Batteries and Solar Charger

[jd1923]

We have an older 2016 Oliver #113 and one of the features that weighed in on our recent purchase of this Oliver Ell (besides being conveniently 4-sale used in our hometown) was its Inverter-Solar-Battery setup! It appears we have newer batteries, advertised to be 1-2 years old and they look new (to bad installer did not punch the date codes). I love the setup in general and I'm totally fine with the installation of four (4) 225 AH 6V lead-acid golfcart style batteries!

I'm not the guy paying $XXX for LiFePO4 to save a few pounds, and a little more capacity, on an already light trailer. However, I'm certainly jealous of those of you who have the OTT Lithium Package - just nice! Cannot afford it here, while spending $XXX on other stuff!

Anyway, nobody really needs more than 450 AH, lithium or lead-acid (except for a few YouTube Class-A crazies!!!). Yes, we have ample storage, according to the battery labels, and I understand, though not verified, 380 watts of solar power!

Over the last 6 weeks, ever since the Oliver did not need A/C during the heat of the day, I left her unplugged (think Eric Clapton's unplugged version of Layla - yeah! ... Lol, just kidding). I believed the solar charger should take care of things. Unfortunately, this was not so! 

Last week, I noticed the interior Blue Sky panel was reading batteries at 82%, then 78%, even after a long day of Arizona sun, WTF. There is enough solar power for sure after 12+ hours of clear dry sun. Is the Blue Sky charger insufficient? I'm thinking so. Can solar panels go bad, or weak? Don't know...

Next thought, I should check into battery maintenance. Opened them up, added some distilled water, though no acid level was below the charging plates. Anyway, glad this maintenance is now done for this year. Found the front battery strap to be broken, with bungee attached and just crafted a new one. Batteries were at 12.32V and I would expect more, like 13.1V after a day in the AZ sun!

Connected a trusted automotive charger, watched the voltage gain gradually, while adding a light 10A charge. Batteries looking good means the Blue Sky solar charger is not. Got the batteries up to +12.8V, measured after the charger was disconnected for a few minutes. Later, plugged into shore power, first time since August, and soon volts read 13.01V. Will check again later tonight and in the morning.

So, how horrible is this Blue Sky ? In the older OTTs (ours), the LED panel is mounted just above knee height, and I have a bad neck!

[topgun2]

7 hours ago, jd1923 said:

We have an older 2016 Oliver #113

Oliver #117 takes offense at being called "Older"!

I'm not exactly sure what question you are asking.  My solar system still works just like the day I took delivery and there have never been ANY issues with it.

Its a little hard to tell exactly from your picture - but - is the battery terminal at the upper right as tight as it should be?

Is the wire/spade on the second terminal from the left tight?

I would not trust a bungee cord on the batteries but would contact Oliver Service and ask them to send you a new battery strap.  Or, make one yourself.

Bill

[John E Davies]

Wet batteries need to be checked when fully charged, using a cheap electrolyte hydrometer. Each cell should be close to each other. The acid should be clear, not dark grey. Even one low specific gravity cell will cause the other two to discharge. 

The two front batteries are probably damaged beyond repair - they must be strapped down solidly to prevent motion, which causes major internal damage to the lead plates. The exception is if the trailer was parked all the time, but if that were true, why even add a bungee?

When you service them you should make sure that all the terminals and cable ends are very clean and all the hardware is tight. Clean the batteries with a baking soda mix to neutralize any vented acid. Never add tap water, distilled only. Have you read through the battery owners manual? All your manuals are available to download.

Wet batteries are insanely heavy, a continual PITA to maintain, a risk of corroding your battery tray and the aluminum support structure, and are really are not suitable for RVs any more. This isn’t just my opinion. Consider replacing them with SLA. Upgrade the system right, don’t band aid fix an “older” design that isn’t ever going to provide peace of mind and low maintenance. Unfortunately lithium$ are very inappropriate for your hot desert location, if the trailer is stored outside, they do not tolerate lots of heat very well.

