Xantrex XCPro 3000 warning code

[Ray and Susan Huff]

As one who doesn't really understand the intricacies of battery/charger/converter operation, I do not want to be attempting to trouble shoot the problem and experiment with possible fixes.  I just want an inverter that does what it is supposed to do when it is supposed to do it.

When the issue first appeared, we were told by Oliver that the inverter was simply not communicating with the remote display panel (that is what the "20" warning code suggested) and that the inverter itself was functioning properly.  My main concern was mostly that the batteries weren't charging, but also that the entire electrical system might not be working as it should; there is no good way to tell, with no display panel (crawling under the bed is not a good option!).

If this is a hardware/software issue, Xantrex should supply all affected with a properly working inverter/charger, assuming there are some that work.  If the cause is related to installation, then Oliver engineers need to resolve the problem, come up with a solution, and get things working properly.  Has either Xantrex or Oliver been able to duplicate the problem in person?  There are many questions I don't know the answers to: does this problem occur with all battery configurations?  Solar or non solar? Is it only a problem with 3000w inverter?  Some, but not all?

I'm not bashing Oliver; they build based on the assumption that third party components will perform as intended.  However, a product is only as good as the weakest part and battery charging/controlling is not a minor component.  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

2 hours ago, Dgsmith said:

   FWIW as this is not the exact same problem as most are having with the Xantrex XCPro 3000.  I noticed that I was getting the “20” warning code several days after delivery of my new OTT.  Long story short, my issue became no charging of the batteries from shore power.  I tried checking all the Xantrex switches, the breakers, the cables, etc. to no avail.  I finally downloaded the Xantrex Bluetooth app off their website, and after pairing, went to the settings menu and noticed that there was a switch pertaining to charging from the tow vehicle which was on “auto on” .  I thought that’s odd because that can’t be done as my tow vehicle is not set up for that.  So I turned this switch in the app to off and lo and behold my batteries finally started charging from shore power.  The Xantrex did cut off by itself after the batteries were fully charged.  Maybe next week after the weather warms up I can put the system through a discharge/charge cycle or two to see if there are continued issues with the Xantrex.

I did not know there was a Xantrex app.  With the app, does your phone do the same thing the remote display does?  Could you please share the link.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

On 12/20/2020 at 6:28 AM, Jairon said:

Has anyone reported this issue using the XC 2000 inverter and display panel? The internals of the inverter are so similar to that of the XC 3000 that it makes me think the issue might be specific to wiring differences between the lithium and non-lithium configurations.

This theory obviously goes out the window when someone using the XC 2000 reports the issue.

I have these same questions.  Do all of those with the "20" code problem have Lithium/solar configuration?  I expect so, since the 3000w inverter is not an option without the Lithium Pro upgrade.

Does anyone with AGM/solar and 2000w inverter have this issue?

[topgun2]

You might try THIS

Bill

[ScubaRx]

This page has links to the firmware update and instructions for installation.

 

[Dgsmith]

1 hour ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

I did not know there was a Xantrex app.  With the app, does your phone do the same thing the remote display does?  Could you please share the link.

I don’t know much RV electrical but I’m having to learn.  I don’t have much choice living in a very remote location.  

I added the “FXC Control App” to my phone that can be obtained from the Google Play store or the iOS App Store.  This app is specifically for the Xantrex remote to view and monitor and configure the remote.  I didn’t know this app  existed until I had exhausted all other attempts to find out why my Xantrex was always in a “bypass” mode, never charging the batteries.  I thought there has got to be something like a software issue.  If one goes to the Xantrex website and looks at the product menu, finds the Xantrex Freedom remote and looks at that page you will see that they mention this application for the Xantrex remote.  It might be worth a look and maybe by working with someone at Xantrex they may be of better guidance on using the app.  In my case, I was desperate as I needed the lithium batteries charged enough to get the water pump to work so I could winterize before this polar vortex dipping into Texas and it was the weekend.  I stuck my neck out and tried the app and out of dumb luck I seemed to have made the right parameter change.  I’d recommend calling Xantrex in the future if possible.  Sorry for the long diatribe.

[Dgsmith]

18 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

You might try THIS

Bill

Bill,

Yes, that’s the App!  Well said. Thanks!

