Reed & Karen's Blog -

[Try2Relax]

Wow, I didn't realize that they would only get to 1.4A, no wonder you have all the issues. They should definitely offer both systems with different price points.

[STEVEnBETTY]

Reed, I’m thinking that before you change over to an MPPT controller, you should run an accurate test with absolutely full sun on the panels for a full day and monitor the results. While it’s true that the MPPT controller advertises up to 30% more charge, it’s the nature of that difference that is important here. As I understand it, the difference in total amp hours delivered is at the top end of the collector voltage and amperage curve, or the Maximum Power Point, which is at voltages over 14.1 in full sun at relatively low temperatures with a normal angle of orientation. With PWM, or pulse width modulation, the controller cannot control the charging voltage, only the battery charged voltage, so it pulses power with varying band width to protect the batter from going higher than 14 volts. The affect of PWM is that there is a lot of off time in the pulses to keep the battery voltage under control. Whereas the MPPT controller is a DC transformer that can take the entire collector current and adjust its voltage to 14 so that you get full amps to the battery until it reaches 14 volts. This means no off time compared to the PWM pulses. This is where the overall difference begins to show up between the two. Then it goes into absorption mode and reduces the amps, while maintaining the voltage, until the amps reach a pre-determined minimum amount that triggers the Float stage. So the battery really does get charged fully instead of giving a false high voltage reading that increases the “off” width of the pulses in PWM. So, the real difference is during direct sun at higher collector voltages and, possibly, at higher states of charge. But at lower states of charge, in full sun, the difference may be small or none. Direct sun is the key here. Any shading drastically reduces the output of a particular collector being shaded, or just shuts it off. This can be as little as a tree branch shadowing one panel. Since the difference between the MPPT and the PWM overall amp hour delivery is at the top end of the voltage scale, and especially in cooler weather, any loss of collector output through partial shading can easily make up the difference between the two. In your case, you are needing a strong bulk charge to make up for the night’s use, but you may be getting far less than the rated array output because of partial shading. Shading percentage is not equal to the percentage loss of output. Output loss is far more than shading percentage. Another factor to consider is the rated array output adjustment due to imperfect orientation. You may have to give up 10-20% right off the top of Oliver’s rating because of that alone. I’m bringing an MPPT controller with me to Bandon. Maybe we can run some tests to compare results to your PWM controller. John

Reed, in my opinion I think your asking something from your Zamp controller that none of them can supply, none of them work very well in the shade, 30 percent of 3 amps is still only 1 amp, I for 1 am truly happy with the the zamp system, if you look at previous posts on the blue sky system it can be very complex. I don't know Oliver's true reasoning behind changing over to the zamp system, but from a business standpoint when you have an outside vendor supplied product that people don't understand and have to put time and effort into educating people how to use it, it's time for a change. I haven't had to educate myself on it's use and I'm a firm believer in the k.i.s.s. Principle.

[Overland]

I agree that there's nothing wrong with the Zamp system provided that you know on the front end what you're buying and what the tradeoffs are.  Like I said, Oliver should offer two systems - one simple and one advanced - and let the buyer choose.  In Reed and Karen's case, I think they have a legitimate gripe that they were unwitting guinea pigs for the system.  As for the price, well I guess we're all aware that Zamp in general is overpriced and Oliver clearly sees it as a money maker, just like most of their other options.  Their foam mattress upgrade for example is more than twice what I can pay Southern Mattress for a much better mattress.   And I about blew my top when I was told how measly of a credit they were giving me for not buying their cushions.   $162!  Less than what they had told me before that they would credit us for just the fabric! But it is what it is and you've got to pick your battles.  It's nothing unique to Oliver and they're doing other things for us that we feel even out the score a little.

 

I just wish they'd offer a "will return emails" option - I'd pay good money for that!

[KarenLukens]

 

Reed, in my opinion I think your asking something from your Zamp controller that none of them can supply, none of them work very well in the shade, 30 percent of 3 amps is still only 1 amp, I for 1 am truly happy with the the zamp system, if you look at previous posts on the blue sky system it can be very complex. I don’t know Oliver’s true reasoning behind changing over to the zamp system, but from a business standpoint when you have an outside vendor supplied product that people don’t understand and have to put time and effort into educating people how to use it, it’s time for a change. I haven’t had to educate myself on it’s use and I’m a firm believer in the k.i.s.s. Principle.

