Wheels, model, warranty, care

[topgun2]

WOW!  I'll bet THAT caught your attention!

 

Glad to hear that everyone was OK with the possible exception of nerves.  Can you tell us how the Oliver performed given the circumstance - did it sway, did it lurch, did it bounce, did it etc.?  How far did you have to tow it after the wheels came off?  Did any "parts" hit the pavement other than the hubs?  How fast were you traveling?  Did anyone stop to help you?  ETC., etc.

 

Bill

 

p.s.  Where are you?  Do you need help?  There just might be another Oliver Owner nearby that could offer assistance.

[Overland]

Very odd indeed. I’m a bit fuzzy on where the failure points were. Is it that the front wheel lugs sheared off and the rear wheel pulled the lugs out of the hub - so the wheel itself didn’t fail?  (I imagine they took a beating regardless.)

 

Wondering if the lugs had been overtorqued at some point by an overzealous mechanic.  I think I’d want to replace them on the other side just to be sure.  Of course the opposite could be true as well - if they hadn’t been tightened properly that would continually stress the lugs, and the pothole just finished the job.

 

Also, what tire pressure do you run? A high pressure wouldn’t allow for much force to be absorbed by the tires.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vector - Lanham]

thanks. I'm not very confident in Chinese Products adhering to ANSI standards....prefer American, German or Japanese.  Thanks, I'll be posting pictures later..it's raining (the one recovered wheel is in the truck, and my back is a little sore...probably from golf..) I just hope it get it fixed in the next week.  What are the wheel sizes, anyone know?

[Vector - Lanham]

1, Well, i feel a different pressure in the back, immediately look at my Left Trailer mirrior,..i see the trailer is leaning weirdly left...i assumed a blowout. 2. I use my mirrors and my camera to look for anyone near my rig, I see I have a room to maneuver. i calmly and a low angle bring hit the brakes, but not stomp them and bring it to the right shoulder...i made a an effort to get the right tires on the right edge of the shoulder...there wasn't a lot of extra space. and turns out there was steep 10 foot drop off right off the shoulder that I couldn't see in the dark.. no moon and overcast it was very dark. The frame under the bumper ( i'm hoping just some bolts) might have absorbed the friction...but it was dark w/ semis. The hubs were rolling, ...i don't know if i'll need just new hubs of the axle was affected.  I would say big props to the frame and the bull dog hitch..it stayed on very nicely.  The bulldog hitch is a great element of the OTT.

 

BTW, another benefit of steel wheels, which are heavier, is that they bring the center of gravity lower, and thus, make the rig more stable..i'm not seeing any reasons to not switch to steel.

 

Addendum: I was cruising the speed limit, getting passed a lot. I'm very safety-oriented driver, but somethings are out of your control. The aluminum wheel is textbook broken, cracked and tore...which frankly, isn't impressive. I'm 95% sure that I will replace them with steel, assuming the frame is not-cracked or compromised. I assume others hit that pothole, but I didn't see anyone else lose a wheel. I am weirdly physically sore from the ordeal, adrenal rush i guess. I will say, that if this happens, focus on getting the rig to the far right shoulder as calmly as possible. I was actually holding a bottle of water to take a swig, and didn't realize until hours later that i had dropped it immediately to focus on pulling the trailer over. And hit the hazard lights. Know where your hazard light button is. Oh yeah, and a shout-out to the Missouri Highway Patrol..they were really terrific. I am grateful for their courteous and professional assistance. The tow-truck guy did a great job also (a recommend from a friend) and minimized (from what I could tell in the pitch black/flashlight light).

[KountryKamper]

After riding on the hubs and the stress on the axles and suspension from this whole ordeal I'm not sure I would want to fix what you have except Maybe temporarily and get it back to the factory. I would want the axles replaced at a minimum and have them go over everything else.

[Vector - Lanham]

Very odd indeed. I’m a bit fuzzy on where the failure points were. Is it that the front wheel lugs sheared off and the rear wheel pulled the lugs out of the hub – so the wheel itself didn’t fail?  (I imagine they took a beating regardless.) Yes, the front ones were sheered off and the rear wheel pulled off the lugs, but the lugs were still there..which was odd.  Rear wheel lugs were in place, whereas the front ones were completely scalped off the hub.

 

Wondering if the lugs had been overtorqued at some point by an overzealous mechanic. A mechanic friend of mine said that is typically what happens when they sheer off, they've been overtorqued.  I'd just had the EZ Flex installed in Hohenwald the previous day.  I think I’d want to replace them on the other side just to be sure.  Of course the opposite could be true as well – if they hadn’t been tightened properly that would continually stress the lugs, and the pothole just finished the job.I don't know if the axle was bent, if   it was I'll replace all of it.  I'll have to look at it, but I always prefer to over-engineer..i'd rather pay now then pay later...frankly, that's one of the reasons (seemingly ironic at this point in time) that I bought the Oliver. Let me be clear, sometimes stuff happens, and I really like the OTT folks and products..but it is an unfortunate event. 