It should be easy to relocate the remote solar display to head height. It will tell you exactly what is going on with the panels. There may be a loose or corroded connection up top. The terminals on all these parts should be cleaned, including the hidden ones inside the controller and under the master switch. Blue Sky is uber high quality, marine grade hardware. Better than consumer grade stuff from Zamp or Renogy.

 

Have you verified that the solar switch is in the ON position?

John Davies

Spokane WA

[SeaDawg]

We've found the Blue Sky equipment to be almost bulletproof (we did manage to short out our 2512ix around 5 years ago, but it was completely our fault.)

Are any of the lights lit up on the 2512 controller? What does the indoor (in pro) panel tell you about charging? Do you have a battery disconnect switch, and is it on or off?

If you don't have the manual you can download it on the sunforge/blue sky site. There are also great videos to assist you in troubleshooting. 

You probably want to look through the manual, and the videos, and send an email to Ryan Gurin at Blue Sky, or give him a call. He's an amazing tech, and very helpful. Ryan really knows his stuff.  (Watching the videos and reading the manual first helps you gain familiarity, and you can probably eliminate a few troubleshooting steps before you speak with Ryan next week.)

https://sunforgellc.com/learning-center/

Solar panels don't often "go bad." They may not generate all the power they once did seven years ago when new, but degradation would likely be less than 3 to 5 per cent. 

Because of the reliability of Blue Sky, and Ryan's great customer service and technical support, we kept our Blue Sky gear, and added to it when we upgraded from 200 to 400+ watt panels a few years ago. 

Before you do any actual "work" on the system, other than checking with your meter, I'd cover up those panels, as they are undoubtedly producing power. We use dark blue packing quilts to cover ours. 

 

[topgun2]

JD makes a good point about the solar switch being in the "on" position - it appears to be in the "off" position in your photo.

Bill

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, topgun2 said:

Oliver #117 takes offense at being called "Older"!

I'm not exactly sure what question you are asking.  My solar system still works just like the day I took delivery and there have never been ANY issues with it. It's a little hard to tell exactly from your picture - but - is the battery terminal at the upper right as tight as it should be? Bill

I'm remembering a few months back, when we first joined this forum, you remarked that our Olivers were cousins. Old is good, or we're in trouble. I'm married to an old girl, she's wonderful and I can't live a day without her! And we have two old girls in Hulls 113 and 117, ours perhaps a few days older!

It seems @SeaDawg understood my question. Her reply was exactly what I was looking for!

Nothing wrong with the batteries or connections. There are odd posts for the main cable connections to the TT (see close-up pic). Thinking I should remove these tall bolts. Could this be original?

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Wet batteries need to be checked when fully charged, using a cheap electrolyte hydrometer...

The two front batteries are probably damaged beyond repair...

Wet batteries are insanely heavy, a continual PITA to maintain, a risk of corroding your battery tray and the aluminum support structure, and really are not suitable for RVs anymore. This isn’t just my opinion. Consider replacing them with SLA. 

It should be easy to relocate the remote solar display to head height. It will tell you exactly what is going on with the panels...

JD thanks for the Battery 101 stuff. I do have a 70s or 80s Prestone hydrometer in the shop but haven't used it for quite a while! All four 6V batteries were at exactly at 6.16V yesterday, and ALL 4 were at 6.69V this morning, after connecting to shore power again, being charged overnight by the PD4000. All readings are accurate to .01V, both pairs adding up to 13.38V in series, I would say this is the best battery bank I've seen in years.

I'm more the restoration kind-a guy, vs. everything is a poor design and the needs replacing kind. There is no way in the world I would replace these brand-new batteries at $299 ea for SLA. NEW Interstate 6V 6 Volt Golf Cart Battery RV marine solar deep cycle GC2 T105 | eBay

They are both lead-acid and the SLA is not serviceable. With sealed batteries you cannot use a hydrometer, nor see the acid and plates. Love the quick disconnect battery caps on these. The plates in these batteries are CLEAN, absolutely no calcification, the acid crystal clear, like the distilled water added, which only took a cup or so of water for all four with 5 minutes of maintenance. No need for baking soda, as the picture shows how clean they are. I will check acid levels 1-2 times a year and keep these for many years to come. most Class-As have these batteries, many lasting 7 years.

