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John E Davies

2019 Ram 2500 Power Wagon vs 2018, 8 spd vs 6 spd

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Interesting, the new transmission offers a MUCH lower first gear which really helps the truck launch  from a stop, or accelerate a trailer up a freeway on-ramp. Plus the taller 8th gear ratio plus some aero aids really help the mpgs. The Fast Lane guys saw a 25% improvement over their 100 mile test loop. Jaw drops to floor....

 

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/05/2019-ram-power-wagon-you-will-be-surprised-how-much-quicker-and-more-efficient-it-is-than-the-previous-generation-video/

 

I love my Land Cruiser but this truck gets more tempting every time it gets an upgrade.... lighter empty weight, higher payload, much better performance... woohoo.

 

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John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

  • Thanks 3

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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In your opinion, how does this RAM compare to the soon to be released 2020 GMC 2500HD Duramax? I realize this topic has been exhaustive, but I intend to upgrade in the Fall and want to hear all opinions before making this large investment.


KWR


2019 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull#444


2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab, 4WD, Denali, Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel V8 Engine with Allison 6-speed transmission

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In your opinion, how does this RAM compare to the soon to be released 2020 GMC 2500HD Duramax? I realize this topic has been exhaustive, but I intend to upgrade in the Fall and want to hear all opinions before making this large investment.

 

Well, the Power Wagon is an offroad truck with a gas engine and soft, long travel suspension. It would tow an Elite II very well, but you couldn’t carry a bunch of stuff in the bed also. It’s kind of like a HD Raptor but it isn’t designed for high speed desert running...The Duramax is a brute tow vehicle with very heavy payload. It has over twice the torque and won’t go offroad. They are about as far from each other as you can get in the pickup world.

 

Or did you mean to compare the regular Ram diesel to the Duramax? What do you want to do with your TV besides tow?

 

https://www.motor1.com/news/300890/2019-ram-heavy-duty-revealed/amp/

 

I would not commit to a GM truck until you have looked at and driven a new Ram. They are completely new inside and out and they don’t have the completely butt ugly front end of the Chevy. The 2500 HD Rams drive very well with the rear coil or air suspension. The new Cummins offers up to 1000 ft lbs.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA


"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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Did not realize - I simply want to tow my OliverII from campsite to campsite across the east, and occasionally the west.  Not much (if any) off-roading left in me.  My personal reference, I prefer Toyota (my family has been through many: Tundra, Highlander, Tacoma, Lexus) but my current truck (5.7L Tundra) is the most powerful Toyota has to offer. So, in my desire to get a more capable TV for the payload and ease of towing, got to switch brands.  Personally, not a Ford person but open to just about any other.  That 2020 GMC Duramax looks intriguing. Looking at a few during the Rally almost convinced me, but, have not written the check yet.


KWR


2019 Oliver Legacy Elite II, Hull#444


2019 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab, 4WD, Denali, Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel V8 Engine with Allison 6-speed transmission

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I too never considered myself a "Ford person" and had never owned one.  After owning a Tacoma for several years and being time to move up to a 1/2 ton pickup, I first visited the local Toyota dealer to look at the Tundra.  While I liked the looks of the exterior, the interior, the electronics and the performance specifications were underwhelming versus what I knew about the other brands.  So, I went looking.

 

Realizing that that the real world differences between all the 1/2 ton's are actually very small, I simply decided to narrow my search down to just a couple of brands, take test drives (each of the local dealers let me take one home for 24 hours) and then buy the one that I liked driving the most.  As it turned out that vehicle was the F-150.

 

Bottom line - and its been said a number of times before - use specifications to narrow the field to suit what your intentions are for 90% of your use.  Then test drive.  Then buy the vehicle that you like the driving the best.

 

Bill


2017 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5EB FX4 Max Towing 2016 Oliver Elite II - Hull #117 "Twist"

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I like the Power Wagon too but you lose quite a bit of payload capacity.  A generic 2500 6.4 4X4 has about double the payload of the Power Wagon.


Mike and Carol | Fair Oaks Ranch, TX | 2016 Elite II #135 | 2020 Ram Rebel 4X4 5.7L Hemi

ALAZARCACOFLGAIDILKSKYLAMDMSMOMTNENVNMNYNCNDOHOKSCSDTNTXUTVAWVWYsm.jpg

 

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KWR: The Tundra is way overdue for an update. But like all Toyota trucks it is extremely reliable and you could put 300k miles on it without too many problems. This cannot be said for any new diesel, or any GM, Ram or Ford product. Buy an extended warranty and expect to have expen$ive components fail.

 

In your shoes I would keep the Tundra, or wait until there was a new model and trade it in. If you want more towing power you can change the ring and pinions for $2000 and that would really wake it up. Or if you are running big tires, put back OEM sized rubber to restore lost power. Airbags will inexpensively correct a saggy butt.

 

I have never understood why Toyota avoids the HD pickup market. They would never sell as many as the big three, but there are plenty of folks with bigger toys that would love more power and that stellar reliability. The Toyota company is a weird duck, they seem to be very reluctant to invest in vehicles that are only sold in the USA. Maybe they will do moderate upgrades, maybe they will just let it percolate along as is, and make all their money on Camrys and RAV4s. Maybe this 500 ft lb twin turbo ten speed hybrid with 30 mpg.... https://www.motor1.com/news/351355/2021-toyota-tundra-engine-rumors/

 

I would buy a (three year old Certified Used) Land Cruiser 300 with that drivetrain, in a heartbeat. Toyota’s truck drivetrains are so bulletproof you could easily tweak the boost for 600ft lbs or more and not lose much reliability. You betcha!

