Charging Ollie With Multiple PowerSources, split from flex panels thread

[mossemi]

@RonbrinkJust adding some pictures to @jd1923 comments.  The first picture is from the Smart Shunt Manual and the second is of my installation via the Victron Remote Management or VRM over WiFi.

Mossey 

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

The first picture is from the Smart Shunt Manual and the second is of my installation via the Victron Remote Management or VRM over WiFi. Mossey 

Mossey, this is so cool!

I'm assuming the 2nd pic is your computer screen (or smartphone) connected by Wi-Fi and VRM. Besides battery and charge data, looks like you have your GX device integrated to temp sensors placed in the cabin, fridge and other locations (I would place one on the incoming water lines by the rear wall in the trunk). Also, you tapped into your tank level panel or the sensor wires to read resistance for % full. Please confirm my assumptions. Thank you.

This also confirms @Ronbrink does not need a Bluetooth dongle with the Cerbo GX. If you have a Mod post on your installation, I sure want to study it. Also, please let know what temp sensors to purchase that can be read the VRM as you have shown here. Very nice!

[mossemi]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Mossey, this is so cool!

I'm assuming the 2nd pic is your computer screen (or smartphone) connected by Wi-Fi and VRM. Besides battery and charge data, looks like you have your GX device integrated to temp sensors placed in the cabin, fridge and other locations (I would place one on the incoming water lines by the rear wall in the trunk). Also, you tapped into your tank level panel or the sensor wires to read resistance for % full. Please confirm my assumptions. Thank you.

This also confirms @Ronbrink does not need a Bluetooth dongle with the Cerbo GX. If you have a Mod post on your installation, I sure want to study it. Also, please let know what temp sensors to purchase that can be read the VRM as you have shown here. Very nice!

Thanks for the kind words.  Sorry, I don’t document my projects very well.  The MOP's I’ve written have always been from my point of view and I have a difficult time writing them so everybody can follow my thoughts. 
A little history of how I got to this point.  My Xantrex 2000 ProWatt inverter failed in my second year of ownership and I wasn’t confident enough to start buying Victron gear and putting in a Multi Plus instead of another Xantrex.  When one of my Trojan 105's failed, I moved to 2 Battle Borns and added a BMV 712.  The Smart Shunt was not available and I never have really used the 712 display, it’s always been mounted in the below the seating/sleeping area’s.  So I used an old cellular phone and Bluetooth to communicate with the 712.  I also have tested the Bluetooth by moving the 712 display high and low and RF always propagate's better with elevation.  Moving on, I used a Raspberry Pi micro computer and display running Victron software.  That was a $400 experiment that just wetted my appetite for more Victron gear.  Because I was already running Victron software, I was aware of Victron's plans to integrate SeeLevel, Mopeka and Ruuvi sensors and decided to upgrade to a Cerbo GX with a 7 inch display.  The Ruuvi tags were the easiest add and the Mopeka was pretty simple as well.  The SeeLevel required a new display and a modified Comm cable.  Some place along this journey I also added a Victron MPPT 150/45 SC and two 90 watt solar panels and a third Battle Born.  I'm never satisfied with the mods I do, so things are in a state of flux most of the time.  And I failed planning one 0 one.  Enough about my limitations!  
There is a Ruuvi sensor in the fridge, on the kitchen counter, tie wrapped to the SS jack post and the fourth is in the Propane  box for outside temp readings. 

 

I am adding some locations for information on items you mentioned.  Victron's community forum is a great place for answers and don’t forget the Air forums.  There are some very smart people there with Victron gear.

[Ronbrink]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:27 AM, MAX Burner said:

I'll try the 3rd one for the Dongle and check the signal strength in the TV.

Curious, have you tried this yet?

[Ronbrink]

19 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I believe it states the Cerbo GX has built-in Wi-Fi and if it has Wi-Fi you do not need the Bluetooth Dongle, as Wi-Fi is a stronger connection and can be network based.

Thanks for the your very informative reply, much appreciated! However, I have the Cerbo-S GX, which is a less expensive model with limited functionality. I would like to install the VE.Direct Smart Dongle with BT to hopefully be able to monitor the battery bank from the driver’s seat via the app. Despite what I have read (GX devices are not compatible with said Dongle), maybe someone with practical experience can prove that wrong. Then again, maybe Wi-Fi is the ticket! Again thanks!

