Generator for 2021 and beyond

[GAP]

12 hours ago, NCeagle said:

I've thought about the need for a 30 Amp generator - thinking primarily that I'd be able to charge the Lithiums faster - however, that's not true in our case.  Our 3000 watt inverters are configured to charge the Lithiums at 100 Amps, which requires about 11 amps of 120V power, so a single Honda/Yamaha 2200 is plenty of generator to charge the batteries at full speed.  In fact, a generator that can deliver 15 amps sustained at 120 volts can deliver ~150 amps (in theory) sustained at 12 volts.  Your 1800W toaster will require (1800W / 12V) nearly 150 amps, which a single 2200 can also support.  Just don't charge your batteries and run your toaster oven at the same time unless you have 30 Amps - and even then it's gonna be borderline for something like a charger and a toaster oven.

Bottom line - I don't see the pressing need for more than a small, 2200 Watt generator at this time - and whether or not it has a 30 Amp plug is not a differentiator when it comes to generators.

Actually, I recently went deep down the rabbit hole of charging the lithiums vs running AC based items (AC, radar range, toaster) by having a long talk with an awesome tech at Xantrex.  May be an issue for another chain but...

Turns out that the Xantrex charger is set up to prioritize feeding AC product first and does so by shutting off lithium charging till your AC done with.  This is supposedly true whether you are plugged into shore power or running a generator.  The tech also pointed out that the factory settings on the Xantrex is set up with shore power in mind so she hand held me through the none too intimidating process of making a couple of tweaks.  One was adjusting the charging rate.  Factory setting is to draw power at 24amps for charging which is too much for my 2200 Honda generator.  Temporarily turned that down to 18amps which, so far, has worked perfectly.  Had previously overloaded my generator a number of times while charging with no other AC based draw.    Second tweak was adjusting the battery overload auto shut off which was set for something like 12.6 volts.  She said that too high of a cut off so we adjusted down to 10.5v.  I had been having occassional auto shut offs with an alarm an low voltage warning when using my microwave and the lithiums being at 75% charge. Since making this change, I've had no problem running the microwave at it's highest power draw and have tested with batteries down to 50%.  Will test at some point with a lower battery charge level as the lithiums are good to drain effectively down to nearly flat.  

[SeaDawg]

That's really good info, GAP. Thanks!

And great support for you, from Xantrex .

Edited January 19, 2021 by SeaDawg

[Ray and Susan Huff]

18 hours ago, NCeagle said:

I've thought about the need for a 30 Amp generator - thinking primarily that I'd be able to charge the Lithiums faster - however, that's not true in our case.  Our 3000 watt inverters are configured to charge the Lithiums at 100 Amps, which requires about 11 amps of 120V power, so a single Honda/Yamaha 2200 is plenty of generator to charge the batteries at full speed.  In fact, a generator that can deliver 15 amps sustained at 120 volts can deliver ~150 amps (in theory) sustained at 12 volts.  Your 1800W toaster will require (1800W / 12V) nearly 150 amps, which a single 2200 can also support.  Just don't charge your batteries and run your toaster oven at the same time unless you have 30 Amps - and even then it's gonna be borderline for something like a charger and a toaster oven.

Bottom line - I don't see the pressing need for more than a small, 2200 Watt generator at this time - and whether or not it has a 30 Amp plug is not a differentiator when it comes to generators.

Good to hear the 2200w generator will charge the lithiums just fine. 

So, how do I keep the batteries from charging off the generator while using the oven?  

My concern about the plugs is more how close the two 20amp receptacles are.  Is there room to plug in the Oliver power cord and a neutral ground plug to override the surge protector.

 

[Ray and Susan Huff]

23 hours ago, John E Davies said:

A great big NO, do not transport one in any position but dead upright. You could maybe get away with a steep angle (not sideways) when it is completely stationary, but not in motion. Even if you drain the gas - and you should run the carb dry every time - the oil will maybe run out the breaher vent, and the engine mounting system is not designed to support weight in the “wrong” direction. If you don’t  drain the gas, it will run out the carb, either into the cylinder head or through the paper air filter and onto the floor. At the very least a mess, at worst a fire hazard and it might maybe possibly screw up the generator. So, just forget this idea.

John Davies

Spokane WA

We found a tool box deep enough . . . . . . . Now we just need a generator!

[Ray and Susan Huff]

23 hours ago, Landrover said:

So the best idea is to get a 3400 watt with the thirty amp rv plug. Go to the gym for awhile so you can pick up the little extra weight or get a portable lift hoist to put it the Tv. And call it a day.  I’ll take my champion 3400 duel fuel with 30 amp Rv plug all day long never worry and  not expensive to buy.

