New axles may not fit all older sub-frames

[Wayfinder]

Okay, here are more details on the new axles not able to be fit onto #110.

In the attached picture, my trailer's hangers are welded a bit too far inward on the sub-frame. The new axles do not have ANY "play" or "slop" in them for a fudge-factor. This is unlike the original axles. The frame hangers MUST be spot-on in regards to measurements. So, between the left and right hangers, there is not enough room. They needed 3/8" more to make them fit correctly.

Oh well, it saved me a bit of $$. They said my shocks are still good and they installed my self-provided EZ-Flex suspension parts for me.

The new windows and shades look awesome and the new batteries are working with more Amp Hours than I had with the crappy Interstate batteries.

Jason seemed to give me a "facial & verbal compliment" and said the trailer is still looking great. I think he was a bit surprised due to the age of the camper. Wait until CGI gets their hands on it tomorrow.

Oh, also, they are out of trailer covers and likely will not order them again, since not too many folks get them and .... some other reason, can't remember. He suggested I call Calmark Covers to see if they can still get me one. It will make the ceramic coating last longer. Mostly only cover it in winter and early spring.

Edited July 11 by Wayfinder

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Wayfinder said:

The frame hangers MUST be spot-on in regards to measurements

Any chance you can ask for the hard measurements? I’d like to measure mine to see. Thanks

[CRM]

Thanks for the details. I just looked at mine and the outside of the hangers are flush with the subframe so I assume I'll be OK if I ever need to change my axles.

There I go "assuming" things again.. 🤣

[Wayfinder]

9 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Any chance you can ask for the hard measurements? I’d like to measure mine to see. Thanks

I failed to get that measurement and I won't see them again. If those hangers are perfectly flush with the sub-frame, you have a good chance of them working. My hangers are not flush at all. 

Maybe the welder had a really good party the night before. LoL 

[jd1923]

It amazes me that since OTT created this defect, back when hull #110 was built, that they did not correct it now when you were in the shop. They should have cut out the old hangers, and welded new ones at their expense and then you could have paid for your desired axle upgrade. 

[Wayfinder]

@jd1923I asked Jason about that very thing, moving the hangers. He was not keen on that idea at all in fear it would not, or could not easily, be done well enough. I think it comes down to what's practical for all the man hours needed. 🤷‍♂️

[MAX Burner]

Bummer, for sure.  But you can still consider retro-fitting some heavier 5-pack springs for your running gear, IMO.

[mossemi]

On 7/12/2024 at 3:35 PM, jd1923 said:

It amazes me that since OTT created this defect, back when hull #110 was built

I’m not quite sure that OTT created any defect.  It seems to me that Chris's 2016 LE2 was built to the axle specifications used on his trailer and have been in service for about 8 years without any problems.

Mossey

[rideandfly]

Wayfinder,

Appears hangars on 2015 #75 LE2 are positioned inward similar to your hangars, if I understand you correctly.

We have original 5200 pound axles with original Dexter 5 leaf springs, no issues on 5200 axle springs yet, that I'm aware of:

Purchased a spare # PR5 five leaf 3000lb spring, 25 1/4" eye to eye & 1 3/4" wide," from Dexter off the shelf that matches the original if I need to replace one along with # SP01-060 U-Bolt kit for 3" axle. Installed bronze bushings after picking up at Dexter:

Edited July 16 by rideandfly

[Mountainman198]

1 hour ago, mossemi said:

I’m not quite sure that OTT created any defect.  It seems to me that Chris's 2016 LE2 was built to the axle specifications used on his trailer and have been in service for about 8 years without any problems.

Mossey

Without more specifics it is hard to prove for sure, but from what Chris has provided so far, I believe you are correct.

From what I can tell, the current standard for E2 axles is a Spring Center(SC) measurement of 50.50”. This is the measurement from the center of each of the centering holes located on the axle spring perches, across each axle (see my axle sticker below). I do not know of Oliver manufactures the steel suspension frame to which the spring/axle assemblies are then bolted to the aluminum frame or if this component is provided as part of a complete suspension package provided by Dexter which is bolted to the aluminum frame.  Regardless, it appears that there was a period of manufacturing where the axle SC measurement was less than 50.50”, necessitating that the spring hangers on the steel frame were moved inboard. Not a defect IMHO, rather a manufacturing change to meet the narrowed spring perches being provided on the axles at that time 

Couple of questions I have:

1) how many trailers were manufactured with these narrower spring perch mounts?

2) since the steel suspension frames are bolted to the aluminum frames, is it possible for those impacted hull#s to have the narrower steel suspension frame replaced with one with a SC of 50.50”, thereby allowing newer axles to be fitted?