 

Final comment, since your family has had Toyotas for a long time, I think any brand switch would be a disappointment, hopefully just a small one...

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

  • Thanks 1

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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I like these guys, they do road test on many trucks, Rebel vs. Power Wagon road test, 

 

 

 

trainman


Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #489, 2019 RAM 1500, 5.7 Hemi, 4X4, Crew Cab, 5'7" bed, Towing Package, 3.92 Gears.

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If I had a TV that is working for me now, I wouldn't buy a new truck until probably middle of next year.  New 2020 F150 (new diesels and maybe hybrid) and new eco diesel 2020 RAM 1500 should be out and details for the 2021 Tundra should also be available, hopefully with the ability to purchase by late summer/early fall 2020. The new Tundra looks promising: https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/05/will-the-2021-toyota-tundra-have-a-twin-turbo-v6-hybrid-with-450-hp-and-30-mpg-rumor/  - if those rumors are true then it could be great- just as long as it doesn't come with a tiny gas tank and they fix their payload issues.  2019 Tundra crew has only 200lbs more payload than a RAV4. Hybrid also offers some interesting options for power the front wheels with electricity only to help you get unstuck.

 

The Power Wagon and some of the GM gas trucks are closing the MPG gap on many of the diesels, with lower costs and higher payloads without the maintenance issues with "clean diesel".


2019 LE2 #529.   

2018 Navigator L   2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax

 

 

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I like the Power Wagon too but you lose quite a bit of payload capacity. A generic 2500 6.4 4X4 has about double the payload of the Power Wagon.

Aftermarket rear airbags..... the only thing reducing the load rating on the PW is the soft springs. With air assist you can level the truck and carry a much heavier load safely, though technically this would not be legal. This is what the Raptor guys do. But I would feel much safer carrying more than the rated payload in a 7000 pound HD truck than a 5600 pound light duty one, since it has such a beefy frame and drivetrain.

 

BTW, the PW comes factory equipped with a stout steel front bumper, 12k winch, heavy skid plates, lift, big AT tires, front and rear differential lockers, swaybar disconnect, etc, and those parts are figured into the payload number, and they have a full factory warranty. So if you bought a regular Ram Bighorn, for example, and then did all the same stuff to it, you would have to subtract off the weight of all that gear from the usable load, probably about 400 or 500 pounds. And it would cost about double. If this sort of truck is what you want, you really can’t match it for the $8000 cost of the Power Wagon package. You can, this year, order a stripped Tradesman with that package, if you wanted a great offroad, no-frills pickup truck, for about $50k MSRP.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

  • Thanks 2

"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags.

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I am very tempted by the RAM Tradesman with the Power Wagon package.  If I install the air bags, and a few other possible mods, as suggested by Bob Wohlers, to increase payload (https://discoveroffroading.com/about-bob-wohlers) will I be voiding the warranties?  I would like to have the capability of parking the travel trailer and exploring off road.

 

I am considering starting with a pick up camper and then transitioning to a travel trailer after a few years.  But I want to start with a tow vehicle that will tow the Oliver Elite II.

 

Or should I look at a 4wd Ford F250 and modify suspension etc to get a Ford "Power Wagon".  I am sure there are companies that will 'convert' one.  But at what cost?  I want at least a 6.5 foot box.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

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I am not a lawyer.  But if you are in an accident and the police/ your insurance/other guys lawyers are after you and you have 2000 lbs of stuff in the truck, which is going to look better? The guy who has a door jamb sticker that says 2900lbs of payload and put parts on parts to make the truck more off-road friendly, or the guy that has a sticker that says 1200lbs (most PWs are around here unless you go for the base tradesman with PW package) and put stuff on to increase payload.  That said, if you fit into the payload of the PW or PW package tradesman, they do represent great value.  You can't even get an e-locker rear on a 2500 that isn't PW/PW package.  All other trims are limited slip differential.

 

Also note: a 3/4 truck isn't the best offload platform.  Tons of weight, overhangs, and blind spots.  Approach/departure/breakover angles are all decent compared to a Jeep.  For example approach: PW 29.6/Rubicon 44 degrees.

 

 


2019 LE2 #529.   

2018 Navigator L   2020 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax

 

 

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I would not commit to a GM truck until you have looked at and driven a new Ram. They are completely new inside and out and they don’t have the completely butt ugly front end of the Chevy. The 2500 HD Rams drive very well with the rear coil or air suspension. The new Cummins offers up to 1000 ft lbs.

 

To each his own, but it was the front end "butt ugly" look of the GMC that I really liked, over the Ford and especially the goofy look of the RAM. Funny I saw a very similar remark online by some supposed truck reviewer expert. As JD commented, test them all, and make your decision.

 

If I have had one, I have had twenty people tell me how much they like the look of my truck. Guess beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder!

 

Why one would purchase too less of a truck just to then add equipment to help with the shortcomings, let alone exceed the payload and tow ratings, is beyond me.

 

Guess those guys with the 300K Duramax's are telling tall tales......

 

A nice Prius might be in order, with enough aftermarket upgrades. Esp for those with Toyota blinders.

 

All in jest,

 

RB


Cindy,  Russell and  "Harley dog" . Home is our little farm near Winchester TN

2018 Oliver Legacy Elite II - 2018 GMC 2500 Duramax 

"Die young - As late as possible"

ALAZARCACOFLIDMTNVNMOKORTNTXUTWAWYd56201524964bac5483378b34b491562080842sm.jpg

 

 

 

 

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