Victron Multiplus and MPII Feedback Request

[jd1923]

In what I've read so far, at least @Overland and @Ty J, and more recently @rideadeuce have upgraded to the Victron 3KVA Multiplus or MPII. Maybe others?

If I remember correctly, Overland installed the original Multiplus and others went with MPII. Does the Multiplus II truly have necessary features. I read 1 amp less draw on stand-by, thinner (but not actually smaller), anything else? I see just fitting the Multiplus in my current Xantrex location (rear dinette seat), where the MPII would certainly be too long.

I'd like to avoid adding extra 12V cable length installing it under the bed area or front dinette seat, though there is nothing but room up front and I haven't yet moved that bed since I've been working on the other side. Overland worked a novel installation! He also stated (cannot find the quote today), something like you could keep the batteries in the battery bay or install the inverter there (he wrote it better). Wow, thank you, that got me thinking!

Overland also commented the Multiplus was not noisy except when supplying a large AC load or upon shore power connection/bulk charging. It is quiet enough under the dinette seat when just using small AC appliances like when watching TV? Is the MPII truly more efficient? Could it be quieter?

I just purchased two 300AH Epoch batteries and I cannot believe FedEx tracking says they will be here on Tuesday. It only makes sense to work these installs together.

 

[rich.dev]

Just waiting for the Xantrex 3000 in our 2023 to kick the bucket when I will definitely upgrade to the Victron multiplus II, mainly for the power assist/load sharing functionality of it….explained nicely in this video.

 

[SeaDawg]

17 minutes ago, rich.dev said:

Just waiting for the Xantrex 3000 in our 2023 to kick the bucket when I will definitely upgrade to the Victron multiplus II, mainly for the power assist/load sharing functionality of it….explained nicely in this video.

 

We rarely replace working equipment,  also. 

[jd1923]

@rich.dev has the 3KW Xantrex. I hope your model has built-in ATS.

I'm replacing for sure and will purchase next week now that our batteries are on the way. My criteria for replacing is the 2KW inverter is first that it's borderline on running the A/C for any period of time in HOT conditions. Also, I've never purchased an inverter without built-in ATS, can't have the goofy 15A outlets. Those are for those that cannot wire an AC outlet, just plug in the blow dryer right into the inverter! 🤣

My inverter must have built-in ATS with hardwired 120V AC IN and OUT terminals (I also want to know if the Victron Multiplus fails, is the fail-safe condition is that it still allows pass-thru shore power AC). So, back to the questions posed above...

[katanapilot]

Following.

Our Victron MPII just arrived, along with all of the other Victron equipment.  Install to commence next week.

Like others, the power assist mode was the primary driver.  I found when running on generator power (dual Honda EU2200i) paralleled and in ECO mode, the generators could not start our Houghton heat pump.  So I had to run them with ECO mode off all the time.  I'm hoping that with power assist from the Victron, I can run the Honda's in ECO mode and still start the Houghton.  Considered adding soft start too, but will wait and see if the power assist works as advertised.

[Ronbrink]

10 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Also, I've never purchased an inverter without built-in ATS

From viewing the above video, the Victron Quattro is the only inverter said to have a built-in ATS. Just passing on what I heard, however should be verified. 

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

From viewing the above video, the Victron Quattro is the only inverter said to have a built-in ATS. Just passing on what I heard, however should be verified. 

From the Mulitplus manual:
"Automatic and uninterruptible switching
In the event of a supply failure or when the generating set is switched off, the MultiPlus will switch over to inverter operation and take over the supply of the connected devices. This is done so quickly that operation of computers and other electronic devices is not disturbed (Uninterruptible Power Supply or UPS functionality). This makes the MultiPlus highly suitable as an emergency power system in industrial and telecommunication applications."

The ability for the inverter to choose between an AC source or DC battery power is what I meant by internal ATS and ALL Victron 3KW inverter/chargers (and greater models) have this functionality. They all also have Power Assist, which is not only internal switching but smart partial switching when shore power is lacking in covering the full load, it pulls what's necessary from the battery bank. 

