesel 4x4 

 

      ALAKAZARCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKSKYLAMEMDMA       ABBCMBNSYTsm.jpg

 

 

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I read through the Blue Sky manual again as this is the controller that I had originally thought we were getting before we ordered our Olli. Oliver sure made a bunch of changes for 2017 and going to the Zamp controller was for ease of use. I've been using Solar to keep my RV's batteries charged for about 12 years, starting with the little single pannel Coleman that simply clamped to the battery back in the day that I still have and use on my trucks. According to Blue Sky, their pannel being an mppt, will give you 30% more power... Right now, I'm missing 30% of the power that I was use to seeing with my Renogy Solar Suitcase which also has a bunch of parameters that can be set. I was pulling close to 10volts with that 100watt Suitcase, so I was expecting 3 times that with the 320watt system from Oliver. But I'm only getting 15.5volts max average right now and basically with the Zamp being a simple controller, my hands are tied, there are no adjustments that can be made...

 

https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-foldable-solar-suitcase-back-order/#tab_prd-specs

 

But in order to know how many volts that the Blue Sky is actually putting out, let's all chime in with what we are seeing usually as the normal output. My Zamp is pushing 15.5vdc most of the day, what's yours? Please list your controller, Zamp, Blue Sky, etc. and the average charging voltage, then let's compare the results.

 

I may end up using both the Solar Suitcase coupled with the Zamp system if I can't get the batteries to fully charge every day. Having an incomplete charge every day can change the values that the controller monitors with, so we need to research this a bit more. Here's a couple shots from the Blue Sky manual. I'm also wondering what the cost difference is?

 

Reed

 

Zamp/ 15.5vdc/ 320watt pannels

 

Renogy/ 9.8vdc/ 100watt pannels

 

Screenshot_2017-03-16-01-50-57.thumb.png.1af22ad4d904ab20830944879c880779.png

Screenshot_2017-03-16-01-56-42.thumb.png.10bca49c0e51a4b502a943d51ec40118.png


Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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This post disappeared... But I have learned to back up everything when posting to this forum these days :)

 

I read through the Blue Sky manual again as this is the controller that I had originally thought we were getting before we ordered our Olli. Oliver sure made a bunch of changes for 2017 and going to the Zamp controller was for ease of use. I've been using Solar to keep my RV's batteries charged for about 12 years, starting with the little single pannel Coleman that simply clamped to the battery back in the day that I still have and use on my trucks. According to Blue Sky, their pannel being an mppt, will give you 30% more power... Right now, I'm missing 30% of the power that I was use to seeing with my Renogy Solar Suitcase which also has a bunch of parameters that can be set. I was pulling close to 10volts with that 100watt Suitcase, so I was expecting 3 times that with the 320watt system from Oliver. But I'm only getting 15.5volts max average right now and basically with the Zamp being a simple controller, my hands are tied, there are no adjustments that can be made...

 

https://www.renogy.com/renogy-100-watt-12-volt-monocrystalline-foldable-solar-suitcase-back-order/#tab_prd-specs

 

But in order to know how many volts that the Blue Sky is actually putting out, let's all chime in with what we are seeing usually as the normal output. My Zamp is pushing 15.5vdc most of the day, what's yours? Please list your controller, Zamp, Blue Sky, etc. and the average charging voltage, then let's compare the results.

 

I may end up using both the Solar Suitcase coupled with the Zamp system if I can't get the batteries to fully charge every day. Having an incomplete charge every day can change the values that the controller monitors with, so we need to research this a bit more. Here's a couple shots from the Blue Sky manual. I'm also wondering what the cost difference is?

 

Reed

 

Zamp/ 15.5vdc/ 320watt pannels

 

Renogy/ 9.8vdc/ 100watt pannels

 

[attachment file=47559]

[attachment file=47562]

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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I remember when I first arrived back home in June of 2016 making a commitment to myself to understand the Blue Sky gear in detail. The reason being, I wanted to become a boondocking camper! When I mentioned this back at the factory on delivery day, Tommy and Jason both seemed surprised. When I asked Tommy, why do you seem surprised he said, “Most Ollie owners use shore power. You would be the first to focus on dry camping exclusively.”

 

I began a process of digging into the Blue Sky controller and monitor. I happen to enjoy reading technical manuals. In various postings, here on our Forum, I attempted to document the highlights of my journey. My postings did not elicit a reaction. At the time, Steve (ScubaRX) appeared to be the only owner who shared my “enthusiasm” for the journey ahead.

 

Keep in mind, the learning curve was steep at best. I contacted a Blue Sky technician, Boz, in California who was superb. However, he possessed a level of knowledge which was struggling to find common ground during our email and phone conversations. I remember vividly how he asked me to pop the face plate on the controller and connect a voltmeter to the terminal identified in the technical manual for the wire from the array. He stressed, the importance of not getting electrocuted in the process. My reply, “What is a voltmeter?” Long silence on the phone! LOL! I asked Boz, please hang in there, I will get this problem solved!