 

Thanks Steve & Betty :)

 

I had read the Blue Sky owners manual 3 times and had done tons of research on it, watched all of the videos thast I could find, etc... so that I would be prepared to use it when we picked up our trailer. When Jason said we had a Zamp system, I didn't even know he was talking about a different solar system at first... That's why I asked him, "What's a Zamp?" Because I knew that we had the Blue Sky system installed that we had talked about with them back in October... I was never told that it had been changed out and I was paying $2800 for Blue Sky or so I thought.

 

Did you guys pay $2800.00 also for yours? I'm thinking that there should have been a big price change between the two systems in there somewhere because the Blue Sky system is a lot more complex and uses a shunt and a separate booster with breakers installed under the street side bed.

 

Here's the Zamp schematic -

 

 

And here's the Blue Sky schematic -

 

 

And the system itself next to the battery compartment under the bed.

 

 

Then the controller was mounted on the battery box -

 

 

The Zamp unit is completely installed behind the wall mounted controller, very simple :)

 

Reed

 

 

[STEVEnBETTY]

Yes Reed, we paid the same price you did, and I sympathize with your concerns, and I guess you can ask for a refund if you felt deceived, but companies change components all the time for various reasons, I've never seen one reduce the price when doing so. I guess it comes down to perceived value, all the research I've done on the pwm vs mppt systems led me to believe that the perceived gains were dependent on extremes in temperature and sunlight, under normal conditions there is virtually no difference between the two. I do wish the Zamp had a separate monitor to keep track of the amps used and replaced and I may add one later if it becomes a concern, but for now I'm very happy with what I have.

[KarenLukens]

9 weeks later.... And we are plugged in at Bullards Beach Campground in Oregon for the first time since May 26th at the annual Bandon Fiberglass RV Rally. So we boondocked for 9 weeks and all is well :) We used the Blaylock leveler that we bought from John Davies for the first time and it works fine just like our Anderson Leveler did. I always carry a couple of wedges that I cut out of a 4x4 and I drove one in with my rubber mallet under the Blaylock to hold everything in place and it's incredibly stable.

 

 

It stores behind my seat easy enough just like the Anderson, but personally, I like it a lot better because it's not plastic... Our Anderson chipped when we drove off of it one time and this one fits just right under the tire. I've never tried it without blocking the other side because, the Anderson rolled a bit and this one is no different, so... I'm still using my wedges like always :)

 

Tomorrow is another big day at the Rally, the day everyone comes to see the trailers. And we have 2 Ollie's here, Raspy's Twin bed Legacy Elite II and our King bed. We've both had a ton of people asking questions already... As usual with the Oliver's :)

 

Today, Karen gave a Cobb grill presentation to about 20 people and then she had an adult coloring class in the afternoon, while John came over an installed his water tank fix for us. The spin welding was incredibly easy and everything went perfect. So now we have that fixed, Jason sent out another box of parts for some other fixes, and now we are ready to call Scott Oliver :) They called us today but we were right in the middle of the spin weld so the phone stayed across the room and we've all been leaving messages for each other with the time difference having its usual affect... You can see the new fitting along with the new valve, and I videoed the whole thing, so that should be up in a few days :)

 

Reed

 

[John E Davies]

Hi Reed, I am glad you like the Blayloch ramp, it was just too massive and awkward to store for me. I considered drilling lightening holes in the center but if you are using it long term in inclement or salty weather you should probably leave the chrome plating intact.

 

I am waiting for my fresh water tank parts from Oliver. I do not mind doing this myself, since my contempt and distrust for RV shops goes beyond intense. I do have an appropriate router. But the spin weld tool  worries me. Can I rent or borrow one? They are expensive and not worth buying for one use IMHO. Does anyone know where I could obtain one, for one use?

 

Maybe the factory should provide them as loaners, with a deposit against damage or failure to return.....

 

I do have a question. If you spin weld a fitting and mess it up, could you cut it off flush with its base, redrill the big hole and spin weld a replacement directly on top? Would the heat re-weld the old flange as well as the new? I am thinking about screw-ups and alternatives to replacing the entire tank!

 

Keep up your great posts, I usually find them very interesting and informative.