David

[Jairon]

Memo from Xantrex: http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inverter-Chargers/Freedom XC/FXC PRO Remote compatibility Memo.pdf

Note: This memo is from 8 months ago. I'd be curious to know what panel part numbers/serial numbers are on the units that are acting up.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Jairon

[SeaDawg]

From what I've read, I think all the blue tooth remote panels are backward compatible.  If you have a non bluetooth panel, then it would be worthwhile to check the serial numbers .

We have a xantrex 2000 on our boat (not in the trailer), so I've been watching this issue with interest,  though we've not had a problem with ours.

 

[SeaDawg]

I'm also curious  as to the firmware release number forwarded to Oliver, and forwarded to mcb and nceagle. The latest release number on the xantrex website is 1.06. This looks to be a 30 to 45 minute process, even if your trailer is at he house, if all steps are followed, properly. 

As Jairon noted, it would be interesting to see serial numbers on the inverters . And helpful,  to both Oliver and Xantrex.

We chose Xantrex for the boat for a number of reasons, including the size, lighter weight, dual function, and Xantrex history of reliability. 

The xcpro is pretty much cutting edge. And, also pretty new, with many programming options to accommodate all charging situations and battery types. 

I was excited to see Oliver adopt newer tech. Hopefully,  it will all work out shortly. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by SeaDawg

[NCeagle]

Jason sent me this same version, U3 v1.06.

Something isn't adding up here.  This firmware is from 8 months ago and from what I can tell most of us having this issue have just picked up our Ollie's recently and have the 3000 inverter (lithium package).  I was working directly with Xantrex technical support about a month ago on a different problem and mentioned this [20] error code many of us were seeing.  I was told at the time that they were aware of the issue and were testing a fix that required a complete re-flash of the software (not just a firmware update), and that it could only be done at a certified Xantrex service center.  The tech didn't even mention trying v1.06 to try and resolve the [20] error and it was certainly available at the time.

I put the new firmware on yesterday - it was simple and only took a few minutes.  I didn't think it worked it was so simple and quick, but my Xantrex is indeed now running U3 1.06.  It has not fixed the problem on my inverter.  I can recreate the [20] error every time by cutting the connection (using the relay) between the Xantrex and the battery while on shore power.  I do this often because I don't want the Xantrex keeping my Lithiums topped off and the only way to stop the Xantrex from charging the batteries while on shore power is hard disconnect.  I can also "fix" the [20] error by cycling the shore power AFTER the battery is already cut off from the inverter.  The remote works fine until I connect and subsequently disconnect the battery again. 

I don't think Xantrex expected their customers to be continuously connecting and disconnecting the batteries in order to manage the SoC, but you pretty much have to if you own Lithiums since the inverter is set up by default to always top off the batteries and keep them there.  I know these Lithium vendors say don't worry about it - our BMS protects the battery...  but that's a marketing response.  All research points to the fact that temperature and SoC are the two critical factors in Lithium longevity.  Temperature does more damage to the Lithiums when they are in a full SoC as well - so why keep them at 100% when on shore power?

I'll try and figure out what the serial number on my remote is and share it with OTT, but I suspect this firmware has nothing to do with our [20] error code.

In the meantime, if anyone with the Lithium package has a chance, it would be interesting to see if anyone else can recreate the [20] error consistently with the sequence I described above...  or, if there are any other sequences that cause the problem?

[NCeagle]

I just realized that when on shore power with the battery disconnected, the Xantrex remote and inverter both think there's still a battery there!  It shows the battery as "100% full" and in FLT (float) mode.  This all points to a problem with the inverter not really recognizing the fact that the battery has been disconnected.  This also may help explain the fan cycling issue I saw - if the charger is thinking there's a battery there, it is sending a float charge to the relay?  Could that be a fire hazard?  Probably not since the wire is thick and the amps would be low, but imagine if the inverter thinks the battery is empty and sends 100 amps to the relay.  That might be a problem.

Edited February 18, 2021 by NCeagle
wording

[SeaDawg]

Nceagle, I  haven't read your xcpro 3000 manual, but with the variable charge settings available for various types of batteries on your device, I  would think there would be a way in the settings to keep the charger from always trying to top off your battery to 100 per cent. As in, a set of "winter storage settings" that would only charge to a certain volt limit, representing say 50 per cent of charge, instead of physically disconnecting the charger. Or, a method, through settings, to turn the charger to "off"?