Another way to word this is these more capable inverters do not require an external switch, like the Xantrex PROwatt SW (see pic1) or the KISAE TS20 that some of us have added to switch the air conditioning between AC/DC.

The common usage of the term ATS in a RV is the switching between generator and shore power, like the PD5100 (see pic2) installed in our Olivers. The Quattro can switch AC/DC uninterruptable as the Multiplus and ALSO has the capability to switch between 2 AC sources like the PD5100, hence the PD could be eliminated if installing a Quattro. I thought about this for about a second, but it's more expensive and I'm not running a generator anyway with a 3KW inverter and 600AH in new LiFePO4 batteries. I had a PD5100 fry in our Bigfoot RV that I replaced, but if it does so in the Oliver with this upgrade we'll just run on the inverter.

It's funny in the video, he used the name Multiplus all through the video and in his last sentence he said "Quattro."

The 3KW Multiplus, MPII, Quattro, and other high-end models, all have a 50A line1 output. In my hull the Xantrex PROwatt SW is wired to all AC circuits but the air conditioner. The purpose of the KISAE TS20 is to add another ATS for the air. When the Multiplus is installed, given 50A output for a 30A panel, it will be wired to all loads on the panel, including the air conditioner, and no need for external switches like the Xantrex PROwatt SW and KISEA TS20! Why not?

[Ronbrink]

I’m glad I part my hair down the middle!

[rich.dev]

16 hours ago, jd1923 said:

has the 3KW Xantrex. I hope your model has built-in ATS.

What is automatic AC transfer switching?

All Xantrex Inverter/Chargers incorporate an automatic transfer switch. This switch senses when outside AC Power is present and transfers the load from the inverter to the source of incoming power (shore or generator). The unit also automatically switches from invert mode to charge mode.

[jd1923]

29 minutes ago, rich.dev said:

All Xantrex Inverter/Chargers incorporate an automatic transfer switch...

That's a good way of wording it. My 2WK Xantrex is inverter only (no charger and no ATS). All it does is supply 120V AC to two plug-in outlets. The switching in this system occurs in the PROwatt SW, an external switch.

[SeaDawg]

https://www.currentconnected.com/product/victron-48v-multiplus-2-5kva-120v-inverter-70a-charger/

 

[jd1923]

12 hours ago, katanapilot said:

Our Victron MPII just arrived, along with all of the other Victron equipment.  Install to commence next week.

Why MPII vs. original Multiplus? What other Victron HW? Thanks

[rideadeuce]

13 hours ago, katanapilot said:

Following.

Our Victron MPII just arrived, along with all of the other Victron equipment.  Install to commence next week.

Like others, the power assist mode was the primary driver.  I found when running on generator power (dual Honda EU2200i) paralleled and in ECO mode, the generators could not start our Houghton heat pump.  So I had to run them with ECO mode off all the time.  I'm hoping that with power assist from the Victron, I can run the Honda's in ECO mode and still start the Houghton.  Considered adding soft start too, but will wait and see if the power assist works as advertised.

I would install the SoftStart. It will make everything run smoother and more efficiently, even if MP2 can run AC without it. 

"From the Dometic Penguin II label. Compressor surge rating of 52a, higher than the Atmos, which is 48a. The Dometic 52a translates to 6240w and 480a at 13vdc. A Xantrex Freedom XC Pro 3000w Inverter has a surge rating of 6000w. The MP2 has a surge rating of 5500 watts. So, no RV air conditioner above 13k BTU should be run from Inverters and Lithium batteries without a soft start added. The Truma Aventa has an even higher surge rate of 58a."

From Sprinter van forum that is very informative on this topic. Even if you have a 11k BTU of lower surge rating, it still makes sense to install SoftStart. The people installing the Atmos for me recommended it as well. 