 

Also, what tire pressure do you run? A high pressure wouldn’t allow for much force to be absorbed by the tires.  I run a on the lower end of the range for that reason. I asked the shop guys if they had checked the pressure before  I left, but I didn't.  Of course, that is something I'm wondering about.  Maybe i'll get those constant tire pressure monitors on the next set.

[Vector - Lanham]

Thanks for the offer, I was about 2 hours from my house on the way home from Hohenwald.  Got the trailer to a good yard, I talk to GEICO Monday, have to meet an appraiser..i did see some fiberglass near the wheel-well get shredded, don't know how easy that will be to fix since it was an edge piece (chime in if you have an opinion) that piece was about 1/2 the size of my hand, give or take.

[Raspy]

Wow.  Sounds like you handled the situation perfectly.  PM me if I can help.  We could bring you some parts, if nothing else.

 

I'm not sure what wheels you have, but my Oliver had very weak wheels and I broke one.  So I upgraded to aluminum star wheels with a 3200 lb rating.  Your idea of steel sounds good.  They will bend and not break.

 

As far as axles go, if you change yours, get the 5200 lb axles that Oliver used for a short time. They are much stronger than the 3500 lb axles and the brakes are bigger.  In your case, riding on a 12" drum, instead of a 10" drum, might have made a difference. Plus the brakes are stronger and will last longer.

 

Keep us updated and good luck.

[Overland]

We have the 5200 axles and larger brakes and the only thing I’d caution is that we’ve had trouble with the brakes locking.  No idea if that’s from the larger brakes or from some other element (we have electric over hydraulic discs) but it’s worth giving at least some thought.

[Raspy]

Good point about over pressured tires being not able to absorb impacts.   Check the pressures in the two other side tires and see what they are, just for reference.  We have been talking about tire pressure lately and this may be a good example of why not to run the tires at full pressure.

 

It seems I remember that the tires came to Oliver with 80 PSI and it seems a lot of folks like to run their tires at the max pressure.  Not me.   It could be that they all leave Oliver with 80 PSI.

[Raspy]

We have the 5200 axles and larger brakes and the only thing I’d caution is that we’ve had trouble with the brakes locking. No idea if that’s from the larger brakes or from some other element (we have electric over hydraulic discs) but it’s worth giving at least some thought.

 

I've had two sets of 5200 lb tandem axles on other trailers and they worked flawlessly. Both with the standard drum brakes. It's my favorite axle size.  Also, I think Oliver uses a single 5200 lb axle on the Elite.

 

I would upgrade without hesitation if I ever had a problem with the 3500 lb axles.  In fact, I was disappointed I didn't get them from the factory.  As I understand it, Oliver had a problem in the supply chain with the 3500 lb axles and the warrantee for them, so they temporarily switched to the 5200 lb model. They even advertised the brake upsize improvement in some of their literature.  But then they went back to the 3500 lb Dexters.

 

Some lucky folks got their trailers during all of that and got the 5200 axles.

[Overland]

Yeah I suspect our problem is really with the E/H actuator, but I thought I’d mention it just in case.

[STEVEnBETTY]

Vector, really sorry to hear about your ordeal, just going by your description, it sounds like you may have lost one wheel prior to the other one failing. The studs on the hub, can and do fail from over or under torque, on a tandem wheel it’s usually under torque. If the wheel itself didn’t physically fail, my guess would be that one wheel ( the one with the sheared off studs) was overtightened and the studs sheared off, the other one was under tightened and the lug nuts came off. You can go a long way without realizing that one wheel came off, the axle side without the wheel drops down but doesn’t hit the ground and you can actually drive it like that if you chain it back up to it’s original position.  I would for sure get Oliver involved, our suspension parts are pretty robust and don’t usually fail for no reason.

 

Good luck, Steve

[Overland]

That’s a really good point. Would explain the missing wheel and also the failure of the other one.

[bugeyedriver]

Wow, Vector!  Glad you are OK after your pothole experience.  Like STEVEnBETTY says, one may have departed first and the second couldn't manage the additional stresses.  I watched a friend with a large tandem axle stickbuilt unit hit the mother-of-all-potholes in Canada last year.  He had no idea a wheel  departed until I called him on the radio to inform him.  His wheels were steel, part of the hub was completely sheared away.

 

Perhaps a TPMS sudden loss of signal would have alerted him of the departure if I had not been following behind.

 

When an aluminum wheel is mounted onto a trailer, it's recommended the torque gets rechecked soon, usually about 50 miles or so because  steel and aluminum components expand and contract differently to heating and cooling. After the wheels and hubs have gone through a couple heat/cool cycles, rechecking torque may help correct a loosened  condition, if one occurred.  (It will not find an over torque situation) How far from Hohenwald were you? Did you retorque the lug nuts?

 

It's good to hear how docile the trailer was as you smoothly pulled off the road.  Keep us updated on how all of your repairs go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raspy]

Pete,

 

Mother-of-all-potholes.  LOL!

 

Yes, re-torquing is a very important step after a few miles.  Good point.  Torquing lug nuts could be a whole thread with lots of input from all.

 

I'm thinking Vector's incident will be discussed for a long time.  Possibly too much tire pressure, poor torquing practices, weak wheels, etc.  It's a situation like this that will push Oliver to be less casual about all of that and set some new guidelines.  At least we are running LT tires!  They are tolerant of running lower than max pressure, and indeed should be run at less than the maximum.