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, mossemi said:

...Because I was already running Victron software, I was aware of Victron's plans to integrate SeeLevel, Mopeka and Ruuvi sensors and decided to upgrade to a Cerbo GX with a 7 inch display.  The Ruuvi tags were the easiest add and the Mopeka was pretty simple as well... There is a Ruuvi sensor in the fridge, on the kitchen counter, tie wrapped to the SS jack post and the fourth is in the Propane  box for outside temp readings...

This is great information thank-you! I did not know of any of these brand name sensors, except for other SeeLevel products. More interested in Mopeka and Ruuvi. Were you able to get Mopeka sensors under your fresh, gray and black tanks? That would seem a challenge! Or do they work side mounted? I see they have LP tank sensors too which would be a nice future addition.

On the Ruuvi sensors, I found 3 types. This one on eBay is half price compared to other sources. I emailed this seller asking about legitimacy, and they replied first thing this morning; "These are the real Ruuvis!" This one is white and round and other models are gray and look to have mounting holes. Please comment, thanks again. Ruuvi Bluetooth Sensor 4 in 1 Temperature, Humidity, Air Pressure and Motion | eBay

[mossemi]

14 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

More interested in Mopeka and Ruuvi

Mopeka only monitors the propane tanks.  They are magnetic and stick to the bottom of the propane tanks.

RuuviTags are from Finland and that is where I got mine.  They have been around long enough to be sold on the web.  Check out the web site and compare packaging and photos.  The black one with mounting ears is the 3 in 1 and is weatherproof.  That’s the one I have in the propane box.  My others are all white and the have silicone holders much like Apple Air Tags you find on Amazon.

Mossey

[jd1923]

Thanks again @mossemi!

The only question I still have is how did you integrate your tank level data to the Cerbo GX? Did you use Mopeka or Ruuvi sensors (if so, how are they mounted)? Werw you able to tap into the OTT tank level wiring or panel? Or another method?

Edited January 22 by jd1923
Expanded questions

[mossemi]

22 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Thanks again @mossemi!

The only question I still have is how did you integrate your tank level data to the Cerbo GX? Did you use Mopeka or Ruuvi sensors (if so, how are they mounted)? Werw you able to tap into the OTT tank level wiring or panel? Or another method?

The following information applies to Hull 193.

SeeLevel monitors fresh, grey and black water levels and the battery voltage.  In order to display that information on my Cerbo GX Touch display, a new SeeLevel display and a modified comm cable from the SeeLevel display to the Cerbo GX was required.

Mopeka monitors the propane level of the propane tanks and required a Mopeka Pro Check Universal for steel tanks for each tank to be monitored.  

RuuviTag's monitor the temperature, humidity, air pressure and motion.  I have 3 of this model in Hull 193.

The RuuviTag Pro is available in IP67 or IP68/ IP69 versions for wet and rough conditions.  I have one IP67 model in the propane box.

Mopeka and RuuviTag sensors communicate with the Cerbo GX via bluetooth.

I am including some resources that may be of help.

Mossey

 

Victron Cerbo GX Links.pdf

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

SeeLevel monitors fresh, grey and black water levels and the battery voltage.  In order to display that information on my Cerbo GX Touch display, a new SeeLevel display and a modified comm cable from the SeeLevel display to the Cerbo GX was required.

Mopeka monitors the propane level of the propane tanks and required a Mopeka Pro Check Universal for steel tanks for each tank to be monitored.  

RuuviTag's monitor the temperature, humidity, air pressure and motion.  

Excellent rundown, thanks Mike! You did mention previously about needing "a new SeeLevel display and a modified comm cable" but I didn't get it fully until now. 

With your helpful information, I just bought 4 Ruuvi tags! I went with the eBay listing sited above at $20/ea, $100 total taxed and shipped. Wrote the seller back to say if they were not legit Ruuvi, which he promised, he'd be paying for the return shipping label along with a refund! Elsewhere they're $40 each. I'm thinking one on the rear wall in the basement by the incoming water lines, one in the fridge, one in the cabin on the wall right next to the thermostat (are these thermostats capable of displaying actual temp vs. set temp?) and a 4th extra placement TBD.