Power assist as I understand it and used so far is helpful when connected to shore power not boon docking or traveling. 

Best,

Mike

[rideadeuce]

36 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

Why MPII vs. original Multiplus? What other Victron HW? Thanks

The MultiPlus-II combines the functions of the MultiPlus and the MultiGrid. It has all the features of the MultiPlus, plus an external current transformer option to implement PowerControl and PowerAssist and to optimize self-consumption with external current sensing (max. 32A). - Victron

The MultiPlus-II is a newer model; it is also a single inverter/charger unit, but it has some improvements over the original MultiPlus. It has a more powerful microprocessor, which allows it to provide more accurate and precise control over the charging process. - Victron

MP-II form factor is longer and slimmer. So, depending on install may be easier to mount. 

Idle power draw is less for the MP2 11w vs 25w for the original. 

Having installed it, in retrospect, I might look at using Victron Lynx power distribution instead of DIY bus bars. A lot to think about. 

Best, 

Mike

 

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, rideadeuce said:

Power assist as I understand it and used so far is helpful when connected to shore power not boon docking or traveling.

Given the PD5100 ATS, the MP inverter would treat a small generator as a form of under-powered shore power and the Power Assist would kick in, adding required power.

But yes, adding the SoftStart lowers the initial surge to allow running on a household 15A circuit without tripping a breaker.

The extra features of the MP2, I will likely not use. It is the dimensions and +1AH more on idle is 24AH per day. Still what fits best will make the decision.

Next week I will open all street-side basement panels, measure, plan, decide and purchase.

Given the MP2 is better, why can I buy one for $997 and the MP is $1,169, from authorized dealers. Another point for the MP2!

[SeaDawg]

You may want to call Victron or Victron rep and have a chat.

They're both great units.

Same warranty.

Some many discussions on victron forum

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/63741/difference-between-multiplus-and-multiplus-ii.html

[rideadeuce]

19 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Given the PD5100 ATS, the MP inverter would treat a small generator as a form of under-powered shore power and the Power Assist would kick in, adding required power.

I have already forgotten about using the generator traveling down the road and the usefulness of the power assist probably because I used a Yamaha propane generator that ran the PII without difficulty with a soft start. Since converting to lithium I have forgotten about it already. I was thinking from a lithium powered standpoint. It would be useful for an owner trying to use a smaller generator. 

[Ronbrink]

On 7/13/2024 at 7:24 PM, rideadeuce said:

From Sprinter van forum that is very informative on this topic.

There is a new post and a video in said forum of interest; in short, more corrections to misinformation. Anyone considering a Gree  (Eco Cool/Atmos 4.4) product should take time to read/watch the very pertinent information and discussions provided therein. I have learned nothing that would change my mind about purchasing an Atmos 4.4, looking forward to my pending delivery and details on your install. 

[MAX Burner]

On 7/13/2024 at 6:38 PM, rideadeuce said:

I might look at using Victron Lynx power distribution instead of DIY bus bars.

We're definitely considering the Lynx PD unit as well for when we drop the hammer on upgrading to the MPII - its a very clean option as compared to our Blue Seas bus bar, IMO.

[jd1923]

Santa came today, Christmas in July! Never received such beautiful batteries 600AH total. They came just before I started teaching my class today, got the FedEx guy to get them in my garage. On a break, I had to open one! Measures 13.12V in the box. Got to buy my new inverter ASAP. Love it!

[jd1923]

Just decided on the MP2 for the sole reason is its dimensions. Wow, the 2x120V version is amazing for those with 50A RV systems but we only need a single 120VAC input and output. There are grid capabilities in the MP2 for home use that doesn't matter for RV usage.

The original MP is actually smaller in volume, 2 LBS lighter, but the 8.6" depth vs. 6" is the real difference. Also, the MP has an aluminum casing vs. thin steel which may be better in some climates.