 

Thanks,

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[KarenLukens]

If you spin weld a fitting and mess it up, could you cut it off flush with its base, redrill the big hole and spin weld a replacement directly on top? Would the heat re-weld the old flange as well as the new? I am thinking about screw-ups and alternatives to replacing the entire tank! Keep up your great posts, I usually find them very interesting and informative. Thanks, John Davies Spokane WA

Yes, you can cut it off, then level it top and bottom or inside as best you can, drill your new hole and spin weld a new piece in. But you won't have a problem John being the tank varies from 3/16" to 1/4" thick on the outer edge of mine; with the 1" spin weld fitting being 1/8" thick. You simply hold it in place with the router, turn it on, watch the bead melt around and then turn it off and hold it in place for a few seconds after the weld is complete. You turn it on, watch it spin, then smoke and melt around the edge like a normal weld, then stop. It only took about 1-1/2 seconds to complete the spin weld. Then you hold it in place to let it set up and cool for a few seconds and that's it. Once the melted bead completes it's circle in less then 2 seconds on this one, you're done. We then let it sit and cool after removing the router for about 10 minutes while we cut the line from the pump infeed just below the 90° and installed a ball valve and a tee above it for the new pex line to the dip tube. We used a 1" pipe spin weld fitting on mine because I do want to eventually put in a gravity feed water filling system. Raspy used 3/4" on his but after putting in my 1"fitting, it really is a much stronger and more stable fitting then the 3/4" pipe by far. You've got to figure it's 4x stronger at least. Everything went perfect with mine and now it starts drawing air at 6% when level and continues to pull water until it runs out a few minutes later. Problem Solved!

 

Reed

[KarenLukens]

I started editing the video tonight and I will make one of the spin weld itself also, it really was way too simple :)

 

Today we had probably 40 people come over and go thru and ask questions about our Oliver. Karen is really happy now that the water issue is fixed and she was right back in her element today happily answering all of the questions about the inside of the trailer, while I had a crowd of guys around the outside going thru everything about the sewer set up and storage, the 4 batteries, the Trojan Hydrolink system, the Blaylock Ez-Leveler, the Dexter Easy Flex, the back up camera and back up lights, the Truma AquaGo water heater, my tool box and outside shower and last but not least, the Zamp solar that I will be changing out soon. It was a good day :) My only issue is that we have now been plugged in to a normal 30amp service for 4 days and I'm still watching the Zamp system struggle thru out the day to switch over to float mode. It sits between 13.3 - 13.6 with the batteries plugged in and fully charged,yet never goes into float... So I'm thinking that the Zamp system may have some other issues going on. I've seen it hit 14.1vdc once in the last few days in full sun and it has not kicked over to float at all that I have seen... The panels are spotlessly clean along with the rest of the trailer and car, so that's not the problem. Open house in our loop was from 1pm to 3pm and we had people here at our trailer until around 4pm, so it was a full afternoon and a great showing and this morning I pulled open the grey water drain valve, went in and took my first Endless Shower in a long time with full hook ups. I was in there Ooing and Aawing  for half an hour with super hot water flowing at 62psi the whole time. I do love my Valtera adjustable water pressure regulator. The pump itself it set at 55psi, so I kick it up just a touch myself to 62psi because the pex lines are rated up to 130psi, so it makes for a killer shower with the Truma AquaGo :)

 

Reed

 

[Try2Relax]

So I’m thinking that the Zamp system may have some other issues going on. I’ve seen it hit 14.1vdc once in the last few days in full sun and it has not kicked over to float at all that I have seen… The panels are spotlessly clean along with the rest of the trailer and car, so that’s not the problem.

 

Wife: Why are you washing the truck again, you just washed it yesterday?

 

Me: The Ollie's batteries are low.

 

Wife: Huh? Nevermind, whatever.. ;)

[KarenLukens]

:) Now that was funny Randy :)

 

I'm putting together the whole water tank mod video but it's too big to upload from my tablet so here is the quicky video of the spin weld itself that we did Friday afternoon. You turn on the router watch the plastic melt and form, then shut off the router, done!

 

Reed

 

[John E Davies]

This is all very cool Reed, I cannot wait to do this, but there is still the issue of the special tool for installing the fitting. Any comments about that?