 

 

 

 

[NCeagle]

30 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

Nceagle, I  haven't read your xcpro 3000 manual, but with the variable charge settings available for various types of batteries on your device, I  would think there would be a way in the settings to keep the charger from always trying to top off your battery to 100 per cent. As in, a set of "winter storage settings" that would only charge to a certain volt limit, representing say 50 per cent of charge, instead of physically disconnecting the charger. Or, a method, through settings, to turn the charger to "off"?

 

 

 

 

Hi SeaDawg, I completely agree that would be far better than a physical cutoff.  I've actually asked this question and Jason has confirmed that there is no way to control the charger's "default on" except for ignition on/off and how many amps to send while charging.  Another option, and maybe the best place for "software configurability" would be within the battery BMS itself.

I actually sent LifeBlue an email a few days ago asking them for best practices for travel trailers that spend a lot of time on shore power (like mine when at home).  I told them I'm not going into "cold storage" mode because I want to move conditioned air around the trailer year round and need the batteries for that among other things (lights, etc).  I told them my practice based on research from Battery University was to keep the batteries between 60%-80% and that had me charging the batteries about once per week back up to 80%.  They confirmed that keeping the batteries between 60% - 80% was a good practice for that type of scenario.   They also always say don't worry about keeping the batteries topped off though - because the BMS will protect them.  But then they turn around and recommend storing them disconnected at 50%.  😄 

Someone is going to win the race to market for sophisticated Lithium chargers or BMS systems and make some $$$.  Sounds like a good opportunity for a start up.  🙂 

 

 

[NCeagle]

Ok, thanks to @SeaDawg's comment above about a software setting to turn the charger off, some kind of neurons fired (or misfired) in my head and I thought of the post I had read from @Dgsmithyesterday about his issue with the charger ignition control "setting" being wrong - not allowing the inverter to charge the battery.  Well, I went out and tried toggling this software setting and it works.  I can turn the charger on and off with the software setting!!  No more [20] error code, no more reaching under the bed all the time to toggle that relay - and its great IF it isn't causing any other unseen issues or risks.  

This has been a valuable collaborative effort on this topic!  The reason my inverter was getting the [20] error code was because of the way I was trying to take care of my batteries.  Everything started pointing to the Xantrex misbehaving when no batteries were connected while it was alive and passing shore power through.  There may be other things that can cause the [20] error code, but fingers crossed that this was the primary reason some of us are seeing it.

I'm not advocating doing this without validation from Xantrex / OTT Service that it's safe.  I'm going to share all of this with OTT Service and hopefully they can work with Xantrex to verify if it's safe as a workaround OR have Xantrex provide a permanent, approved solution. 

I'll shut up now - everyone can breath a sigh of relief!  🤣

[SeaDawg]

If that works for you, it's certainly a less time consuming option than what I was thinking about.

I was actually thinking more along the lines of programming "winter settings" through the customization settings. I don't know what volts 50, 60 or 80 per cent is on your lifepo4 battery, but Lifeblue should be able to give you a chart. And work with Xantrex to give you proper settings. 

If you set up charging through custom settings to keep the battery at 60, or 70, or 80, thru the winter, you'd have to change all the settings in the spring, or whenever you decided to go camping.

Tesla cars allow this topend limit change easily on a touch screen, but then, they're Tesla. My Tesla home Powerwall battery backup allows me to change per centage of discharge allowed easily, but not the top end.  Again, it's Tesla. I've thought about asking why I  can't control the top end, which always charges to 100 per cent, but then I  think their engineers know a lot more than I do about that battery chemistry. 😀 and, I  have a really long warranty. 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

14 hours ago, NCeagle said:

Jason sent me this same version, U3 v1.06.

Something isn't adding up here.  This firmware is from 8 months ago and from what I can tell most of us having this issue have just picked up our Ollie's recently and have the 3000 inverter (lithium package).  I was working directly with Xantrex technical support about a month ago on a different problem and mentioned this [20] error code many of us were seeing.  I was told at the time that they were aware of the issue and were testing a fix that required a complete re-flash of the software (not just a firmware update), and that it could only be done at a certified Xantrex service center.  The tech didn't even mention trying v1.06 to try and resolve the [20] error and it was certainly available at the time.