We have a similar generator we use at home for power outages (actually purchased for our 5th-wheel days). . . . . . and our son built a lift for it.  However, my husband wants something quieter and easily portable for camping.

Camping sure can be complicated!

[Ray and Susan Huff]

6 hours ago, GAP said:

Actually, I recently went deep down the rabbit hole of charging the lithiums vs running AC based items (AC, radar range, toaster) by having a long talk with an awesome tech at Xantrex.  May be an issue for another chain but...

Turns out that the Xantrex charger is set up to prioritize feeding AC product first and does so by shutting off lithium charging till your AC done with.  This is supposedly true whether you are plugged into shore power or running a generator.  The tech also pointed out that the factory settings on the Xantrex is set up with shore power in mind so she hand held me through the none too intimidating process of making a couple of tweaks.  One was adjusting the charging rate.  Factory setting is to draw power at 24amps for charging which is too much for my 2200 Honda generator.  Temporarily turned that down to 18amps which, so far, has worked perfectly.  Had previously overloaded my generator a number of times while charging with no other AC based draw.    Second tweak was adjusting the battery overload auto shut off which was set for something like 12.6 volts.  She said that too high of a cut off so we adjusted down to 10.5v.  I had been having occassional auto shut offs with an alarm an low voltage warning when using my microwave and the lithiums being at 75% charge. Since making this change, I've had no problem running the microwave at it's highest power draw and have tested with batteries down to 50%.  Will test at some point with a lower battery charge level as the lithiums are good to drain effectively down to nearly flat.  

Well, you've answered my question about how to prevent the charger from overloading the generator when using high watt appliances off the generator.

Now you have me wondering about the Xantrex charger and battery configuration.  Yes, you have led us down a rabbit hole!!!

Just when things are becoming clear, something comes along and muddies them up 😕

[Ray and Susan Huff]

BTW:  thanks to everyone for all the great information 😀

[Jairon]

6 hours ago, GAP said:

May be an issue for another chain but...

I'd love to hear more about the changes Xantrex suggested! You said you temporarily adjusted the power draw from 24 to 18amps. How quickly can you flip that back to 24 when you're not on generator power? Thanks!

We just picked up our 2200i after waiting a few weeks for them to restock. I have a feeling they are going to fly off the shelves this summer.

[GAP]

The adjustments to the Xantrex setting are quick and easy to do.  Their instructions manual is intimidatingly long and certainly contains this information.  In my case, I called them directly to ask about my overload issues with the generator and under voltage shut down of the Xantrex and they walked me through the rest.  When I discussed this process with Jason at Oliver, he seemed interested and planned on following up with Xantrex to find out if my settings were a one off.  

My thought is that if you are not having a similar problem, there's nothing to worry about.  If you are having the same problems, the adjustments are easy to do and either Xantrex or filing a ticket with Oliver should get things right.  With the lithium system in our trailers being so new, I am not surprised that things required tweaks and was reassured (so far) to experience how easy it was to make adjustments.  Over the next few days, I plan on running the battery level down lower and seeing how the under voltage cut off setting works.  Will report back if further adjustment was required.

To reiterate my tweaks:         Tweak #1:  The Xantrex charging rate was at "factory setting" running at 24 amps.  My 2200 generator cannot supply that much for more than a short time so I adjusted down to 18 amps which is still high for running rate on that generator but has held for a full half hour of charging. If plugged into shore power and on a 20 amp (household type) circuit, 24 amps of charge would be too high anyhow but again, the new 18 amp setting seems fine.     Tweak #2:  My low voltage cut off (setting off alarm and a temporary shut down) was set to a battery level of 12.6 volts.  Again, this was described to me as "factory setting".  After asking for specs on my lithiums, I was instructed to adjust down to 10.5 volts.  That held well with the batteries at around 50% and I'll experiment with them at a lower level.  Tested with microwave, which was continuously causing a shut down, and all held well.

Caveat:  This is all way above my pay grade.  It is probably prudent to file a ticket with the Oliver shop to get feedback and ascertain if your settings and situation are different then mine.    Hope this info is helpful.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

14 hours ago, Jairon said:

We just picked up our 2200i after waiting a few weeks for them to restock. I have a feeling they are going to fly off the shelves this summer.

Where did you find the 2200i in stock?

[Ray and Susan Huff]

5 hours ago, GAP said:

The adjustments to the Xantrex setting are quick and easy to do.  Their instructions manual is intimidatingly long and certainly contains this information.  In my case, I called them directly to ask about my overload issues with the generator and under voltage shut down of the Xantrex and they walked me through the rest.  When I discussed this process with Jason at Oliver, he seemed interested and planned on following up with Xantrex to find out if my settings were a one off.  