 

At the time the knowledge base within the factory was limited. I began a search within the New England region for a service center with Blue Sky knowledge as a back-up to Boz. I located a technician in a wealthy section of the Maine coastline who services very large sailboats. The reply was stunning, “We do not service RVs of any type!” Boz and I were on my own. LOL!

 

My message to our Forum community of owners, think twice about owning Blue Sky gear if you do not possess a love for acquiring technical knowledge in detail. It is not the day-to-day operation of the Blue Sky gear, it is the problem-solving abilities you will need to possess should a problem arise. In my case, I had a loose wire running from the controller to the monitor which I needed to repair. I also had to re-boot the controller which necessitated the manipulation of multiple parameters. There was no user guide or individual to help with these operations.

 

Now I am curious, are there any future, prospective or recent owners who see value in a journey like mine? I would guess not, after all aren’t we suppose to just enjoy camping!

 

Buzzy

PS - For the last 2 days my array has been 90% covered with a thick layer of snow and yet my Blue Sky controller is pulling in power and recharging my batteries. Amazing! I LOVE my Blue Sky gear!!

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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Thanks to everyone for their posts. I've done quite a bit of research since my original post, I've come to the conclusion that the zamp gear would be sufficient for our needs.it seems that the differences between the two types of controllers is minimal at the wattages of our panels, so I'm willing to trade off the extra power for the benefits of the pwm charging profile and ease of use.

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STEVEnBETTY

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We also had a beautiful 21" of snow fall on our getting green grass. We thought Spring and comfortable camping season was almost here.

If under that snow, you were still getting power, would it not be the solar panel that was delivering it? The panel/controller just tells the power where to go or do? Did they change the roof array when the Blue Sky unit was changed out? Thanks...

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If under that snow, you were still getting power, would it not be the solar panel that was delivering it? The panel/controller just tells the power where to go or do? Did they change the roof array when the Blue Sky unit was changed out? Thanks…

 

A point of clarification.  90% of my array is covered with snow.  The 10% not covered is providing the power.  When I purchased my Ollie, it was delivered with Zamp solar panels with a Blue Sky controller and a Blue Sky monitor.  Zamp controllers were not being installed by OTT back in June of 2016.  Yes, the panels are the main reason for the recharging of my batteries.  However, the Blue Sky controller appears to be doing a fine job taking limited power and recharging my batteries.

 

It might be useful to know, since last June I have only connected my Ollie to shore power on three occasions.  One was to re-boot my controller after it had shut down and the other two times was to complete demos for prospective buyers who wanted to see the AC in operation.  For me, camping is all about understanding my solar gear. :)

 

Buzzy

 

 

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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Thanks for the informative posts. I really am a newby at this, and I am glad that I will be getting the ZAMP system since the PWM charging optimizes battery life, which is a priority to me, especially with the AGM batteries I chose.

 

Can the Blue Sky system be retrofitted later on without major wiring changes? In other words, is it just the hardware that is different?

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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The prime reason for going with the solar array was so we would have power for a C-pap machine wherever we are. Guess my next research will be to see how long we can run it without having to plug in. Would loved to have enough power to run it, a few lights, and a furnace for 3 or more days...

 

 

 

 

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John,

 

You should speak with Jason regarding the potential for converting from Zamp to Blue Sky at a later date.  I would guess the cost could be significant.

 

I understand for most Ollie owners the rational in deciding between PWM and MPPT technology is primarily based on battery life.  I actually take a different approach.  I base the decision on the location and style of camping I have chosen for my Ollie.

 

I want my camping to be exclusive to boondocking.  But more importantly, it will be based in campgrounds which are heavily forested.  Most of the state campground sites in New England and Canada have mostly or partially shaded sites. During the winter I have the sun low on the horizon.  In essence, year round I am challenged to pull as much power as I can from the limited availability of sun on my array.  It is my camping which drives me to the MPPT technology.

 

I encourage all future and potential owners to think about where and how they plan to camp and figure that knowledge into your decision-making.

 

Buzzy


Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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The prime reason for going with the solar array was so we would have power for a C-pap machine wherever we are. Guess my next research will be to see how long we can run it without having to plug in. Would loved to have enough power to run it, a few lights, and a furnace for 3 or more days…

 

Canoe12,

 

You will love the field testing with your Ollie.  It can truly challenge your analytical skills.  I might recommend a few guidelines to help weigh your trips toward success.

 

Like yourself, I need to provide a continuous supply of power for a family member who is on life sustaining oxygen therapy.  The medical equipment requires AC power.  I have come to categorize equipment and/or actions as either essential or non-essential.  At the same time I aim for high levels of enjoyment and not a feeling of making do with less.  I do not use my microwave.  I pop my popcorn over a campfire.  I do not use my TV, I play Bananagrams at the dinette.  I do not use the porch lights. I prefer to admire the fireflies.  I run the furnace, but I love to snuggle under a comforter.  My suggestion, is to try and bring joy to camping without utilities.

 

I typically book five days and four night with an understanding we may need to break camp if the power levels drop to near 50% of my AGM capacity.  Even while dry camping in mostly shaded sites, I was able to power my Ollie for the duration of my trips.  And we had a blast each and every time!