[topgun2]

48 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

There are odd posts for the main cable connections to the TT (see close-up pic). Thinking I should remove these tall bolts. Could this be original?

Certainly my batteries (also lead acid and still original) were not delivered with those bolts.  I'm guessing that there is nothing specifically "wrong" with them but ....

I check my lead acid batteries about every 60 days and find that they usually require a bit of water - never more than a cup for all 4 batteries.  During the winter I have a small solar panel always feeding them since I have a CalMark cover that shields the main panels on the roof.

Bill

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

We've found the Blue Sky equipment to be almost bulletproof...

Are any of the lights lit up on the 2512 controller? What does the indoor (in pro) panel tell you about charging? Do you have a battery disconnect switch, and is it on or off?

You probably want to look through the manual, and the videos...

Thanks @SeaDawg everything you have here is great advice. Thanks for the link. Had no idea there are videos available like these and yes, I've been into so much other maintenance that I've been dreading studying the Blue Sky manual. I was really good with our last Solar/Inverter system, because I installed it and understood every component. Not near yet on this one.

You asked the question, "is it on or off." @John E Davies asked it first, but it was at the end of so much other stuff that I didn't see it, and after your post @topgun2 wrote it again. Thanks Bill, third times the charm!

I hate to have to admit, that I simply had the switch off! What a dumb newbie thing. Sorry to waste everybody's time, but I do have other battery related questions to follow... First thing will be per @John E Davies suggestion, I should move the Blue Sky panel to head height! 

I remember about 2 months ago, reading a post about Inverter issues, needing a complete power off to reboot and I went out to learn some about this system. I had turned the big red switch off, then found out there is no battery disconnect switch, and after some interruption I forgot to return and switch it back on.

It was summer then, connected to shore power to run the A/C when parked, set at 84 degrees. It has been disconnected from shore power 3-4 weeks now and I run the Exterior Courtesy Lights 24x7 to fend off the dreadful Arizona Pack Rat! So, over 3-4 weeks the batteries dropped from 100% to 78% as normal.

Back to 100% this morning. Threw the main switch, input from the solar panels. The Blue Sky lights came on and with voltmeter measured 14.42V across both pairs of batteries, showing it's charging as designed. What a dummy I can be at times. 🙃

[jd1923]

26 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Certainly my batteries (also lead acid and still original) were not delivered with those bolts.  I'm guessing that there is nothing specifically "wrong" with them but ....

I check my lead acid batteries about every 60 days and find that they usually require a bit of water - never more than a cup for all 4 batteries.  During the winter I have a small solar panel always feeding them since I have a CalMark cover that shields the main panels on the roof.

Bill

Bill, when you wrote "original" could you mean your batteries are the originals, now 7 years old? If so, this is a testament to life of the 6V golfcart battery! 

I will certainly remove these tall posts soon. They can't be good, would accentuate any vibration of the main cables down those two extended posts (same thing on the main -neg post). A past owner must have added this for some reason, maybe for better clearance of the cables.

I need to remove all four batteries anyway, for a repair to the back of the bay. More on that later...

[topgun2]

Yes - the original Trojan T-105's are still in the same place.  I thought that this year they just might give up the ghost but - they performed as they usually do during my major camping trip out west for fishing.  Since new they have never been under 87% full!  I'm fairly conservative on my usage of electricity but I do watch a DVD movie about three or four times each week.  About all I use the microwave for is popcorn with the occasional heating of left overs for dinner.  After treating the battery posts with anti-corrosion treatment during the first year I've never had to get after them with baking soda.  But, I do clean them each time I wash the Ollie.

I'm going to wait until Spring and assume that at that time I'll replace them.  Certainly they don't owe me a dime and I'd rather not have them die while I'm on the road next year.