My thought is that if you are not having a similar problem, there's nothing to worry about.  If you are having the same problems, the adjustments are easy to do and either Xantrex or filing a ticket with Oliver should get things right.  With the lithium system in our trailers being so new, I am not surprised that things required tweaks and was reassured (so far) to experience how easy it was to make adjustments.  Over the next few days, I plan on running the battery level down lower and seeing how the under voltage cut off setting works.  Will report back if further adjustment was required.

To reiterate my tweaks:         Tweak #1:  The Xantrex charging rate was at "factory setting" running at 24 amps.  My 2200 generator cannot supply that much for more than a short time so I adjusted down to 18 amps which is still high for running rate on that generator but has held for a full half hour of charging. If plugged into shore power and on a 20 amp (household type) circuit, 24 amps of charge would be too high anyhow but again, the new 18 amp setting seems fine.     Tweak #2:  My low voltage cut off (setting off alarm and a temporary shut down) was set to a battery level of 12.6 volts.  Again, this was described to me as "factory setting".  After asking for specs on my lithiums, I was instructed to adjust down to 10.5 volts.  That held well with the batteries at around 50% and I'll experiment with them at a lower level.  Tested with microwave, which was continuously causing a shut down, and all held well.

Caveat:  This is all way above my pay grade.  It is probably prudent to file a ticket with the Oliver shop to get feedback and ascertain if your settings and situation are different then mine.    Hope this info is helpful.

Keep us posted as to what Jason finds out about the Xantrex settings with the Lithium Pro package.

[Jairon]

6 minutes ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Where did you find the 2200i in stock?

It was in stock at home depot for a few hours. They look to still be sold out at the moment.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

4 minutes ago, Jairon said:

It was in stock at home depot for a few hours. They look to still be sold out at the moment.

Darn . . . .  I have an email notification set up with Lowe's and Yamaha . . . . to let me know when the 2200i is again available.  When I asked Yamaha, they said this Spring.   

You got lucky . . . . . we've been waiting since October.

[Jairon]

1 minute ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

You got lucky . . . . . we've been waiting since October.

Good news - I'm talking about the Honda 2200i.

Yamaha seems to have some supply chain issues if they can't ship units until spring. Best of luck in your hunt should you stay committed to the blue team.

[GAP]

On 1/20/2021 at 2:14 PM, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Keep us posted as to what Jason finds out about the Xantrex settings with the Lithium Pro package.

I have not heard any updates from Jason but was going to reach out to see what's up on his end.  We are going on a trip to New Hampshire for a few days of skiing.  Should be plenty of chance to continue testing my new settings.  Will share anything of value that I come up with.  

[Pat Maundrell]

I Enjoyed everyone comments regarding Generators.

We hope to be purchasing a 2020 Elite 2 very soon and plan on using our 18 year ols Honda 2000.

Two questions:

1. How many of you have converted to LPG, we plan to Gas, refills are a pain.

2. We plain on mounting it on the Tongue. How to some of you do it to provide security/safety etc. The trailer does not have the second 30Amp plug in, has any one added one?

3. Any other suggestions.

 

Thanks Pat

[Minnesota Oli]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:24 PM, Ray and Susan Huff said:

Darn . . . .  I have an email notification set up with Lowe's and Yamaha . . . . to let me know when the 2200i is again available.  When I asked Yamaha, they said this Spring.   

You got lucky . . . . . we've been waiting since October.

  I just want to share my experience that I had with the Yamaha EF22iS 2200 watt. I bought it for the same reasons you stated but was disappointed when I found that it could not start my easy start equipped AC unless it was left in full throttle mode. My older Honda 2000 watt had no problem doing it in eco mode. I went though all channels with Yamaha and they were of no help. What I understand is the Honda has a larger horse power engine even in the 2000 watt model. So the Yamaha lacks power to get the AC started from eco mode. So I bought the Honda 2200 and it works perfectly. Hope this help you with  purchase of a generator.     

[Ray and Susan Huff]

10 hours ago, Minnesota Oli said:

  I just want to share my experience that I had with the Yamaha EF22iS 2200 watt. I bought it for the same reasons you stated but was disappointed when I found that it could not start my easy start equipped AC unless it was left in full throttle mode. My older Honda 2000 watt had no problem doing it in eco mode. I went though all channels with Yamaha and they were of no help. What I understand is the Honda has a larger horse power engine even in the 2000 watt model. So the Yamaha lacks power to get the AC started from eco mode. So I bought the Honda 2200 and it works perfectly. Hope this help you with  purchase of a generator.     