I put the new firmware on yesterday - it was simple and only took a few minutes.  I didn't think it worked it was so simple and quick, but my Xantrex is indeed now running U3 1.06.  It has not fixed the problem on my inverter.  I can recreate the [20] error every time by cutting the connection (using the relay) between the Xantrex and the battery while on shore power.  I do this often because I don't want the Xantrex keeping my Lithiums topped off and the only way to stop the Xantrex from charging the batteries while on shore power is hard disconnect.  I can also "fix" the [20] error by cycling the shore power AFTER the battery is already cut off from the inverter.  The remote works fine until I connect and subsequently disconnect the battery again. 

I don't think Xantrex expected their customers to be continuously connecting and disconnecting the batteries in order to manage the SoC, but you pretty much have to if you own Lithiums since the inverter is set up by default to always top off the batteries and keep them there.  I know these Lithium vendors say don't worry about it - our BMS protects the battery...  but that's a marketing response.  All research points to the fact that temperature and SoC are the two critical factors in Lithium longevity.  Temperature does more damage to the Lithiums when they are in a full SoC as well - so why keep them at 100% when on shore power?

I'll try and figure out what the serial number on my remote is and share it with OTT, but I suspect this firmware has nothing to do with our [20] error code.

In the meantime, if anyone with the Lithium package has a chance, it would be interesting to see if anyone else can recreate the [20] error consistently with the sequence I described above...  or, if there are any other sequences that cause the problem?

We have never disconnected our lithium batteries.  The Xantrex remote panel worked for a couple of days after we picked up our Elite II (Dec 7 2020).  Unfortunately, I don't recall what the circumstances were when we first got the "20" code; I noticed it after we unhooked from shore power and moved to a new location - around day 3 or so.  The display came back to normal after we got home, but not for long.  The trailer has been connected to shore power, off and on, and the display has not returned to the operable state.  As I said, our batteries have always been connected.

[SeaDawg]

Susan, your situation is obviously different. 

Are you still showing a code 20? If not, if it reappears, try to record what happened just before .

Anything you can document will help , I suspect.  I haven't found this issue elsewhere,  but most of the other forums I participate in are sailing forums. 

 

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

3 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Susan, your situation is obviously different. 

Are you still showing a code 20? If not, if it reappears, try to record what happened just before .

Anything you can document will help , I suspect.  I haven't found this issue elsewhere,  but most of the other forums I participate in are sailing forums. 

 

 

Still code 20 . . . . . I check it every day.  Screen is blank until I push the topmost button, then the [20] comes back.  I assume the screen is timing out?

I'll do my best to record what the circumstances are if the display returns to normal.

[NCeagle]

I was on the phone with Xantrex tech support for well over an hour yesterday.  Jason had contacted them and they asked to speak directly to me since there were many questions about my configuration, what buttons I had pushed, what load I was running for the test.... etc.

In summary, here's what I found (I relayed everything to Jason):

1.  The tech thinks the [20] error code that I can create every time by throwing the breaker between the inverter and the batteries is normal (sort of).  He thinks that by having the battery "ripped" out from it's control causes a normal loss of communication for a split second.  He says the remote should recover - but it doesn't so the bug here may be recovering from the disconnect error - not the error itself.  Only time and maybe further testing by OTT and Xantrex will tell if this is really true.  I'm skeptical because I can recreate the [20] error so easily and consistently with or without the new firmware.

2.  I have the new firmware (1.06) installed that is supposed to fix the [20] error code, which comes up in many different scenarios where it should not (according to Xantrex).  The hope is that the [20] error won't be coming up for reasons other than the hard disconnect described above.  Again, OTT is testing and time will tell.

3. I told him that even when the battery is disconnected, the inverter still pretends it's there and says it's 100% full.  He said that the inverter is still "seeing" the 1 foot or so of thick copper that connects to the breaker switch.  It's sending a charge down that line and getting back "full" 3.7 volts from the wire.  So the "phantom" battery may not be a problem but it still seems strange to me that the inverter doesn't know the battery is really not there anymore.

4.  I asked if there's any way he knows of to "stop" and "start" charging programmatically.  He said no and asked why I wanted to stop charging before the battery bank was full.  As soon as I mentioned Lithium he said it makes sense and several other Xantrex customers with Lithiums have asked about more control over charging.  So at least Xantrex is aware that chargers may need to become more advanced with the Lithiums taking the market.

