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Those that might be contemplating getting a Levelmate should know that a newer model was released last year called the Levelmate Max. I had never gone for a Levelmate before but decided to try the Max version and have been extremely satisfied. There is absolutely no need to hardwire it because it runs on three AAA batteries that last over a year and can be replaced in under a minute. As far as technology upgrades over the Pro and Pro+, the Max adds a gyroscope in addition to the accelerometer. This enables one to observe continuous instant changes in level (side to side and front to back) with the trailer hitched and vehicle moving (called leveling on the go). This feature can be useful in finding the best spot to stop and unhitch when boondocking on uneven ground. Another feature is that it can remember the preferred tongue height when it is time to hitch up without having to back the vehicle up to the tongue first. Levelmate recommendz permanently mounting it with screws but I used 2 inch wide heavy duty velcro to mount it just inside the door under the rocker switch panel. No holes drilled.

I was told that it was a requirement of the RVIA. If you are at an RV show - look at that same area(s) and from what I've seen, all of these type panels are fastened in place. Bill

How wise you are. Been there and was suprised that my jack foot had taken a hike when I was not looking! Simple solution: Stainless Steel Cable (Really small) and a couple cable ferrules: Drill a hole in the jack foot and put a small loop and ferrule so it will not pull out of the jack foot. Another loop attached to the jack leg. Just enough room if you think small. In the event that the jack bolt leaves us, we should hear the tinkle tinkle of the foot being tortured by the pavement! Either way a spritz of black paint and a bolt and $35 saved. GJ

If you like gadgetry, then the hardwired LevelMate PRO PLUS is highly recomended! Unfortunately, a lot of us bought the LevelMate PRO that is not hardwired, it's powered by a short lived button battery. No worries though, it can be hardwired with a simple DIY upgrade: Hardwire your LevelMate for under a buck Talking about gadgets and leveling, I heard a reliable rumor that some old fool built a completely unnecessary AUTOMATIC LEVELING SYSTEM for the Oliver's stabilizers! 🤫

John stated this nicely. Our first time out, everything in the Attic was upside down! We had the hangers in the closet bounce off, clothes on the floor! A new suspension needs to seat and settle, period. Since our first outing, never another issue. But perhaps Chris, you left the lid on the salsa jar a bit loose last time... 🤣 Removing the 5th leaf... IMHO, good thing you left things as Alcan engineering had designed. They do not suggest the 4-leaf configuration and they know more than we do. I will say however, as an experienced auto mechanic and engineer, I have not followed all of their torque specs. Yes, you certainly need 90 ft-lbs for the U-bolts but I personally believe their specs on the wet bolts are too tight. They spec 80 on the end bolts and 65 on the centers. I went with 65 and 55 so that the suspension flows better up-n-down. The nuts are NyLok, so they're not coming off. Just my take and this does help. 😎 Cabinets opening? They are loose to begin with! OMG, such blasphemy? Did I again criticize OTT? Shame on me! Please forgive me for suggesting DIY improvements! 🤣 I rode inside our trailer once, Chris towing gently down a local paved road, before our Alcan upgrade, and EVERY overhead cabinet was rattling, even banging loudly. I added a 2" strip of foam tape on both resting pads of every cabinet and they snug nicely now and do not rattle anymore. Something like this works great and I promise you will NEVER have an upper cabinet open again! Welcome to the 200+ Alcan Oliver club and I commend you in doing this install yourself as only a very few of have done so! 😎 https://a.co/d/0b1cbrph

We sure do. Thats what makes life, and forums interesting

I have used my rear jacks to change a tire and make a slight leveling adjustment. I use the best leveling device made, a 2' level🤣. So when I went to check under the bed panels after taking delivery, I was shocked to find the panels were screwed in place. How anal is that? I was told that an attorney conducting an audit said secure the panels. I pulled them all.

Update to our situation: I found a good fiberglass tech here, someone who's worked on Corvettes for many years. He wants to determine whether this is just a gelcoat crack or if the underlying fiberglass is damaged as well. To that end, he wants to grind off the gelcoat and inspect the fiberglass beneath. If the underlying fiberglass is damaged he thinks we should take it back to Oliver to have the water heater removed and the fiberglass repaired. I did get a better picture of the back side of the cracked area.