[RnA]

When lug nuts are torqued the aluminum creeps under compression of the lug nut.  This lowers the torque on the lug nut.  Thus the requirement to re-torque a couple of times after an aluminum wheel is reinstalled.

 

I have had multiple instances of both under and over torque on the lug nuts of my cars and trucks.  The most recent being last summer when I had my Tundra checked and serviced at the Toyota dealer before heading to TN for my Ollie.  About 100 miles into the trip the front end started shimmying real bad.  About 1/2 of the lug nuts were loose.  Some were not even on finger tight.  Now I check the torque whenever I get a vehicle out of the shop.  On the trailer coming out of the shop at Oliver I would hope that it wouldn’t be required.  However you still need to check and reset torque periodically.

 

- Randy

[RnA]

Vector,  If you can get to the trailer before they work on it you may want to check the torque on the other side.  Not definitive that left and right would have been the same or that the wheels  were not subject to lateral loads that could have altered the loading on the lugs.  It could prove useful though.  I would start around 70 lb-ft and try each lug to see if you get movement.  Then just add 10 lb-ft each cycle until max.  - Randy

[mdernier]

Thank God everyone is OK.

 

I'm no expert, but my sense is that if you had just gotten work done on the axles (EZ-Flex install), then it is just too coincidental that the wheels literally came off from a pot hole.  Just a theory . . . but there is a possibility that the technician did not torque the lug nuts correctly.  If (and a big IF) the lug nuts were not torqued properly, then the most likely error would be under-torqued (possibly not even tightened down).  I'm not saying that this ever happens at OTT, but in general not tightening lug nuts after service happens regularly from basic human error.

 

If loose lug nuts were a latent issue on your trailer, here is a possible failure scenario:  (1) the lug nuts all begin to back off and fall off at different times during the trip, (2) eventually one tire falls off first (leaving lugs in the hub), (3) the lugs on the remaining wheel get beaten badly and begin shearing off one by one until they all go.

[Vector - Lanham]

I have faith that they'll treat me right in this situation..they're good people. And if not, i'll deal with it and get it fixed best I can. Thanks.

[Vector - Lanham]

**Bulldog Hitch**: One thing I want to point out on the positive-side of all this is the brilliance of the Bull Dog Hitch. I love that design, it's functionality and it's strength. The BD Hitch remained in place, holding onto my hitch of the Nissan Titan XD...i didn't have any trailer sway just "trailer lean" :) and trailer sparks (my great regret is I didn't see those sparks in the pitch black night, that would have been oddly cool). I attribute the lack of sway to good trailer design, my truck's anti-sway tech and that hitch...because it didn't come off and then rely on the safety cables. I'd camped with a fellow OTT man Don Thompson at th e Amber Falls winery, and that morning, we both put a good splotch of lithium grease on each of our hitch balls and hitch receiver (inside, around the spring, etc.) to prevent corrosion, extend longevity, improve functionality. I recommend everyone to do that..take those disposable gloves as that grease is sticky and will stain. So, whomever made the call for the BD Hitch, Bravo. I do think that, among other items, is a product difference-maker, comparative advantage for Oliver.over their competition.

[Vector - Lanham]

Hey Raspy,

 

I"ll be calling to see what's up and discuss. Like you I prefer the 5200# for capacity and i'm a big believer it the best brakes possible, one of the reasons I bought the Titan XD, it has huge brakes.   The truck handled well in this situation...ironically, i just bought some new Michelin Defender LXs which will be put on this week (pre-paid, they were on-sale at Costco).  They've combined the LX and Defender into one Big Name..ha ha.

[Vector - Lanham]

No, I didn't re-check the torques..50 miles from Hohenwald, was just coming home (about a 5.5 to 6 hour drive).  It happened on a good interstate, I-55 at the ~111 mile marker,between Cape Girardeau and Jackson, Mizzoura.  I am trying to figure out why I shouldn't get steel wheels right now..they may not be as pretty, but they may be safer...I think they're safer.

[Vector - Lanham]

Hey Raspy, the tires on mine (from the factory) were

Correction BF Goodrich

, just FYI.

[Raspy]

Hey Raspy,

 

I”ll be calling to see what’s up and discuss. Like you I prefer the 5200# for capacity and i’m a big believer it the best brakes possible, one of the reasons I bought the Titan XD, it has huge brakes. The truck handled well in this situation…ironically, i just bought some new Michelin Defender LXs which will be put on this week (pre-paid, they were on-sale at Costco). They’ve combined the LX and Defender into one Big Name..ha ha.

 

 

I too like the Bulldog.  I first saw the design as a kid and thought it was the coolest thing.  So pleased when I saw it on our Oliver.  I upgraded mine to a 2 5/16" size, but it's certainly not necessary.

 

I'm also running the Michelin Defender LTXs on my truck.  They run very smooth and quiet, and they have stayed perfectly balanced for about 20,000 miles now.  I was a Toyo guy, but these have changed my mind.

 

Good luck with your situation.