5.  I explained the software "workaround" I accidently discovered - using the charger ignition control setting (accessed via the main screen, remote screen or bluetooth app) to stop and start the charger.  He pulled up his documentation to read about what the setting actually does.  He actually said it's an "ingenious" way to use that software function and won't hurt a thing.  All it's doing is turning the charger on and off via the firmware.  We don't use that setting for what it's really intended for, which is to only charge the battery in a truck / ambulance / RV van when the engine / alternator is running.

6.  After upgrading the firmware and starting to use the software switch to control the charger, I have put my inverter / charger through the wringer.  I cannot / have not been able to recreate the [20] error.  That certainly doesn't mean it's fixed, but I won't be seeing that error any longer because I threw the breaker.

I'm hoping OTT and Xantrex can figure out the rest and make the appropriate recommendations.  I  think everyone is wondering by now if I have a life - yes I do - and I'm going camping in GA and SC all next week so I won't be bugging everyone on the forum.  😄

[NCeagle]

5 hours ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Still code 20 . . . . . I check it every day.  Screen is blank until I push the topmost button, then the [20] comes back.  I assume the screen is timing out?

I'll do my best to record what the circumstances are if the display returns to normal.

@Ray and Susan Huff, this might be worth a try as it works for me.  I am able to clear the [20] error code by disconnecting the shore power AND battery from the inverter for a few minutes.  When you do that and restart it by putting it back on either shore power, battery or both it apparently does a hard reset.

Even if you can't get the [20] error code cleared using the hard reset, you should put the new firmware on.  It's easy and very quick once you get it on the thumb drive.  You don't need the remote to do this and it also requires a power off / power on sequence, so either way you are doing a "hard reset" along with the upgrade.

Like I said in the post above, according to Xantrex that may fix what's causing your [20] error code since you are apparently getting the code for a reason different than mine.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

9 hours ago, NCeagle said:

@Ray and Susan Huff, this might be worth a try as it works for me.  I am able to clear the [20] error code by disconnecting the shore power AND battery from the inverter for a few minutes.  When you do that and restart it by putting it back on either shore power, battery or both it apparently does a hard reset.

Even if you can't get the [20] error code cleared using the hard reset, you should put the new firmware on.  It's easy and very quick once you get it on the thumb drive.  You don't need the remote to do this and it also requires a power off / power on sequence, so either way you are doing a "hard reset" along with the upgrade.

Like I said in the post above, according to Xantrex that may fix what's causing your [20] error code since you are apparently getting the code for a reason different than mine.

Thanks for the suggestion.  How to disconnect the batteries?  (Lithium)  Does it matter what sequence you disconnect/reconnect in?

OTT has not communicated with us regarding the firmware update.

[NCeagle]

Hi @Ray and Susan Huff, you don't have to disconnect the batteries - use the relay cutoff located under the street side bed - nearest the pantry.  There are two in there and you want the one that is mounted directly under the pantry.  Here's a picture looking down the basement from the rear to the front on the street side.  I've circled the breaker that is in between the batteries and the inverter.  This is the one that you want to "trip" by pushing the top red square button.  When you do that the bar on the side will come out - the picture shows the bar on mine "tripped".  Do this and also cut off shore power.  Then reset this breaker by pushing that bar on the side back in and turn on shore power if you want - then see if you have reset your remote.

Sorry for confusion!!

[NCeagle]

3 hours ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

OTT has not communicated with us regarding the firmware update.

I suggest you contact OTT service by updating your service ticket on this issue and just ask for the instructions and the software.  They were in the middle of testing the software and then the big storms hit and they haven't been able to get back into work and finish, but they have sent it to at least me and @Mcbvia email - maybe others.  I have had it installed for a day now and fingers crossed - no [20] error code yet.  🙂  

[Ray and Susan Huff]

5 hours ago, NCeagle said:

I suggest you contact OTT service by updating your service ticket on this issue and just ask for the instructions and the software.  They were in the middle of testing the software and then the big storms hit and they haven't been able to get back into work and finish, but they have sent it to at least me and @Mcbvia email - maybe others.  I have had it installed for a day now and fingers crossed - no [20] error code yet.  🙂  

Hope this puts an end to this annoyance so we can all get on to enjoying our Olivers.