I now have the Mopeka Pro's on my shopping list for the propane tanks. They have a neat kit that includes 2 sensors and 2 plastic insulating rings for the tanks: 
Amazon.com : Mopeka Pro Check Universal Bundle - 2 Pro Universal Sensors and 2 Tank Halos - Wireless Propane Tank Gauge Sensor - BBQ and RV Must Have Accessories Monitors Outside Propane Tank Levels in your Camper : Patio, Lawn & Garden

Thanks again! I did not know the right direction for temp and tank sensors and learning here these products integrate with the Victron Cerbo GX will future-proof my purchases. For now, I'll download Ruuvi and Mopeka Bluetooth apps to read these sensors.

[mossemi]

6 hours ago, jd1923 said:

are these thermostats capable of displaying actual temp vs. set temp?)

I am using a MicroAir thermostat and I don’t remember if it or the Dometic display the set and actual temps.  I am old school, if the AC in running I just assume that it has not reached the set point or if Krunch says it too hot or cold, I can change it with an app, but usually just change it manually.

Mossey

And this is the Bluetooth adapter that I am using in the Cerbo GX, instead of the onboard Bluetooth adapter.

 

[jd1923]

Got our Ruuvi tags yesterday and had time to set them up today. I did buy the $20/ea eBay item listed above. Got 4 for $100, taxed and shipped.

Some good and bad with these. Good news they are real Ruuvi, but according to the setup instructions in the app, these are an older model (two internal buttons vs. one). Now the 1/2 price makes sense since this eBay seller likely buys out old stock. Though now that I have everything working, I'm glad to have saved $100!

They open easy with a small screwdriver to get them started, then use your hands. It is not a plastic snap-fit, there is actually an O-ring seal and light press fit. Pull the plastic off the CR2477 battery and you'll see an LED light blink. Download the Ruuvi Station app and follow instructions. It was quite intuitive. It might take the app a minute to see the device. If you have the older model, you have to update the firmware immediately, otherwise the Bluetooth will not connect. Overall, about a half hour and I was up and running. I believe with the update, there shouldn't be much difference from the new model. They read temp, humidity, barometric pressure and motion. Given the motion sensor, thinking of putting one of these at the base of our hot tub for packrat hunting! 🤣

I do not have the Victron Cerbo at this time as @mossemiillustrated above, but upon such upgrade, I can integrate these. The Bluetooth is strong enough. I had two in my living room, walked out to our parked Oliver (~70 ft line-of-sight) and put one in the trunk area by the rear incoming water lines and just placed another on the counter for now (this one is behind our Tuff Shed). As I was doing this, the app was reading all 4 sensors continuously. I named all four to show location, but also keeping the sensor ID# for reference. I will tape them in place later, with a very small piece of 3M VHB. The one sitting on the counter will be taped right beside the thermostat, so I can tell actual temp, not just set temp. The third one will go in the fridge and I'm thinking the 4th under the front dinette opening down low near the back tank which is furthest from the furnace.

The one named Black is currently outdoors on a stone wall attached to our house. That is why it is a few degrees warmer and less relative humidity than the two placed in the Oliver.  The one named Fridge is sitting on the far/cold side of our LR.

They seem quite accurate. We've had rain lately, hence the humidity. The temps seem right on too, and the movements make sense since the one I setup first has the most and they count down in descending order.
Wow! What a very nice mod for the money.

[Geronimo John]

Back to the VE.Direct.  

My goal is to extend the Bluetooth range to the driver seat of our TV.  So connecting it to the Victron Orion 12/12 - 30 charger we have mounted under the front dinette seat is the logical connection point IF:  

         A.  Is the dongle rated for wet or moist location?

         B.  How long is the factory dongle cable?

Reason for asking is with our DC to DC Charger, we have path directly to the propane compartment.  If the answers to the above two questions are favorable, I would mount the dongle high in the prone tank area  on the fore and port side undersurface. This would shorten the distance from the dongle to the TV driver position and not require the dongle to transmit through the reflex insulation.

Maybe with a Velcro attachments under the top front corner of the area lid to make tank service lid removal easy. 