Bill

[SeaDawg]

I have a friend with 15 year old t105's, still going strong. Of course, he's a maintenance freak, they dont have an inverter. and they've been his all along. (You can't be sure of their maintenance prior to your ownership.) 

Glad everything worked out. As you get to know the Blue Sky gear, I know you will love it. It is seriously tough stuff, and extremely dependable.

They've been talking about adding Bluetooth control to their new pro digital panel. I'd call Ryan at sunforge/blue sky and see if it's available yet. If so, I'd get the new pro touch panel, with more info, and abandon the old one. Install the new at a readable height. I think it's less than $200. If no Bluetooth available yet, then move the existing Pro. Blue Sky offers a "panel" to enclose the upgrade, smaller footprint. All you'll probably  need is the nerve to cut a new hole somewhere,  and possibly a longer telephone type cable. 🙂

I've been totally ok with our old school pro, but we'll upgrade (someday when they get Bluetooth) to the new and cooler digital panel. Ours is located in the face of the attic. 

[John E Davies]

3 hours ago, jd1923 said:

 

That post extension is very bad. Steel is VERY wrong for this application. Put back the OEM style short stainless bolts, never put steel washers or extensions of any kind between a cable terminal and the battery terminal. If you feel the need to have increased height, use a solid brass or copper extension.

Also, the cable should not be stressed like those are, the tight curves will cause wire strands inside to break. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

JD thanks for the Battery 101 stuff. I do have a 70s or 80s Prestone hydrometer in the shop but haven't used it for quite a while! 

I hope you are joking about using that antifreeze tester in your batteries.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Ollie-Haus]

The cable lugs with the spacers have been address, but I have to say I was shocked, no pun intended, to see these kind of connections. This is grossly out of standard and a serious problem. It's hard to tell from the overhead photo, but it appears there may be additional spacers at other connections as well under the cable lugs. 

As was mentioned above, you need to have sparkling clean connections and all lugs should be stacked together against the lead base of the battery terminals, no spacers if possible. Any resistance at any and all of these connections will play havoc with your charging control system and it's efficiency. I firmly believe this could be a root cause that needs addressed before you trouble shoot other components downstream. I would systematically check/correct every connection in the system as a starting point. I wouldn't replace any component without verifying it's function first. Doing otherwise just introduces more variables to the problem, and of course adds undue cost. 

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

That post extension is very bad. Steel is VERY wrong for this application....

Also, the cable should not be stressed like those are, the tight curves will cause wire strands inside to break. 

Yep, thanks again @John E Davies and Bill and Sherry! These bolts are going and will get the cables coming from the other direction, so not turning against the wall.

Lol yeah, the Prestone was a similar looking tool, made for checking antifreeze concentration. My hydrometer is likely in the same tool drawer. They're both turkey-baster kind of tools!

[jd1923]

Our cable grommets at the rear of the battery bay are loose. They aren't even rubber grommets, but a vented plastic type. Brand new they would not keep battery fumes from entering the areas under the dinette and bed.

It appears the only way to correct this is to first pull the batteries out completely. This will be the time to correct the cable angle and connection bolts mentioned above. Any suggestions on a long-term fix for this? I could just glue these back in place. Maybe an exterior quality, minimal expansion, "Great Stuff" kind of product? Let me know if this has happened to your rig.

[SeaDawg]

Well, those grommets aren't doing a thing for you, right now. Nylon or some other type of plastic, useless if not seated in the opening. Rough fiberglass is abrasive.

Now's a great time to replace with a barbed grommet, or cable glands, that will stay put, since you're pulling the batteries, etc.. Material of your choice.

Also, carefully inspect the cables for any apparent abrasions in the sheathing.  Hopefully,  none, but you do want to know.

I'm always inspecting ours, as battety compartment is pretty much under our heads.

Btw, in Florida heat, we inspect water levels in the sailboat (fla batteries) monthly, or at least every 6 weeks,  in summer. I would certainly do the same in Arizona.  Use distilled water only, as you know,  of course. 

