Need Advice: Failure of Trojan AGM Batteries and Wanting to Replace with Lithiums

[mossemi]

Is your shunt installed as I described other than the portable solar.  The BMV is not going to consider the input from your portable panel because the negative connection is on the wrong side of the shunt if the shunt is installed correctly.  Can you provide pictures of the battery cabling as well as the shunt.  As far as I know, nearly all Victron support is online, try this link.

https://community.victronenergy.com/index.html

Mossey

[Mike and Carol]

46 minutes ago, Liana said:

I thought I'd seen a picture somewhere of your setup and true to form, I can't find it.  Derrick at BB said I can "just drop the batteries in and change the settings on the charge controller and converter" but I don't think that's completely true, I think they need to be secured in some way.  I've seen a couple of different configurations and was looking for your picture to remind myself of what the two battery tie downs looked like.

It looks like our J hooks are rubbing *a little bit* on our AGMS but not catastrophic like some others have posted.  Could those be re used?

I'm no electrician, but I do think if I can build some confidence in how to secure them, I can certainly swap them out myself without having to go to a shop.  I see where the LI-WIZ jumper is on our PD4000, seems super easy and changing the battery type on the charge controller is also easy

I had to change the settings on my Blue Sky solar controller and replace the 6 year old PD4045 with one that was lithium capable.  Other than cleaning up some of the cabling it was just a drop in replacement.  I reused the hold down straps and added some cushioning on the bottom and sides of the battery tray.  When I add a third I will have to change a couple of settings on the solar controller.  Mike

[CnC]

On 9/19/2021 at 1:02 PM, Spike said:

 

Spike, I have built BB/Victron systems.  If it'd help to stop by and see/discuss your various options on your way home, PM me and I'll give you the address.  We're west of Phoenix.

Charlie.

[Spike]

1 hour ago, CnC said:

PM me

Did just that. Thanks!

 

[Spike]

2 hours ago, mossemi said:

The BMV is not going to consider the input from your portable panel

Mossey, I think that I understand the bit about the placement of the solar panel alligator clips not engaging with the shunt. (My tech originally misplaced the wiring when he installed the system but corrected it after I discovered the problem.) Nonetheless, shouldn't the monitor at least register the battery voltage (up to 14.4 volts) and react accordingly? 

I will attempt to post photos tomorrow.

Thanks a bunch for that link. I've bookmarked the site. I will explore it and possible post my issue there.

[Spike]

On 1/26/2022 at 3:59 PM, mossemi said:

Can you provide pictures of the battery cabling as well as the shunt.

Mossey, here is my best attempt to photograph the battery bank and monitor area.

Sorry about the battery-bank photos. Access is surely limited with the way in which my tech had to cram in the Battle Borns on their ends.

I think that I understand that the problem with the monitor not registering the full charge when charged with the supplementary solar panels is that the shunt is not able to "see" the current along with the voltage. I suspect, however, that my tech still may not have wired the system correctly. Before I tried hooking up the supplementary 180-watt Zamp solar panels, the monitor never demonstrated that it had synced even when it showed that it had been fully charged--usually around 10AM. 

I hope these photos suffice in helping you identify the problem. Thanks.

IMG_3245.HEIC IMG_3246.HEIC IMG_3247.HEIC IMG_3248.HEIC IMG_3249.HEIC IMG_3250.HEIC IMG_3244.HEIC IMG_3243.HEIC IMG_3242.HEIC IMG_3241.HEIC

[ScubaRx]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:59 PM, Spike said:

Mossey, I think that I understand the bit about the placement of the solar panel alligator clips not engaging with the shunt. (My tech originally misplaced the wiring when he installed the system but corrected it after I discovered the problem.) Nonetheless, shouldn't the monitor at least register the battery voltage (up to 14.4 volts) and react accordingly? 

I will attempt to post photos tomorrow.

Thanks a bunch for that link. I've bookmarked the site. I will explore it and possible post my issue there.

If it is wired correctly the system will "see" any external panels.

[mossemi]

13 hours ago, Spike said:

Mossey, here is my best attempt to photograph the battery bank and monitor area.

I will study these pictures and get back to you.

Mossey

[mossemi]

Just to clarify this response, I am trying to address your statement “quirky readings of the monitor”.

I have looked at your pictures and of course they created more questions.  So I am going to try a different approach and show you some of my installation.  This is a view of the battery box after I removed all other wiring so you can compare yours to mine and move any negative wires to the load side of the shunt.

This picture is of the Victron shunt and the negative bus bar I installed.

 

I am not sure what “quirky readings” really means in your case.

This YouTube video will explain the BMV-712 installation better than I can.  

PM me if you what to talk about this.

Mossey

[Spike]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:51 PM, mossemi said:

I am going to trying a different approach and show you some of my installation.

Thanks again, Mossey. I will share your photos with my tech when I connect with him next week. The quirky readings are that, despite the system showing all of the parameters necessary for a synchronization, which the Victron information tells me is necessary to maintain correct readings, the monitor never displays that it has synchronized.  In addition, although the readings from the Zamp controller inside the cabin and on the external Zamp controller on the 180-watt portable solar panels have revealed that the battery bank is full, the display tells me that it has been several days since a full charge. I'm hoping that my tech can straighten things out when I show him the advice, photos, and diagrams you and others have shared with me. Many thanks.