Thank you for sharing your experience.  I did notice, looking at the specs, that the Yamaha has a different engine.  I'm curious to hear if others have the same complaint. @John E Davies???

As for the Honda 2200, does it require a neutral ground plug so the Oliver's on board surge protector will not cut the power to the trailer due to a ground fault (open ground) error (I don't recall the "E-code")?  If the neutral ground plug is needed, is there room for it to plug into the generator outlet not being used by the power cord?  The two Honda receptacles seem to be close together.

I like that the Yamaha has a 30 amp receptacle so an adapter isn't necessary to plug in the trailer's power cord and that it has a fuel gauge   (I don't believe the Honda does),  The dual carrying handles are a nice feature, too.

Edit - I just had a thought: perhaps the delay in availability of the Yamaha 2200i indicates they are revising it (more HP?) to eliminate this problem, if that makes any sense.

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Ray and Susan Huff

[Minnesota Oli]

Good Morning

Yes it does  require a neutral ground plug, with the adapter I use it is workable. I thought the fuel gauge and the lit front instrument panel were nice features also, but if it is not capable of running it's claimed max load from eco mode with out suffering a temporary low voltage it neglect's the purpose of a inverter style generator. I tried to politely tell Yamaha that in the long run they were going to lose a lot of costumers in the RV market by enticing them with the RV receptacle and then fail on performance. That is the problem when the bean counters have more input then the engineering and R&D departments in product development. 

I also included pictures to show the difference in physical size.

Paul 

[BackofBeyond]

My experience with the Honda gen sets has always been positive. But if you can't get one - 

For the $$$, and availability problems - Champion Power Equipment 2500 Watt Ultralight Portable Dual Fuel Inverter Generator-100899 - The Home Depot

or Champion Power Equipment 2500-Watt Recoil Start Gasoline Powered Inverter Generator with Champion 79 cc Engine-100889 - The Home Depot

fit the bill. HD say they can be had within a few days and they are 1/2 the price of the Honda.

Seems a good choice given the availability issues. HD is damn good about returns. 

RB

[Ray and Susan Huff]

6 hours ago, Minnesota Oli said:

Good Morning

Yes it does  require a neutral ground plug, with the adapter I use it is workable. I thought the fuel gauge and the lit front instrument panel were nice features also, but if it is not capable of running it's claimed max load from eco mode with out suffering a temporary low voltage it neglect's the purpose of a inverter style generator. I tried to politely tell Yamaha that in the long run they were going to lose a lot of costumers in the RV market by enticing them with the RV receptacle and then fail on performance. That is the problem when the bean counters have more input then the engineering and R&D departments in product development. 

I also included pictures to show the difference in physical size.

Paul 

Thanks for the photos.  I didn't realize there was that much difference in size!

One advantage the Honda does have over the Yamaha is that it is quieter.  Have you compared them, side by side?  Is the difference noticeable?

My only concern, now is the fit of the neutral ground plug and the adapter for the Oliver plug.  Could you possibly post a picture of the Yamaha with the power cord and the neutral plug in place?  

And thanks for this great information.

[Minnesota Oli]

Here you go.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

11 minutes ago, Minnesota Oli said:

Here you go.

Thank you, so much.  What are the dimensions of the neutral ground plug?  Ours is different - 2 1/4"L x 1 5/8"W x 7/8" deep.  See attached.  

I don't know if there is any chance of finding on to try the plug out.

[Minnesota Oli]

I believe what you have in the picture is a outlet tester.   neutral ground plug.

I bought my Oliver from a previous owner but I thought he told me Oliver supplied the neutral ground plug. Maybe you can ask Oliver if that is true.

You asked if the Honda was noticeable quieter then the Yamaha. It is.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

6 minutes ago, Minnesota Oli said:

I believe what you have in the picture is a outlet tester.   neutral ground plug.

I bought my Oliver from a previous owner but I thought he told me Oliver supplied the neutral ground plug. Maybe you can ask Oliver if that is true.

You asked if the Honda was noticeable quieter then the Yamaha. It is.

Thanks . . . . . I just realized the "thing" I posted above is our ground fault tester. . . . . somewhere we have the neutral ground plug - I remember now, it looks like an extension cord plug that has been cut off the cord.  I think it's in the trailer "tool" box in the closet.  Oliver may also have supplied us with the neutral ground plug; my mind is just too full right now 😀

Nice to know the Honda is noticeably quieter than the Yamaha.  Now we just need to locate one.

Thank you all for putting up with my lame brain!

Edited February 4, 2021 by Ray and Susan Huff