 

I suppose I could just buy one and rent it to Ollie owners for a few bucks.... shipping charges should be minimal since it probably would fit in a small USPS flat rate box. Though I think the factory should step in here.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[KarenLukens]

The Rally ends today John, Raspy is thinking along the same lines and they headed out this morning. Give me a week to let things materialize, I will be calling the Oliver's tomorrow hopefully. Raspy says he will put a complete kit together for each person that wants to do it themselves if Oliver comes on board of doing the tank fix our way. My take on it is, we fixed the problem and made a complete installation video. I just need to finish editing it and then we're heading up to moms in a few days where I can use her internet to upload the complete movie for everyone to look at.

 

Reed

[KarenLukens]

Here's a pic of the plug that we pulled out of the tank. Notice the difference in thickness, it's about 3/16ths on the thin side and almost 5/16" on the thick side that was towards the wall.

 

[Raspy]

This is all very cool Reed, I cannot wait to do this, but there is still the issue of the special tool for installing the fitting. Any comments about that? I suppose I could just buy one and rent it to Ollie owners for a few bucks…. shipping charges should be minimal since it probably would fit in a small USPS flat rate box. Though I think the factory should step in here. John Davies Spokane WA

 

John,

 

As I wrote about in an earlier post, I have the fittings and the tool to install them.  Plus I have the dip tubes in stock.   My company is all geared up and the entire procedure is all worked out.  We're just waiting to get the logistics sorted out with Oliver and a few other details.  Then I can work out a system to get everyone fixed.

 

Oliver needs to be involved in this for the existing trailers and the new ones about to be built.  Not everyone will be willing or able to take on this modification, so it's not the time to rush in, on your own, with a rental arrangement outside of the work and planning that has already been done, or is about to be done.  There is more to it than that.

[KarenLukens]

I talked to Scott Oliver today about this and everything else and they are anxiously waiting to see what we did. I finished editing the movie tonight and it will be uploaded in a couple of days for everyone to check out. They want to compare our fix to theirs and I made a few recommendations on other things as well. It was a good conversation and they want to have everything perfect just like we do.

 

I also talked with him about the Zamp switcheroo and he is checking into the real reason behind that also. There's definitely a wall up between owners and some of the staff because he had only heard of one other owner that had mentioned the tank issue and that wasn't Dave... So I think that we are seeing some changes for the good. At least it seemed that way. Scott said that they listen to and also read our input and they had already implemented the sewer drain fix that I did to mine into the new trailers, I was surprised to say the least and he came off as genuinely caring to me, not just blowing smoke :)

 

Karen broke out the Cobb tonight and we bbqed once again :)

 

Reed

 

[Raspy]

Reed,

 

Excellent report.  Sounds like Scott has been out of the loop.  That would explain the delay and lack of response from Oliver.

[KarenLukens]

We made it to Florence, OR with our friend Paula and I ended up setting up on extremely unlevel ground on top of loose gravel to make room for the 2 trailers. To date, this is my most extreme set up with the Blaylock or Anderson style of leveling systems. First I put the 2x6 under the Blaylock ramp and it just spun my tires trying to get it on. So then I ramped it with 3/4" plywood onto the 2x6 with the Blaylock on top to get it to go up, and that worked fine. So the Blaylock is up around 7", then with it on top of the 2x6 makes it around 8-1/2" and then I had to unhook the trailer from the car... With it being so high on the one side, I didn't want to just raise the tongue giving the trailer a chance to shift, so I put blocks and boards under the rear jack and raised the street side high enough to add the 3 high stack under the rear tire and then set that side back down to where that tire was sitting firm on the blocks. Then I went around and blocked the other side with the rest of the 10 stack or 6 blocks and also used plywood under both the right rear and the tongue. To keep the trailer from shifting at all, I then raised the trailer off of the ball using the 3 jacks to hold it steady while lifting the trailer into the air off of the car and it worked fine. None of the jacks struggled at all holding most of the weight of the trailer in the air with the tires still blocked up. After moving the car out of the way, I lowered everything back down and finished leveling and setting up, so all's well that ends well :)

 

Reed

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KarenLukens]

You know the old saying, "A happy wife makes for a happy life.".. Well our lives have really changed here since the water tank has been fixed, and I didn't realize the amount of pressure that I felt I was under to get it fixed until yesterday... The doom and gloom feeling of having more work to do on Goldilocks is gone :)

 