[CnC]

Here's something to consider when changing from lead or AGM batteries to Battleborn lithium batteries.  When more than one battery is connected, the efficiency of the battery management systems require them to be hooked up like in this picture.

Charlie.

[CnC]

Spike,

Have you ever checked to see if the 712 is "locked?"  The 712 can only be "locked" or "unlocked" via the device itself - not via the app.  If locked, changes made via the app are not actually saved.  See attached.

Charlie.

 

[walstromd]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:02 PM, Spike said:

CALLING ON THE EXPERTISE OF TECH-SAVY OLLIE OWNERS

Our about-five-years-old Trojan batteries failed us last night in an alarming way. My wife, Liz, noticed an electrical odor and then heat radiating from the battery compartment under the pantry. I checked the Zamp solar controller. No error message was displayed, and all else—voltage, amp hours, amps being use—looked normal. Upon sliding out the battery tray, we noticed one of the batteries was oozing fluid and the top was distorted with something like a bubble. That battery was very hot, and the others also more than warm.

I have very little knowledge of batteries and electrical systems in general, so I was very fortunate to have met, a couple of hours earlier, a fellow camper who had described building his own solar system on his own home-built travel trailer. With his help and an alarming warning that a battery this hot could explode, we disconnected all four AGM batteries, removed them from the tray, and sealed all exposed wire connections well with electrical tape. 

We are now on shore power at an RV park in Escalante, UT. (We are here to perform at the festival this Friday.) It is now Sunday, and the one auto-parts dealer/auto-mechanic shop in town is closed. My fellow camper suggested that—with assistance of someone from this shop—we might be able to temporarily install an inexpensive 12-volt battery to suffice for the couple of boondocking stops we had planned to make before returning home in Southern AZ. He also recommended eventually replacing the blown AGMs with Battle Born lithium batteries, which I think I would like to do. 

I sure would appreciate any advice and answers to these questions that occur to me now:

1. If the local auto-parts dealer/auto-mechanic shop has a 12-volt battery that could suffice before I find someone to sell me and install the lithium batteries, would that temporary fix work with my solar-electrical set-up? If so, what things do I need to consider when dealing with the mechanic who may be able to help? (The octopus of wiring after the disconnect baffles me, but perhaps a good mechanic familiar with 12-volt-solar-converter set-ups like mine would be able to install the battery efficiently and safely until I get to a larger metropolitan center where I could have the lithium batteries installed. We plan to be in Flagstaff soon.)

2. When I DO find an outfit—I hope in Flagstaff—that could sell me the lithium batteries and install them, what things do I need to consider? Will my current equipment suffice to handle the new lithium batteries, or will other things need to be changed, like the solar controller, the inverter, etc.? All suggestions concerning this lithium battery replacement of my AGMs will be appreciated. 

Here is the list of components in our 2017 Oliver Elite II that I hope will help those who may be able to offer suggestions and answer any of my questions:

1. Four Trojan T-105 6v AGM batteries
2. Zamp solar Package 
3. Progressive Dynamics converter
4. Xantrex 2000W inverter

I thank all respondents in advance for any suggestions offered. I have previously received great advice on this forum and hope to receive some now. (Our Ollie had been, before this trip, more or less stationary for almost two years.) Also, please, if you can, avoid technical terms that a non-tech-savvy guy like me will not understand—or please define such terms. Thanks!
 

 

[walstromd]

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to this topic!  We just experienced the same issue with our Trojan AGM batteries in our Ollie purchased late in 2019.  (We have the same set-up as Spike listed.) We were on an extended trip in the southwest so I removed them and relied on shore power for the remainder of our trip.  Now back home I am trying to decide on replacements.  It appears that the Battle Born Lithium Batteries may be the way to go next.  I am going to try and do the installation myself so any additional help or advice would be appreciated.

[Spike]

33 minutes ago, walstromd said:

It appears that the Battle Born Lithium Batteries may be the way to go next.

Yes, that is exactly what we did--four of the 100AH BB Lithium Batteries. I did not install them myself. I hired an RV tech to do that. My tech called me when attempting to place them in the battery compartment, telling me that they would not fit. I called BB, and was told that they would fit if placed on their ends. My tech was able to do that, and with the replacement of our Dometic AC with a Houghton AC (and some other modifications that I documented in a separate post on this forum), We are now able to run our AC on the battery bank. My tech, however, indicated that it was still somewhat tricky to place those BB batteries in the compartment.

[Spike]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:30 PM, CnC said:

Have you ever checked to see if the 712 is "locked?" 

Sorry for not responding sooner, CnC. For some reason, I just now noticed your post. Thanks for this tip. I will check soon. Our Ollie is 100 miles away at the moment, having a boat builder repair damage to our gel coat. 

[thompsonkd]

Hey Spike

i noticed that you said that your RV tech put the battleborn batteries on their end; could you post a photo of what that looks like, especially how you worked out the cables on the batteries. Thanks. 
David #366

[ChrisMI]

1 hour ago, thompsonkd said:

Hey Spike

i noticed that you said that your RV tech put the battleborn batteries on their end; could you post a photo of what that looks like, especially how you worked out the cables on the batteries. Thanks. 
David #366

@Minnesota Oli did a nice install a while back…Link

I’m probably going to go with three BB batteries or one of the 315ah lithionics units.