For those interested, HF (hub face) measurement of 68.75” (as shown on the sticker) is the outside to outside width of the axle, as measured by the outside of one hub, across the axle, to the outside of the hub on the other side.  I believe that this should remain unchanged for all E2 trailers built.

 

Edited July 16 by Mountainman198

[Wayfinder]

I just opened a ticket for Jason.  Maybe he'll have those exact hanger measurements needs for the axles.  I sent them a pic of one of my hangers, if they need to mark it up on the pic.

If nothing else, maybe we can save his team's time by not entertaining the idea if the hangers don't meet what the new axles expect.  New tech, old tech - they don't usually play nice together.

Like mentioned above, it's not a defect.  It's just the way things were done "back in the day" and now we all expect to have the shiny new "gear" on our old rigs.  It's just not usually practical in the real world.  LOL. This is why we constantly need to upgrade our computers. Dang it. Difficult to plan for the future widgets not yet on the market.

Here's is pic of my driver's side hanger.  We specifically talked about the position of this one. 

[CRM]

An important question for anyone who has the narrower spacing shackles- are there any new model Dexter axles that will fit that spacing if their axles ever need replacing? 

[Mountainman198]

1 hour ago, CRM said:

An important question for anyone who has the narrower spacing shackles- are there any new model Dexter axles that will fit that spacing if their axles ever need replacing? 

My theory of what happened may or may not be correct. We will have to wait for Chris to let us know what Oliver Service says and/or what his axle sticker says (if it is still there)
 

 

[rideandfly]

If the axle label is missing, Dexter engraves the axle serial number on each axle. I gave Dexter the serial number off of one of Ollie's axles a few years ago and Dexter emailed this axle spec sheet back to me. With this information a Dexter dealer should be able to supply an axle built to original specifications.

At the end of this informative video, Dexter mentions engraving the serial number on each axle in case the label is missing.

 

Edited July 17 by rideandfly

[jd1923]

This truly upsets me for Chris, and it makes me doubly mad since it appears mine are the same way (now hulls 75, 110, 113 and others?). One mine, it's recessed 1/4 to 3/8" on the outside and I can feel the weld sticking out a good 1/8" on the backside! Neither picture above, @rideandfly nor @Wayfinder shows the inside weld past the steel frame. If ALL hulls from 75 to 113 had this as the specs, then it is NOT a defect. But if some are and some are not, then certainly a defect. I'll get a better picture, but these three pictures look completely different in many ways.

Trailer manufactures do not set specs for mounting distance of axles, in this case Dexter does. Were different axles used? Did Dexter change the spec?

As @Mountainman198 nicely stated, "have the narrower steel suspension frame replaced with one with a SC of 50.50”, thereby allowing newer axles to be fitted." If you're replacing axles anyway, this would be another hour of labor to bolt on new steel frames, not a manhour concern. However, today like everything else, these steel frames are another considerable expense added to an axle upgrade.

If I was to do this on our hull, I would determine the required length spec, take measurements, remove the steel frames and have a local welder replace the hangers. Or simply hold on to and service the original equipment as Chris has done.

Edited July 17 by jd1923
Added last sentence

[rideandfly]

John,

Our # 75 LE2 received 5200lb axles with 5 leaf springs (originally for a Legacy Elite) because Oliver ran out of 3500lb axles with 4 leaf springs during manufacture of our Ollie. The 5200lb axles have larger drum brakes, too.  We are not the original owners, but learned this information on this forum. Off the shelf Dexter axle/brake/spring parts are available for our Ollie and I have always liked the fact they put higher capacity axles on our Ollie during manufacture. I would be happy to take more bracket photos, measurements and compare with your photos/measurements, if needed.

Here's our center hangar:

Edited July 17 by rideandfly

[MAX Burner]

Just as an interrogative comment and question on the subject:

New OTT owners may still have spring issues with 2024 model year and forward rigs even though the new OEM axles are D52s.  When we replaced our axles last May at Hohenwald, I noticed that our D52s were configured from Dexter with 1,750# 4-pack leaf springs.  Since we had already installed Alcan 5-packs a few weeks prior, the OEM Dexter 4-packs were not used and stayed in TN after our D52/Alcan installation.  

@rideandfly - Bill, y'all seem fortunate to have your #75 rig come with the LE configuration running gear (D52s plus Dexter 5-packs)...  It's my understanding that there has yet to be a reported any 5-pack spring failures.