 GJ

[SeaDawg]

I just pulled up the manual for the ve direct smart dongle. Factory cable is 1.5 meters. There is a note that the cable should not be extended. (Highlighted in blue in install instructions below.)

I ran a search within the manual for ip67 rating (many of there products are ip67 rated), but nothing came up. I skimmed the 10 pages, and found nothing about water resistance. I'd give them a call.

[SeaDawg]

@jd1923 reported that he got good signal in his tv after he mounted the dongle. I dont remember where he mounted it. I'm sure he'll chime in.

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

My goal is to extend the Bluetooth range to the driver seat of our TV.  So connecting it to the Victron Orion 12/12 - 30 charger we have mounted under the front dinette seat is the logical connection point IF:  
A.  Is the dongle rated for wet or moist location?
B.  How long is the factory dongle cable?

GJ yes, the cable is 1.5M or 5 FT. Not sure on waterproof, not advertised as such though the case is a 2-piece plastic tight snap fit where a moist location is likely OK.

I don't see that you would need to run it to the propane tanks. Just connect it to your charger under the dinette and it should work. A taller location is better than low and closer. I don't see why it would not work anywhere under the dinette though. Mine is sitting on the rear of the batteries. I can read it while driving, read it from my LR window 60 FT away with a Tuff Shed blocking line-of-sight. I can also read it from my truck, when unhitched parked a car length or more in front of the Oliver.

If you do want to mount it further, they sell Victron VE.Direct extension cables and on page 3 of this post I have a link to a $6 terminal kit where you can make your own extension cables (and drill only enough to pass a thin cable). Best reception would be to mount the dongle in an upper interior cabinet.

[Geronimo John]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Best reception would be to mount the dongle in an upper interior cabinet.

Thanks for the good info on mounting the dongle.    If June is with me, she can easily cut and re-terminate just about any of this stuff, but I leave it to her as I would not be successful.  Way too small for these ole eyeballs.

Also roger on higher vs closer and 5' of cable.  If it works from under the dinette seat that's all I really am needing.

Mahalo!

GJ 

[MAX Burner]

On 2/21/2024 at 8:02 PM, Geronimo John said:

Also roger on higher vs closer and 5' of cable.  If it works from under the dinette seat that's all I really am needing.

Hey, @Geronimo John - as I recall, your Victron DC/DC charger is under your FWD Dinette Seat...  That may be close enough to monitor your Victron APP from the TV Cab.

Our's is under the AFT Seat - and the BT signal is weak at best.  Testing the range last month while on a trip to AZ, we learned that the BT signal registered a couple bars (using the Victron APP) at 15 feet from the street side and at about a 45-degree angle.  Not enough to make it to the TV cab.  Our model of Victron Orion Smart DC/DC charger only has BT and not a VE Direct connection for a Dongle.  

That's why we're looking at a possible BT transmitter/booster to connect to the Cerbo S GX unit's USB.  We're hoping to get the Cerbo signal with charging data into the cab that way.

@mossemi - Just wondering...  Are you able to monitor your Victron charging data while towing with your current configuration? 

[mossemi]

5 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

@mossemi - Just wondering...  Are you able to monitor your Victron charging data while towing with your current configuration? 

Good question!  I don’t know, never tried, but I will just for you😎 and let you know.

I did a simulated hookup by backing my F150 up to the Bulldog and did a test.  I had no problem connecting to my Victron BMV-712 which has its own Bluetooth radio in the display and is installed under the SS bed.  These 2 pictures show the BMV-712 Bluetooth off and on.

Mossey

Bluetooth off while I was in Ollie.

 

 

Bluetooth on while I was in my truck.

[Geronimo John]

On 2/23/2024 at 3:02 AM, MAX Burner said:

Hey, @Geronimo John - as I recall, your Victron DC/DC charger is under your FWD Dinette Seat...  That may be close enough to monitor your Victron APP from the TV Cab.

Correct on location.  I can pick it up just outside Ollie, but at 10' I lose the Victron Connect signal.  Hence the need for an extender.

 

On 2/23/2024 at 3:02 AM, MAX Burner said:

 Our model of Victron Orion Smart DC/DC charger only has BT and not a VE Direct connection for a Dongle.  