A short (by comparison for once) summmary: I concur with the "To Each Their Own" concept. That using hind-sight is an unfair approach to just about anything. That OTT has and still makes a product we all are proud to have, use and keep. That over time our requirements and circumstances will change. We will all end up modify, donating or selling our Olivers. We each exhibit moments of brilliance, and moments we wish we would have avoided. This forum is vibrant because we understand the above for ourselves and others. God bless Scott Oliver, his family and the OTT TEAM they have built. And all the participants of this forum. John Russell

Thanks John for the feedback. That's what I was hoping would happen. It was sort of cool to see the black sealant squeezing out between the leafs when I did the final snug-up of U-Bolts. Just interesting.

"Overall, I did notice a HUGE difference with driving over bridged and not-so-perpendicular railroad tracks. The camper did not rock back and forth nearly as much as with the 3500 pound, ten year old, springs." We noticed that also and had some movement of items in the trailer in the first few hundred miles. All has settled in now and we like how it rides. John

I’m probably a minority here, but I like my bubble level. It’s used everytime we set up. Generally accurate although it does take adjusting every so often. I haven’t gone for some of the electronic/automatic upgrades (digital door lock, motorized black/gray tank gates, auto levelers, etc). I like simplicity. It’s instructive to remember how Oliver Travel Trailers began. Jim and John traveled around in their Casita(s) for their fiberglass businesses. When it came time to get a new Casita they decided they could make their own. They did, and sometime around 2007 the Elite I was born. They were not RV industry experts, just experienced RVers who used their fiberglass experience to create a new travel trailer. The mechanical parts (electricity, plumbing, etc) have evolved over time with the early trailers not being very standardized. When I look at the newer models compared to those built when ours was, they’ve come a long way and have continued to refine and make improvements. Those of us with 2015/16/17 trailers don’t have that benefit of lessons learned over the years but we still have a solid trailer. Our trailer is 10 years old, just over 110,000 miles and can/does pass for a new trailer (thanks CGI guys). All systems work fine and reliability over the last 6 or 7 years has been outstanding. Mike

I did a final torque of the U-bolts after 200 miles and the nuts only needed 1 to 3 quarter turns. I must say though, like others noted before me, I did have some minor.... "disruptions" (not damage) inside the trailer after that 200 miles - never seen before disruptions. I did have a rear upper cabinet door open for the first time ever, but at the same time, I noticed that the latch was free-floating on the panel and on all three rear panels. They were obviously lose before the trip, so they are snugged up now. Add that to the annual inspection list. Also for the first time ever, I had a bottle of salsa open up inside the fridge. No glass broken. So the bottom of the fridge must have been very bumpy to unscrew a lid. I will inspect plumbing area and electronics soonest. (updated: all good so far) Why do I mention this? Well, I'm thinking, and this is just me, so you do you, but I should have removed that lower/smallest 5th plate. Let's face it, that thicker steel is not going to break easily, especially with the second leaf being so extra long. But, oh well, I have 5-leafs now - all good. I'll just ensure things are buttoned up tighter. I can carry more alcohol and steaks now too. Overall, I did notice a HUGE difference with driving over bridges and not-so-perpendicular railroad tracks. The camper did not rock back and forth nearly as much as with the 3500 pound, ten year old, springs. 4-Leaf: 2250 x 4 = 9,000 lbs (just my recommendation after 200 miles - just things to consider - others here have only used 4-leafs) 5-leaf: 2750 x 4 = 11,000 lbs

Bill, Very accurate and well stated. Thanks for your thoughtful and respectful insight and most importantly your input! Without question based on our ownership and traveling across the country field experience Oliver is the best TT traveler on the market. As our good friend Rodney you to say -“Everything you need and nothing you don’t”. 👍🏻🇺🇸 - David