My question is, why doesn't the factory order the same axle set configuration for both the LE and LE2?  Wouldn't this simplify supply from Dexter, inventory stocking, removing possible installation errors (as with 5k#/7.5k# Bulldog couplers), and ultimately do away with the 1,750# 4-packs which have a history of failing?

 

[rideandfly]

1 hour ago, MAX Burner said:

 

@rideandfly - Bill, y'all seem fortunate to have your #75 rig come with the LE configuration running gear (D52s plus Dexter 5-packs)...  It's my understanding that there has yet to be a reported any 5-pack spring failures.

My question is, why doesn't the factory order the same axle set configuration for both the LE and LE2?  Wouldn't this simplify supply from Dexter, inventory stocking, removing possible installation errors (as with 5k#/7.5k# Bulldog couplers), and ultimately do away with the 1,750# 4-packs which have a history of failing?

 

Art,

Understand there has not been any Dexter 5 leaf spring failures, yet. 🙂 Feel fortunate that Oliver installed the 5200lb axles and 5 leaf springs on our 2015 LE2 # 75.

We used to support a fleet of industrial mobile machines (before retirement) equipped with hydraulic, pneumatic, electrical, mechanical, and electronic equipment. We supported the field technicians trying to make life easier for them with parts stocked and durability.  We standardized hydraulic pumps used as much as possible and air compressor/hydraulic motors so folks in the field and rebuild shop would needed less parts that worked on more machine applications, point is well taken on standardizing parts when possible. 👍

 

Edited July 17 by rideandfly

[rideandfly]

Our original Dexter 5200lb axles built in 2014 installed by Oliver have HF (hub face) 68.75" and SC (spring center) 50.0".  There is a difference, SC 50.0" older Dexter axle on our LE2 and SC 50.5" newer Dexter 5200lb axles on LE2s,  overall difference of 1/2" or 1/4" per side. Our axles were originally for an LE1, but Oliver ran out of 3500lb axles and installed LE1 5200lb axles instead, as mentioned previously.

See shop order notes below:

Edited July 21 by rideandfly

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, rideandfly said:

There is a difference, SC 50.0" older Dexter axle on our LE2 and SC 50.5" newer Dexter 5200lb axles on LE2s...

Thanks Bill, this makes it clear. Not a defect, but a change in specs over time.

I had it on my to-do list to measure but instead realized with your note and the picture @Mountainman198 posted that I had taken a pic last year. As you can see, ours is the 50" axle as well.

You have the 5200 LB axle 50". So, do we know that these are no longer available, or just not stocked by OTT? I would like the 12" brakes eventually. Licky for you, they ran out of the 3500s!

[CRM]

My 2010 measures out at 50.5". Maybe they changed the specs after the shutdown and now have changed them back again?

[rideandfly]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

 

You have the 5200 LB axle 50". So, do we know that these are no longer available, or just not stocked by OTT?

 

Going to call Dexter tomorrow to see if the 5200lb is available with our HF (hub face) 68.75" and SC (spring center) 50.0" specs off the shelf or if ordered how long of a lead time is needed.  Will see.

[Wayfinder]

Mike from OTT replied to my ticket about getting specific measurements when they can. More to come. 

[rideandfly]

Just spoke to Dexter to learn axle assembly availability for two (2015 & 2016) LE2 Ollies.

If I ordered today an exact replacement 5200 pound axle assembly with hubs, brakes (no springs) for our 2015 Oliver #75 LE2, axle serial number 211277561, it would be a special order with lead time of 3 to 3 1/2 weeks for $795 retail.

If John (jd1923) ordered an exact replacement 3500 pound axle for his 2016 Oliver #113 LE2, axle serial number 211298115, it would be a special order with lead time of 3 to 3 1/2 weeks for $561 retail. I do not have a copy of John's axle serial number build sheet to know what parts are included.

Edited July 22 by rideandfly

[jd1923]

6 minutes ago, rideandfly said:

If I ordered today an exact replacement 5200 pound axle assembly with hubs, brakes (no springs) for our 2015 Oliver #75 LE2, axle serial number 211277561, it would be a special order with lead time of 3 to 3 1/2 weeks for $795 retail.

Bill, please confirm if I'm understanding you correctly. These are 50" axles and if I was to order two of these for $1,590, likely plus tax and shipping, they would fit mine and be full axle assemblies, complete with 12" brakes & drums, new style bearings. This order and a set of Alcan springs and I'd be set for a 10K GTWR upgrade. Let me know and thanks for taking the time to call Dexter.

For me this kind of upgrade is next year earliest. Batteries and inverter now, A/C next and thank goodness my OEM springs are nicely arced at all ends and the 10" brakes do the basic job.