From today's reading, I have learned that any Victron device that has the word "Smart" in it's name has Bluetooth connectivity.  This would seem to imply that it should not be necessary to upgrade to the Cerbo or other computer based systems unless there are other features you want to have.

Is this thinking logical?

GJ

 

[Geronimo John]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:53 PM, jd1923 said:

I don't see that you would need to run it to the propane tanks. Just connect it to your charger under the dinette and it should work. A taller location is better than low and closer

Using the "Any Victron device that has the word "Smart" in it's name has Bluetooth connectivity" may open up another option.  Can we combine my having the Victron 712 Smart Shunt in the battery box and your "Higher is better than closer" concepts?

What if I connect the dongle to the shunt and run its five feet of cable up to the upper cabinets of the street side.  Then extend the dongle forward until I run out of cable.  At that location, stick the dongle to the ceiling of the cabinet. Much higher than under the dinette location, and not much further back.

Your thoughts?

GJ

[Geronimo John]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:29 AM, mossemi said:

Bluetooth radio

Mike:

What's a BLuetooth Radio?

Were you using a dongle or just the 712 Smart (Shunt and Display Combo)?

If not using a dongle, does the 712 Smart System broadcast the Bluetooth "signal" from the shunt or the display?

Thanks, I really don't know much about how these type of systems really work.

GJ

 

[mossemi]

@Geronimo John

What's a BLuetooth Radio?

My bad!  Poor choice of words.  I consider any device that can receive, transmit or both an RF signal, a radio. Let’s use a cellular phone as an example.  Smart cellphone's have several "radio's" inside of them.  First is the cellular radio which is actually a transceiver, meaning it can transmit and receive RF/radio frequency signals.  Second is the GPS radio which can receive satellite signals and provide location service when you are out of cellular service.  The phone also has an A-GPS which is Assisted GPS which receives GPS data from the cellular network and combines it with the satellite data.  A-GPS works better indoors where satellite signal are weaker.  The third is the WiFi radio which is also a transceiver.  The fourth radio is the Bluetooth radio which is a transmitter.

Were you using a dongle or just the 712 Smart (Shunt and Display Combo)?

I am using a BMV-712.

If not using a dongle, does the 712 Smart System broadcast the Bluetooth "signal" from the shunt or the display?

From the display.

I believe part of the inherent Bluetooth transmit problem with the Smart Shunt is the placement of the Bluetooth transmitter which is stuck onto the shunt itself.  It will never transmit an omnidirectional signal so it is probably possible to increase its transmitter range by changing its orientation.  The same thought would also apply to the Smart Dongle which I believe is also directional by design.

Mossey

[Geronimo John]

On 2/21/2024 at 2:53 PM, jd1923 said:

I don't see that you would need to run it to the propane tanks. Just connect it to your charger under the dinette and it should work.

From the Victron 712 Smart manual, below are the connections.  I assume that the VE.Direct (Terminal I) is where I could plug in the dongle which appears to also have a 4 wire flat "VE Direct" connector.    

Being higher in the trailer than below the dinette seat (Where my Victron Orion 12/12-30 resides, it would seem that the 712 monitor would be a more optimal location.... "Higher is better than closer" info from JD1923.

Sadly the 712 monitor is installed in the fiberglass and rotation is not an option.  

37 minutes ago, mossemi said:

It will never transmit an omnidirectional signal so it is probably possible to increase its transmitter range by changing its orientation.

[jd1923]

23 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

What if I connect the dongle to the shunt and run its five feet of cable up to the upper cabinets of the street side.  Then extend the dongle forward until I run out of cable.  At that location, stick the dongle to the ceiling of the cabinet. Much higher than under the dinette location, and not much further back. Your thoughts? GJ

I was going to run mine from the battery bay up to the pantry or somewhere, but then the Dongle worked fine just tied to the rear battery ground cable. I did not have to run it higher to receive from the TV and farther.

If you need to run much farther, this kit allows you to make your own cables, any length for $8 plus the costs of wire: Amazon.com: 20 Sets Mini Micro Jst 2.0 Ph 4 Pin Connector Plug Male With 150mm Cable & Female : Electronics