One dead wet cell battery

[Geronimo John]

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

 GJ, does this qualify as a bonafide thread hijack?

No.  Emergency situations while in the bush are addressed under Forum Rule 12.34B and you are allowed to communicated in any way such events.  Also, they are not considered as hijackering.  Something that this owner never does and can't even spell the work correctly.

GJ

 

[Geronimo John]

3 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I see where others have installed such switches, even directly atop the batteries, but do not recall any talk of resulting adverse conditions. Thanks for your valued input.

First, I would buy spare fuses for all the sizes and types your trailer has.  The trouble shooting process that likely will follow WILL likely result in your needing them.

😞

GJ

[Cort]

Thanks to everyone for their help and I apologize for the misleading terminal covers!

I took the new and really dead battery to Batteries Plus for testing. Their testing showed it was low enough that they assumed it was a broken battery. They were able to get it to hold a charge but said the numbers were jumping around a lot which they thought was strange. I was able to return the battery at Camper World and then went to West Valley RV and bought 4 Interstate batteries for about $150 less than I would have paid for the Camper World batteries. Since then everything has been fine. 🙂

What a strange thing that putting that one battery in caused such bizarrely high readings - at least when hooked up. (When I took the batteries off the circuit the new one read dead and the others read 4 something. )

We're camping a couple of hours west of Phoenix now - thanks again for all your help 🙂

 

[jd1923]

White van, white Oliver, looks like a nicely matched set! 😊

[Geronimo John]

2 hours ago, Cort said:

What a strange thing that putting that one battery in caused such bizarrely high readings - at least when hooked up.

A good example of the DYI Pros that trailer batteries are considered as a matched set.  One fails, best to either run one less battery, or replace them all.  

Lesson reminded.

GJ

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, Geronimo John said:

A good example of the DYI Pros that trailer batteries are considered as a matched set.  One fails, best to either run one less battery, or replace them all.  

Lesson reminded.

GJ

In the case of 6v batteries, run with 2 less.  2 x 6 = 12. Half amperage, but entirely doable,,with power management. 

I have a number of friends with sob trailers, who boondock  (carefully,  for  few days) with one 12v battery. As have we, in sob campers.

[mossemi]

On 12/29/2023 at 11:51 AM, Ronbrink said:

I am still hopeful for a switch install, but need to first understand a ‘fix’ or ‘workaround’ for the anomalies experienced. I see where others have installed such switches, even directly atop the batteries, but do not recall any talk of resulting adverse conditions. Thanks for your valued input.

So I’m still thinking about your attempted battery cutoff install.  And the forum is a tough format for troubleshooting, kind of like a visually impaired art critic  In order to have the 12v lights fading on and off and the radio making strange noises after disconnecting the B+ cable, there must have been 12v somewhere in the trailer that wasn’t coming from the battery.  So I have a couple of questions.

1. Was the house battery negative disconnected or just the positive?  You didn’t mention the B- cable.

2. I hate to do this, but I assume the tow vehicle was not connected, correct?

3. Your forum signature states that you have a Renogy DC-DC installed, which I have no working knowledge of.  Is it installed in the Oliver?  Does it only work with the ignition on?  Does it have the ability to store energy, maybe an internal capacitor?

4. You might try turning off all 12v breakers and removing fuses.  Verify the power is off with the Victron Smart Shunt app or a DC clamp on Amp meter.  Then remove the main battery fuse as a different method of disconnecting the 12v supply from the battery.  At least you would be inside if the fireworks started again.

I’ll keep thinking of troubleshooting methods because I hate being baffled by the unknown.

Mossey

[mossemi]

4 hours ago, Cort said:

We're camping a couple of hours west of Phoenix now - thanks again for all your help 🙂

Glad everything is back in working order and you were able to move out of the hotel!  I do have at least one question, how was it determined that only one battery was bad to begin with?  I don’t think you mentioned that in your initial post.

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

10 hours ago, mossemi said:

So I’m still thinking about your attempted battery cutoff install.

Thank you for your continued attention to this matter, much appreciated! In response to your questions:

1. Was the house battery negative disconnected or just the positive?  You didn’t mention the B- cable. - - The negative cable was not disconnected, only the positive at the battery terminal. 

2. I hate to do this, but I assume the tow vehicle was not connected, correct? - - That is correct, the Oliver was stowed at the storage facility and not connected to the TV.

3. Your forum signature states that you have a Renogy DC-DC installed, which I have no working knowledge of.  Is it installed in the Oliver?  Does it only work with the ignition on?  Does it have the ability to store energy, maybe an internal capacitor? - - The DC-DC is installed within the rear dinette seat hatch. - - When the unit is plugged into the TV via a dedicated cable, it only receives power when the engine is running/alternator turning. - - Regarding an internal capacitor, a brief search indicates there is a very small electronic capacitor on the motherboard, this based on a teardown wherein a “JP” capacitor, 105C was referenced. The following statement by Renogy may or may not be useful information:

The DC-DC battery charger isolates the input and output to prevent voltage transmission errors and interfere with house battery charging.

4. You might try turning off all 12v breakers and removing fuses.  Verify the power is off with the Victron Smart Shunt app or a DC clamp on Amp meter.  Then remove the main battery fuse as a different method of disconnecting the 12v supply from the battery.  At least you would be inside if the fireworks started again. - - Good suggestions, my retired Navy-trained electronic specialist Son will be visiting New Year’s Day; I will certainly commandeer him to help troubleshoot! I will say that he has either assisted and/or advised me on all of my electrical upgrades to the Oliver, so I have a high level of confidence my current inherent issue(s) to be minor and easily remedied. 

Another bit of info; although the lead positive cable was disconnected to isolate the battery bank, a small positive jumper wire feeding the SmartShunt remained connected. However, my Son assured me that was not a potential power source contributing to the anomalies observed.

Edit: Following the event, I gave thought that perhaps a capacitor in the Xantrex XC2000 inverter/charger could be the culprit, but holiday celebrations put the thought on hold until you jarred my memory. A quick search in the Xantrex Owner’s Guide and voila; under Product Safety Information, line 6:

 

What think you?

 

 

[mossemi]

@Ronbrink

Thank you for the detailed reply.  Hopefully your son will find the solution tomorrow.  I don’t think it has been mentioned in the original or any follow up post about batteries, but when I am working with batteries I always disconnect the negative/B- cable first and cover the terminal with nonconducting material to prevent any unintended contact with a ground source which will re-energize the circuit.  If I am removing the battery, I will then disconnect the positive/B+.  I reassemble in the reverse order.  I will add that some people place the battery disconnect switch on the negative side of the battery.

Good luck,

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

26 minutes ago, mossemi said:

Thank you for the detailed reply.

I added an ‘Edit’ to my last, which may be of interest! 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

4 hours ago, mossemi said:

@Ronbrink

<snip>
 I am working with batteries I always disconnect the negative/B- cable first and cover the terminal with nonconducting material to prevent any unintended contact with a ground source which will re-energize the circuit.  
<snip>

Good luck,

Mossey

Always, always, but always disconnect the negative terminal first!  I believe I shared the story about trying to arc weld a wrench to a Huey airframe.😳

[Cort]

18 hours ago, jd1923 said:

White van, white Oliver, looks like a nicely matched set! 😊

It is isn't it! Thanks 🙂

[Cort]

16 hours ago, mossemi said:

Glad everything is back in working order and you were able to move out of the hotel!  I do have at least one question, how was it determined that only one battery was bad to begin with?  I don’t think you mentioned that in your initial post.

Mossey

I checked them with a volt meter and found 3 at 13 something and one that was dead.