Winter, we can check every two to three months, and seem to be ok. 

Our trailer has agms.

As @John E Davies suggested, I would definitely check all 4 batteries. Your system will only charge to the level of the weakest, and if you have a bad cell in one, you'll have issues. 

If I were you, I'd still check in with Ryan at bluesky/sunforge, and make sure your settings on the charger are correct for your type of batteries. 

I do agree with you,  that for many of us, fla or agm, is plenty, if we limit power consumption.  

By the way, not  for you, but for future readers of this thread, do NOT  go over your skill level zone , with electricity, and electronics. 

If unfamiliar with making connections, get a professional to help.

Make SURE panels are covered and turned off before attempting work . Better to be double safe, than sorry, and fry something.  Or, hurt yourself.

 

 

[jd1923]

I will test each battery separately, when I have them out. My feeling is I have a set of like new batteries, as advertised installed in 2022. I removed the shore power today, turned on the exterior courtesy lights and will run more stuff during the day and night to make these batteries work. Like to bring them down to 60% and then see the solar charger bring them up after a long sunny day. Everyday is a sunny day in Arizona! 

Good news is the battery bay door seals nicely, none of that AZ dirt inside, that iron oxide red dust that @John E Davies has warned us of.

Took the negative battery post apart today. Can see why past owner added these tall posts, as there is no way to mount 2 heavy gauge battery cables. I would have purchased similar batteries with taller 3/8" posts. These are 1/2" short 5/16" posts. I need a battery terminal to add two battery cables and 2-3 8GA cables to each post. Looked for 15 minutes on Amazon, weeding through the cr@p, not much there.

With only a few minutes into this, I'm thinking why not just mount a copper bar. I'm interested in @John E Davies input on this. For $18 on Amazon, I can buy an 8" length of pure copper, 1/4" thick, 1" wide. I can cut this into two 4" pieces for both +/- terminals. Drill a 5/16" hole to mount to the battery post and drill two 3/8" holes for the cables and bolt through with copper washers. Love to find a quality prebuild post, but not seeing anything that would work effectively for my need. Please let me know if this idea would work, is a copper bar good, perhaps aluminum is better in the elements, or are there better options? Thanks
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B9NDVW9J/?coliid=I35ZMYZFHWRUXC&colid=2UU65RMAO0WYD&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1

 

[ScubaRx]

On 10/7/2023 at 12:05 AM, jd1923 said:

So, how horrible is this Blue Sky ? In the older OTTs (ours), the LED panel is mounted just above knee height, and I have a bad neck!

At Oliver's request, in late 2013, I designed the first solar system that would go on to be installed in all the OEII's from 2014 and beyond from Hulls #050 thru #199. I included the best equipment on the market at the time. Blue Sky was the cream of the crop. Victron was just a future dream. Victron does not work any better than the Blue Sky stuff, it's just slicker, has more bells and whistles and better integration. My panel was not mounted where yours is. It is up at eye level where it should be because that's where I told them to put it. I don't know who's bonehead idea it was to start putting them down below the pantry, but I told them is was a bad idea. Just like I told them switching to Zamp was a bad idea when they began installing them starting with Hull #200. It took them years to finally change to something better (Victron).

 

On 10/7/2023 at 9:49 PM, jd1923 said:

Took the negative battery post apart today. Can see why past owner added these tall posts, as there is no way to mount 2 heavy gauge battery cables. I would have purchased similar batteries with taller 3/8" posts. These are 1/2" short 5/16" posts. I need a battery terminal to add two battery cables and 2-3 8GA cables to each post. Looked for 15 minutes on Amazon, weeding through the cr@p, not much there.

