LiFeBlue Battery Representative

[LiFeBlueBattery]

Hello All, 
We are honored to be a supplier of Li-ion batteries for Oliver Travel Trailers. My purpose on the forum is to offer you the best customer service and support.  If you have any questions let me know how I can help.

Larry Crutcher, GM
LiFeBlue Battery
sales@lifebluebattery.com
(920) LiFePO4
(920) 543-3764

Edited August 18, 2020 by LiFeBlueBattery
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[Mike and Carol]

Hey Larry, welcome to the forum.  Thanks for the support!  Mike

[SeaDawg]

Hi, Larry, and welcome.

I suspect you will have a number of questions from folks considering the lithium option.

Thanks for joining the forum.

Sherry

[LiFeBlueBattery]

Thanks Mike and Carol and SeaDawg. Glad to be here to help.

[Mike W]

Hi Larry,

Would you recommend a MPPT charge controller over a PMW for your LiFeBlue lithium ion batteries? I find it odd that Zamp doesnt use MPPT's on there installs.

   Thanks for your help.

             Mike

[LiFeBlueBattery]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:51 PM, Overlandaz said:

Hi Larry,

Would you recommend a MPPT charge controller over a PMW for your LiFeBlue lithium ion batteries? I find it odd that Zamp doesnt use MPPT's on there installs.

   Thanks for your help.

             Mike

Hello Mike,

A MPPT controller should be used with any PV solar modules (aka solar panel, a misnomer) that has a Vmp (the operating voltage) of 17.0V or higher. It does not matter what kind of battery you have. 

A PWM controller is like a switch: it turns on and off and will only pass the rated current of your module. This causes you to loose potential power which I’ll explain later. A MPPT controller can capture all the power that a module can produce by using DC converters. 

Consider this example: 100W PV module rated at 20 Vmp and 5 Imp (the output current). According to Ohms law, Volts x Amps = Watts. So, for our above module, here's the math: 20V x 5A = 100W. Also know that a solar module is a constant current device. In our example, you will get about 5 Amps from 0 to 20 volts. 

A PWM controller will directly connect the PV module to the battery. A battery is a load and will pull down the voltage of the module. If the battery is 13 volts, here's the math: 13V X 5A = 65W. You only produce 65 Watts of power because the amperage is at 5A and the voltage is pulled down to 13V. 

If you use MPPT controller with the same module, you can produce nearly 100 Watts of power. The difference is that the MPPT controller converts the 20 Vmp down to 13V and raises the current at the same time. By this conversion process, you can raise current because the power (100W) is still available. You now get about 7.5 Amps from your 100W solar module. Here’s the math: 13 x 7.5 = 100W (you loose some in the conversion process)

There are other factors affecting performance but using MPPT for high voltage modules is important. Hope this helps!

[Mike W]

Thank you for the info Larry. Have to break out the calculator and do some number crunching.

     Mike

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

I guess I don't know the difference between "PWM" and  "MPPT" controllers.  Maybe I don't need to know?

Sorry, I'm a business major 😏

[Gonz]

Larry,

Glad to know you.  My wife and I have ordered an Ollie and are considering going with the lithium pro package.  Please send me the specification sheet for the LifeBlue batteries that are used in this package.  Also, provide information on LifeBlue the company and how long you have been selling this particular battery.

Sincerely,

George Gonzalez

[topgun2]

Susan - 

Larry explains the difference between these two types of controllers above.

Bill

[LiFeBlueBattery]

Hello George,

Here's a link to the data sheet on the LiFeBlue Battery website: http://www.lifebluebattery.com/ewExternalFiles/LB12200-HCLT Data Sheet.pdf

The low temperature battery was introduced about 1-1/2 years ago. It is the same as our standard 200AH except it has the heater circuit. The latest version, and the one that OTT uses, is model LB12200D-LT. This version has an RS-485 data port built in for programming and future use. We have been selling our batteries for about 4 years now.

Our OEM is Shenzhen Topband Battery Co. and they design and manufacturer our cells and custom BMS. Topband has developed Li-ion batteries for over 13 years. They have worked with us to consistently improve our battery features and quality. You can learn more about our manufacturer in the attached video.

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by LiFeBlueBattery

[ysmroth]

HOW TO CONVERT AGM BATTERIES TO LITHIUM BATTERIES?

 

 

 

[Overland]

13 minutes ago, ysmroth said:

HOW TO CONVERT AGM BATTERIES TO LITHIUM BATTERIES?

@LiFeBlueBattery Can you tell us if your batteries will work with the Zamp controllers and Progressive Industries chargers that are installed in existing Olivers?  