Under the streetside bed as Mike @rideadeuce installed will be my choice too. I will figure out a footing and strapping for the MP2 without the heavy HDPE and epoxy. The MP2 is 23" long, almost 9" longer but there is a lot of length under the bed. I just added the Beech Lane dual fan for fridge cooling and if needed this would be a great addition to add it the wall to the rear going to the trunk area.

I did not hear from any of the 3 or more Oliver owners with in an installed Multiplus re inverter or fan noise. Sure hope it is not noisy as it will be under my bed!

Hoping the MP2 has dual battery terminals. It looks like Mikes does in the pics. I see pics from Victron, some show single screw terminal and most show a built-in terminal/bus with dual screw terminals. I have no interest in Victron Lynx buses or any additional bus for that matter. The Oliver already has DC buses installed. One terminal on the MP2 will of course connect directly to the batteries and I will use the second terminal to run 12VDC to the Oliver buses. There will only be the 4/0 cables in the battery bay.

Still working on best price and will place an order Monday latest. I'm getting the Victron VE.Bus Smart dongle to program the MP2 and read status via the Victron app. This would be in place of any wall-mounted display accessories. I read I may also need a Victron Current Transformer for the Power Assist to work effectively. These are relatively inexpensive parts.

Yesterday, I removed the lead-acid batteries. Today I'm pulling the 2KW Xantrex inverter, the Xantrex ATS and junction box. This is a complete OTT installed working system if anybody needs one. Put the LA batteries on Craigs, who knows. Will oen up the EMS and the 120V AC panel to ready the wiring. Building the MP2 platform will take some thinking! 😂

[rideadeuce]

This mount was easy to make and has been rock solid. I glued down a thin heavy duty rubber mat and once epoxy was applied to HDPE put the assembly in place and pushed down onto the mat with HDPE push against the inner basement wall for a minute or two to try and absorb any vibration and prevent rattling.  Seems to have worked. Low hum when charging mostly, no rattles. The mount has to be heavy duty... the MP2 weighs almost 50 lbs.

And yes, a temperature actuated exhaust fan would be great. You can program it through a Victron system pretty easily. On my list...

[Ronbrink]

13 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I will figure out a footing and strapping for the MP2 without the heavy HDPE and epoxy.

When the time comes, I too will remove the stock mounting board and fashion an aluminum footing similar to the one made to support the Hughes Autoformer recently installed. 4”x4”x1/4” L-shaped aluminum should suffice; only difference, weld rather than heat bend this thicker metal. 

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

When the time comes, I too will remove the stock mounting board and fashion an aluminum footing similar to the one made to support the Hughes Autoformer recently installed. 4”x4”x1/4” L-shaped aluminum should suffice; only difference, weld rather than heat bend this thicker metal.

Mine will not be as pretty as Ron's. I'm thinking something like this item as a base and other stock brackets you can get at Lowes or the Depot. Two straps to hold it against the wall with a piece of foam behind the inverter to keep noise an vibration muffled. Two bolts just under the bed lip to hold it all tight. 4 x 4 Post Base 2PCS,Inner Size 3.6"x3.6"Deck Post Base,Heavy Duty Metal Black Powder Coated Post Brackets,for Mailbox Post Deck Supports Porch Railing Post Holders - Amazon.com

[jd1923]

I want to thank all that provided good feedback here! Always helpful. Want to show you my first step with a platform for the Victron Multiplus-II (see pics). More on this in a couple of weeks as I will start a new build thread.

I'm waiting on the MP2. The Florida company Inverter Supply must receive shipment from the manufacturer and then ship to me. Thought I would get it this week, but it will be another week. I'm getting installation parts here and there.

Love how this first step turned out. I had to put a steel cutting blade in my power miter saw. One mounting ear had to be cut back to slip it under and the two mounting brackets had to be cut to fit side-by-side. This base will hold the weight of the MP2 and I will build a 6x24" platform above it. It will just sit on the floor since I will not drill into the bottom/outer hull. The MP2 will also be strapped above. Much more later in mod post! 😂