 

With only a few minutes into this, I'm thinking why not just mount a copper bar. I'm interested in @John E Davies input on this. For $18 on Amazon, I can buy an 8" length of pure copper, 1/4" thick, 1" wide. I can cut this into two 4" pieces for both +/- terminals. Drill a 5/16" hole to mount to the battery post and drill two 3/8" holes for the cables and bolt through with copper washers. Love to find a quality prebuild post, but not seeing anything that would work effectively for my need. Please let me know if this idea would work, is a copper bar good, or are there better options? Thanks

Most of us have moved all the wires out of the battery box except the jumpers and the main cables that feed the cabin. All those wires are now attached to buss bars, one for negatives and one for positives. It really cleans up the inside of the box and makes adding or changing things much simpler. Plus, you don't need taller posts on the batteries.  You could use copper bars but the buss bars are cheaper and come already purposed for what you want to do.

[jd1923]

Thanks Steve, for the bit of OTT history! So, I should be happy with Hull #113, vs. #200+. I withdraw anything I wrote bad re Blue Sky. There was nothing wrong with the system, only the knee-height installation! I should move that screen ASAP, waiting for the Bluetooth version that @SeaDawg suggested.

Our previous RV had only two old marine batteries on a rusted battery tray! I knew nothing about solar and inverters, but learned as I installed a complete system. Below is the system design I built and a readout of the Bogart Engineering battery monitoring system, Wi-Fi connect to my phone.

I cut the power bus in the PD55, to create the dual bus system you see in the bottom right corner of the diagram below. One side for most appliances, shore power or inverter with instant change-over, and the other side for the A/C not powered by the inverter.

You could read ALL charging stats, sitting in your warm living room as the RV was out in the winter cold. The lefthand readout picture below shows morning status after running the inverter with TV A/V system on all night, and the righthand picture showing status fully charged after a sunny day. Hopefully the Blue Sky Bluetooth version will display something like this.

I can certainly move the smaller cables inside, but that is not the problem. Look at my first picture above in the top right corner. You need to mount two (2) heavy gauge battery cables, in this one position. These short battery terminal posts do not have the depth to do that.  

[jd1923]

13 hours ago, John E Davies said:

Wet batteries are insanely heavy, a continual PITA to maintain, a risk of corroding your battery tray and the aluminum support structure...

@John E Davies you're going to like this one! Before and after on the battery tray in my old Bigfoot. Other BF owners on their forum purchased a new Kwikee tray $$$, but it was my challenge to rebuild this one with new 20" slides and toolbox rubber lining.

[ScubaRx]

On 10/7/2023 at 10:45 PM, jd1923 said:

I can certainly move the smaller cables inside, but that is not the problem. Look at my first picture above in the top right corner. You need to mount two (2) heavy gauge battery cables, in this one position. These short battery terminal posts do not have the depth to do that. 

I apologize for not realizing the posts were too short to accommodate two stacked 4/0 terminals. You are correct, of course, and I thought your use of the threaded rod connectors to lengthen the battery terminals was innovative and rather elegant, but as someone mentioned earlier, steel is not the conductor of choice here. Copper or brass would be much better but you'd likely have to make your own.

[jd1923]

21 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

I apologize for not realizing the posts were too short to accommodate two stacked 4/0 terminals. You are correct, of course, and I thought your use of the threaded rod connectors to lengthen the battery terminals was innovative and rather elegant. 

NP Scuba Steve, you're the best and the Guru of all things OTT! 

Elegant in a way yes, though it will soon be improved to be more shock resistant. Ordered my bus parts and will share soon. I'm going for solid copper busses at both +/- terminals. Thanks

[jd1923]

Study, look long and hard at the Progressive Dynamics (PD) interface diagram above. I have for hours and have learned so much from it. I installed their model PD1618 in an RV. What amazing products PD makes for RVs and their user manuals are easy to understand, as compared to others. 

Don't be afraid to run your inverter long, if your battery bank is sufficient. We have 450 AH now, last time had only 315 AH and would run ours on-n-off, day and night, and always make coffee in the morning, solar recharging by 10 AM. 

Check out the 120V AC split-bus concept, with main panel (shore/generator) and sub panel (Inverter). This is drawn out, see bottom right corner of the PD diagram, also on page 6 of the PD1600 Operation Guide.

PD1600-Operation-Guide-701580.pdf