[ysmroth]

2 minutes ago, Overland said:

@LiFeBlueBattery Can you tell us if your batteries will work with the Zamp controllers and Progressive Industries chargers that are installed in existing Olivers?  

DO LIFEBLUE BATTERIES WORK WITH THE ZAMP CONTROLLERS AND PROGRESSIVE INDUSTRIES CHARGERS?

[ysmroth]

I DONT KNOW HOW TO UPGRADE

 

[Overland]

8 minutes ago, ysmroth said:

I DONT KNOW HOW TO UPGRADE

Patience, the answer to my earlier question will lead to the answer to yours.

Please turn off your caps lock.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Overland

[ysmroth]

i have the trojan agm batteries in my oliver and yes they work but want to upgrade to lithium batteries

 

[bhncb]

18 minutes ago, ysmroth said:

DO LIFEBLUE BATTERIES WORK WITH THE ZAMP CONTROLLERS AND PROGRESSIVE INDUSTRIES CHARGERS?

Yes, the ZAMP controller has a configuration setting for Lithium battery type. If equipped, the DC charger (converter) section in the Progressive Dynamics  power distribution center has to be replace with a Lithium compatible model. 

[LiFeBlueBattery]

31 minutes ago, ysmroth said:

DO LIFEBLUE BATTERIES WORK WITH THE ZAMP CONTROLLERS AND PROGRESSIVE INDUSTRIES CHARGERS?

LiFeBlue Battery can be charged from any power source within the voltage and current range specified. Nearly all PV solar controllers have  multiple modes. If it has a Li-ion mode, you can use that. If not, we recommend using the GEL battery mode for 2 reasons. #1) Temperature compensation is defeated as a GEL lead acid battery can be destroyed quickly by high voltage. #2) GEL settings float at 13.8 Volts which will keep the battery topped off until the sun sets.

Did you mean to ask about "Progressive Dynamics"? PI makes surge adapters and other products; PD makes converters. The PD multi-stage models generally will not work because they sample voltage before starting. Because Li batteries operate at higher voltages, this and other brand chargers think the battery is full and starts in the Float mode. Some have control boards with a button that allows the user to change to the Boost mode which will charge our battery. Other models have a port for external Charge Wizard or the Pendant. Each of those have a button to change charge mode.

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by LiFeBlueBattery

[LiFeBlueBattery]

6 minutes ago, bhncb said:

....the DC charger (converter) section in the Progressive Dynamics  power distribution center has to be replace with a Lithium compatible model. 

Hello, I posted before seeing your response. Please review my post above. The converter does not have to be replaced if you can use the on board button, Charge Wizard or Pendant. If you always want automatic charging, you will need to replace the converter.

[Overland]

My bad on the PI vs PD, I always get those backwards.  Neither seem particularly progressive to me, lol.  

 

Thanks for the prompt reply.  The charger model that Oliver has used is the PD-4045, and I think that they may have switched in more recent trailers to the PD-4060.  I don't know when they added the Lithium switch, except that as of 2017 they didn't have it.  From their website, it looks like the charge wizard and pendant only work with their 9000 series chargers.

Assuming that's true, I guess that most current owners would need to swap out the PD charger module, which I'd think is easy enough of a modification for most owners.  Then just change the setting on the Zamp controller and swap out the batteries.  Easy enough.

Looking at the current PD-4000 series manual though, I thought this was curious - "The optional OUTPUT MODE SWITCH sets the converter output to either a constant 14.6VDC with the Charge Wizard® disabled".  So does that mean that in lithium mode, it's just constant 14.6 v and then off?  

[bhncb]

18 minutes ago, LiFeBlueBattery said:

Hello, I posted before seeing your response. Please review my post above. The converter does not have to be replaced if you can use the on board button, Charge Wizard or Pendant. If you always want automatic charging, you will need to replace the converter.

Only the very latest models of the PD 4000 have a switch for Lithium compatibility mode. I'm not aware of the other two options you mentioned but am also not sure of any value to non-automatic charging.

[bhncb]

6 minutes ago, Overland said:

Neither seem particularly progressive to me, lol.  

That makes the Xantrex inverter/charger the better solution. 

[Overland]

6 minutes ago, bhncb said:

That makes the Xantrex inverter/charger the better solution. 

Agreed, and Victron the best 😜

How is Oliver connecting the Xantrex?  Are they still running it though the PD-4000 but with the charger module removed, or are they using a different distribution box?  

Also, at the time I bought my batteries, Battleborn was the only game in town for LFPs with a built in BMS, and I actually bought them solely because they said that their batteries would work with the then-current PD-4000, without the lithium switch.  My other choice was to build my own - glad I didn't.  

Edited September 28, 2020 by Overland

[ysmroth]

thanks for no imformation,i will call oliver since you are unable to answer