No one (certainly me) has said that "OTT has good reasons for all things they do!". As I would hope you already know, in manufacturing there are a myriad of factors that enter into virtually all aspects of even the smallest detail of any product. In my almost 11 years of dealing with OTT products and personnel I believe that they are truly concerned and connected with virtually every aspect and they seek to make our trailers better in every way that they can while still producing a product that meets all of the requirements necessary/desired for the broad segment they are trying to serve. Indeed, many of the "improvements" made to these trailers have been at the insistence of owners. In my personal opinion, some of these "improvements" have actually made the trailers less desirable to me. You have made this point before without consideration or concern for any segment of the market that chooses (for what ever reason) to not be "bothered" with yet another electronic device. I regret that it is "painful" for you to have to deal with those that (again) for whatever reason choose to not use a "LevelMate" or, perhaps, even cell phones. I'm truly glad for your delight in the ease and simplicity you seem to find in using these types of devices. I would certainly agree that they do have a place and time. But, ALWAYS and in ALL situations is a bit of a stretch. About 500 days ago the area where I live was badly hit with a "hurricane" that literally destroyed several towns and this area is still dealing with the issues caused. One of the things that simply didn't work during this storm was the cell phone network. Perhaps in the eyes of some (actually most if looking at the current stats regarding cell phone ownership - some 95% of adults in America own them) having a land line for phone service belongs in the "stone age". But, I'm sure glad that we still had/have ours when this happened. I've never felt the "need" for being perfectly level or perfectly comfortable, or virtually perfectly almost anything else since my days in the Army. Again, I'm sorry that "It gets me when...". I believe that people do with their money what they want (within the law of course). With cell phones to LevelMates, to Oliver's and beyond people can spend money as they choose. Yes, I do wonder sometimes about these choices that people make. Heck, I even question my own sanity from time to time but I sure don't let it bother me. I'm sorry too that you have had to spend "2 years making too many corrections and improvements!" to your Ollie. From reading most of your posts I believe that some of these "corrections and improvements" had to be made due to the neglect or mistreatment your trailer suffered from its previous owner(s). Others things that you have done, indeed, correct, improve or update original things done during manufacturing. Finally, I prefer to believe that much of our "100's of pages long" Mods section here on the Forum has more to do with improved technology, materials, design and related factors than it does with Oliver not having good reasons for doing what they did. As an example - I believe that you have basically rewired your entire Ollie (and nicely so too). You did this because you saw "problems" with the original wiring that (for good reason) caused you concern. And, since this original wiring was done during the original build your assumption is/was that Oliver was somehow "bad" for allowing the wiring to be completed in this manner. But, as with many things, there is more to the story than what one usually sees by only observing what they can immediately see. Back when your trailer was built, Oliver didn't have "in house" electricians. They knew how other RV's were wired but felt that if they hired certified electricians they would get the best wiring for an Oliver available. From the history I know, there were as many as three individual electricians (I'm sure that they knew each other given the small town/area around Hohenwald) that usually came into Oliver after normal working hours to wire our trailers. This is why not all trailers produced at that time were necessarily wired the same. After "problems" were being reported by owners, Oliver felt that they should have more control over how the trailers were being wired in order to reduce the number of "quality control" issues they were having. Once Oliver took this area "in house" they standardized the wiring for all trailers. This meant that all trailers would be wired with the same wiring harness and would, therefore, actually cost more in wire but less in installation as compared to hiring these "outside" certified electricians. These same type of issues were the reason for the switch from BlueSky to Zamp solar controllers even though Oliver was chastised for not having an MPPT controller, These same type of issues came up with the switch from 16 inch to 15 inch tires and with the orientation of the propane stove and with window blinds and with interior design choices and with ..... In my experience, Oliver has no comparison (not even close) to any other company in the world that I've ever been associated with or done business with. They have consistently done things for customers that are far and away beyond anything that might be considered necessary - regardless of warranties or any other related legal issue. If Oliver has a fault in this area I believe that it lies in the lack of marketing all of the things that they have done other than letting the final product speak for itself. Does this mean that I believe Oliver is perfect? NO! But the company and its product are the best thing on the market even at the price of $100,000. Bill