You were right Raspy :) getting it over & done with has sure made a difference around here along with the nice phone call that we had with Scott Oliver. Having every major problem completely fixed now has brought smiles back to both of our faces. Yes, we still have some small issues that we are working with, but those are simply manufacturers defects and not Olivers. Today I actually felt like filming again and I finished the first movie in my series on the 2017 Legacy Elite II. I started filming the first episode back in May and then just mothballed it. Then last night I finished it and edited it. So this afternoon we will have another movie out... the first in our series that has been in the works since we picked up Goldilocks back in February. Life is good! and peace has returned to our household once again :)

 

Reed

 

 

[KarenLukens]

Video #1 :)

 

 

 

[KarenLukens]

We've been here in Florence, Oregon for a week and went our for a drive yesterday while not towing for a change... Lol, I hadn't seen great mileage in a while since we've been going so many places with Goldilocks. We've been boondocking behind mom's house, out in the full sun with the highs in the mid 70°s and the Zamp has been keeping up just fine, but still this is with 14 hours of full sun every day. We're about 200 yards from the beach and having a great time :)

 

I tried starting the AC with the batteries today and with the Micro-Air it was a no go... I got an E7 fault and no AC with full batteries and the inverter turned on... So... I checked the owners manuals and they told me to refer to the manufacturers manual... And I didn't feel like digging it out. But anyway online, the E7 says that there's a problem with the 120vac.

 

Does it not run thru the inverter like everything else? Hmmm... I'll check that later when I can plug in if nobody here has an answer...

 

For now it's back to having fun :)

 

Reed

 

 

 

[KarenLukens]

OK, I looked at the schematic and answered my own question... The AC isn't wired thru the inverter...

 

Yet :)

 

Has anyone wired the air conditioner thru the inverter yet? It should work fine with the Micro-Air being that the inverter has a 3000watt max surge...

 

Reed

 

[Raspy]

Reed,

 

 

 

Running the AC through the inverter should be a way to allow a small generator to run the larger AC load.  The batteries and Inverter could carry the starting load and the Genny could make up the power used before the next compressor start.  The batteries become a flywheel and as long as the generator can deliver the average watts required, it should work fine.  The key is "average" load vs starting load.  The batteries and inverter supply the repeating starting load and the genny and battery charger supply the average watts to the batteries.

 

I'm not really interested in running my AC unless plugged in to shore power, but I think it would work fine with my 2000 watt Yamaha and my 3000 watt/ 6000 watt surge inverter.  Haven't wired it up yet though.

 

I know you have the EZ start, and that will really help the genny, but altitude will significantly reduce the genny output and offset the EZ Start advantage when at higher altitudes.  The loss will be in the neighborhood of 3% per 1000' elevation and can easily use up any reserve power that is required to start the AC.  In your case, the genny plugged directly to the 120 volt shore tie plug and running the AC directly would be best, if it will carry the load of starting.

 

In my case, off grid, I believe the only way to run the  AC would be through the inverter and with the genny charging the batteries.  That way the generator load is a known constant with the onboard charger.  And it might even have to have fully charged batteries to start properly.  Unfortunately, with that complicated setup, it's not as efficient as a direct hookup.

 

As I mentioned, I haven't wired mine up yet and it was interesting to look at your transfer switch and general wiring the other day at Bandon.  Thanks for posting the schematic.   I'm still kicking around various ideas to see what I like best.

 

Have fun in Florence.  It's been a long time since I was there.

[KarenLukens]

Thanks John :)

 

I'm having fun myself :) Paula broke her foot, she found out today... It took her a week to get into the doctor but she got it diagnosed today... Then Karen came down with a migraine this morning, but she's doing OK.. And me? Well I actually got stopped last night and propositioned by a hooker in Florence last night... Lol. That was a first for me... I was just leaving Safeway and the next thing you know, I hear her calling me over, so I looked, she motioned and waved me over again... and then I naturally turned the car and went.... the other way as fast as I could :)

 

I mean in Florence! really... The girls here have all been laughing all day over that one :)

 

I'm thinking of putting in a double throw 120vac toggle for the AC unit so that I can simply flip it over to the inverter when I'm not running off of shore power or the generator. I should be able to run the AC off of the inverter for maybe up to 3 hours a day, I'm guessing when needed. More or less it's just an experiment, but if it works and we can run it for a couple of hours in the afternoon in full sun by itself, then it will have been worth while.

 

Reed

[KarenLukens]

Here's better pictures, if you need more just ask or you can download the 2016 & 2017 owners manual pdf's off of the Facebook page under the files section.