 

Buzzy

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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The prime reason for going with the solar array was so we would have power for a C-pap machine wherever we are. Guess my next research will be to see how long we can run it without having to plug in. Would loved to have enough power to run it, a few lights, and a furnace for 3 or more days…

 

That's exactly why we went with the Oliver, to run Karen's CPAP off of the solar. Depending on which machine you guys run, will make a big difference in the amount of power needed for the CPAP. I made a video a couple of years ago on CPAP camping that has really helped a lot of people. Right now, as long as there's sun, you may have to charge up with a generator once a week with the 4 battery set up. I have a Honda 2000i Generator and then a golf cart charger that maxes it out and charges the batteries pretty fast. In our experience the Phillips Respironics uses a lot less electricity then some others, so the brand of CPAP makes a difference also and you may be able to run without a generator ever, depending on the brand of machine.

 

Here's our old video -

 

 

 

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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Today after running the CPAP, heater last night a bit, fans today, lights, etc. we were completely charged back up by 2pm. The max was 14.4 volts and it was a very pleasant day, so in the sun, after it was charged, it was sitting at 13.6v. Now that the sun has gone behind the hill, it still shows fully charged at 12.8v. So the Zamp Solar runs fine for us on sunny days as we have been seeing, but if there's a few really overcast and rainy days in a row, then it loses ground. We didn't need to run the Max Fan today, just the fridge fan. We had the windows open and the max fan cover open and everything was comfortable. This is our first actual boondocking day on BLM land outside Kingman, AZ.

 

received_10154881305305269.thumb.jpeg.4ef2de5e7d5517f1fb759fc3e7370e84.jpeg

received_10154881306190269.thumb.jpeg.875e8af62d023d6d8fba2654c17d2286.jpeg

We relaxed today, finally after every chore was completed yesterday. We're registered with the new license plate installed, leveled and in the woods... Or high desert depending on how you look at it :)

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Happy Camping,


null


Reed & Karen Lukens with Riffles our Miniature Poodle


2017 Oliver Legacy Elite II  Standard, Hull #200 / 2017 Silverado High Country 1500 Short Bed 4x4


Past TV - 2012 Mercedes-Benz ML350 4Matic BlueTEC Diesel


Click on our avatar pic above to find the videos on our Oliver Legacy Elite II


 

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The prime reason for going with the solar array was so we would have power for a C-pap machine wherever we are. Guess my next research will be to see how long we can run it without having to plug in. Would loved to have enough power to run it, a few lights, and a furnace for 3 or more days…

 

 

Canoe 12, I'm not an expert by any means, but from everything I've read the major differences between pwm and mppt charging profiles are at the extremes (freezing weather- low battery voltage) normal conditions are marginal at best, (read "handy bob" or trimetric sites). I would think you will be just fine, especially if you go with the agm batteries, it seems that they charge at a faster rate, and you can draw them down farther with no damage.

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STEVEnBETTY

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Thanks all. Guess we will be ok with a Zamp system, in the overall. We still have some lingering doubts though.

I am surprised that factory reps. seemed surprised that someone would want to rely strictly on solar power. And to have them state that most Oliver owners 'plug-in'. If that was truly the case, why would so many people buy and bother with the system's cost and complexities? Wonder why they think people buy them, and do they wonder why they offer them?

If a system is in storage, and still producing power, I have to ask why? Doesn't it charge up and shut off? Maybe to come on and maintain batteries and cover 'ghost draw'. I suppose if were inside checking the systems and maybe running the furnace and maybe a light or so you could expect it would come alive to maintain.

Curious about a constant charging effect on battery water usage. How often does water have to be topped up? To add water, in sub zero temperatures, while in storage and then not charge would also be a concern.

We know we used to take boat and camper batteries into a warm environment in the winter. We would also put a maintaining charge on them about February and again before the season started. We figured with a solar array that would not be necessary. As a charged battery would not freeze.

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Canoe12,

 

This past winter I stored my Ollie outside where the solar panels could provide power to the batteries.  Since I did not remove the fuses for the stereo or TV they, along with the carbon monoxide detector, were parasitic power draws.  The draw was near 5 to 6 amps per day.  If the solar panels were not completely covered with snow, they were restoring my batteries to full each day.  Since I use AGM batteries, which are sealed, I have no concerns for adding water.

 

I realize many owners store their Ollies inside, but I wanted to understand more about the solar system over the winter.  I also wanted to see if my Ollie was problem free during a winter season.  So far, the solar system has worked incredibly well and I noticed just two minor problems.  The first involved a tendency for the lock on the door (Not the deadbolt, that is fine.) to freeze.  I used a special lock lubricant, recommended by John D., and the problem is resolved.  I also have the black streaks from the porch light gaskets.  I plan to resolve that issue in May.

 

For me, the winter season with Ollie outside was just a continuation of my field testing.  I purchased an Ollie not just because it is well designed and well manufactured.  I also believed it would be durable and hold up well to my four season New Hampshire weather.  So far, I have not been disappointed!

 

Buzzy

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Buzzy


2016 Oliver Elite II - June 9, 2016
2016 F150 Lariat 3.5L EB, Max Towing

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