Hmmm… First off, don't fool yourself that OTT has good reasons for all the things they do! If they did, our Mods section would not be 100s of pages long! I've spent 2 years making too many corrections and improvements! 🤣 "Why not the the side jacks?" You can lift the front jack as high as you want and at least the rear wheels will stay on the ground. Not true side-to-side where at about 4" of lift both wheels on that side will be off the ground. No levelers, curb to streetside, might work on flatlands and campgrounds with asphalt pads, but will not work for those of us who camp on FS and BLM lands out West. The example below was our first trip in the Oliver (on Kendrick Peak AZ). Back then I only had the Legos for leveling which are a pain to stack under wheels, but good under jacks. And going without some kind of leveling blocks is just not safe. The Andersen levelers give us 4" lift and just takes 2 minutes to use. 😎 The other thing that is painful and inaccurate is fussing over a bubble-level when LevelMate technology is available. We get level as Chris places the Andersens and I'm still sitting in the driver's seat, reading the app while backing onto the levelers! It's that easy. Using a bubble level is analogous to still using a landline or a 90s-style flip-phone, when cellular technology is what it is today! Paper maps come to mind... It gets me when Oliver Owners worry about spending $100 on a viable accessory after spending near $100,000 on an Oliver, and maybe that much money again on a tow vehicle. $100 in Andersen levelers, and another $100 on a LevelMate adds up to 0.2% of total costs!

Yes - the reason is that if you choose to use the onboard jack OR "legos" or "Andersen" type ramps, some type of device that tells you when you are level will be necessary. Just because Oliver is recommending to NOT use the jacks (for leveling) does not negate the fact that you still need to level. Bill

One necessarily levels front to back with the tongue jack so why not for the side jacks? And, Oliver installs a bubble level in the basement right by the side jack switches. Is that bubble level there for a reason? Hmmm

Pro tip/field experience -make sure that when the techs do the install that they take extra care to make sure there are no kinks in condensation lines that connect the Truma to the OEM drain lines. I made sure to gently remind the installers of this and have never had any issues with our lines not kinked or draining. There were a few earlier installs that had this issue and eventually had to be corrected so it’s worthy of mention. It’s nice to use the OEM factory drain lines to keep water from draining onto the roof. It just makes for a nice clean OEM install and keeps your roof condensation free and ceramic coating or wax job looking great I can attest to the importance of no kink in the condensate lines. But with some minimal modification you really only need one to drain both cups.

Good work, Chris. I know you will be happy towing your next time out! 😂 I'm guessing you did this at Steve's since both Olivers are there. GREAT carport with concrete pad, I'm jealous! We have a 3/4 acre parcel, but I can't figure out a spot 25 ft off property lines for the city, that's easy to back into, and is level. I'll have to keep hiding our Oliver behind the Tuff Shed where it partially blocks the southern exposure. Yeah, now 200 Alcan-upgraded Olivers! Welcome to the club! 😎

Well, thanks to my buddy Steve, we had a good time putting on the new springs at a great location. He's paying me back for helping him put his springs on. Based off what Lew at Alcan said, this is around 200 Oliver's receiving the springs. Pretty good. Once the weather clears I'll do the first 50 mile ride, come back, and retorque the U-Bolt nuts again to 90 pounds. Oh, and between two of you (us), do not lose your 7/8 inch deep impact socket, and do not forget to pick one up before starting the job. LOL Or, driving to the store to get one will delay you. LOL Helpful tools and hints: The new Ryobi impact drill, grease gun, and 4x4 hydraulic jack were all amazing - made things easy. Best to also have two small bottle jacks, 2x" & 4x" wood for cribbing. Not to mention PB Blaster, or equivalent, for the old U-bolts nuts, and small wire brush to clean off those old U-bolt threads before attempting to remove the nuts. One nut got bound up and I had to use old muscles and extra leverage to get the nut off. (Fun times). LOL

Believe whatever you choose - I only wanted to clear up the definitions that were being tossed around along with the associated prices. Bill

Sorry, still not a believer. 😎 I do believe the quote Mark just received which seems realistic.

Here’s an improvised cover that anyone can make when out on the road….

Thanks Bill, Every picture tells a a story. 👍🏻😄 🇺🇸