Seal the rear Oliver Light (re-caulk?)

[Wayfinder]

Here's a pic of my rear Oliver light/sign.  Looks like someone either tried to caulk the edge, or it came from the factory like that in 2016.  Someone will tell me, I'm sure.

How should I tackle this?  Other than removing old caulk, should I seal from inside the sign or just use butyl tape, or use good caulk, from the outside?

I do have new butyl tape on hand, just in case I needed it.  I know there's a "caulk fight" going on in the threads too.  LOL  What are good options for fiberglass AND future removing of said caulk when old?

I know it's pretty easy to get to the sign from the inside, although I have not yet pealed back the insulation in the back cabinet.  I'm sure there is a thread or two on how to do this, though I have not yet found them.  Not sure how folks refer to the "Oliver light/sign".  I think some just refer to it as the "third light" or something like that.

Thanks again.  Top-shelf bourbon will be on its way soon enough to the most helpful.  LOL  Will deliver in person. (Bottle sealed naturally).

Picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uREFN1dLoUHr88q48

 

Chris

[csevel]

I'm dealing with the exact issue! Waiting on responses 

[rideandfly]

To be sure, have someone run water over the exterior of the lens while looking in the attic at the LED light housing to see where the water is coming in.

I used wood paint stir sticks cut in half to about 4" long each. Ground both ends to a dull edge and started digging the exterior caulking out around the Oliver lens. Once the caulk is dug out, the lens will come out. I did my project outside, so if it rained during caulk removal, used white electrical tape to temporarily reseal the lens in the hull. When the hull and lens areas where sealant goes are clean the lens is ready for installation.

Different sealants have been used to seal the lens. Some folks may use 3M sealants, butyl tape, and some may use silicone. I had a tough time removing the original sealant, not sure what sealant it was, but it was tough stuff.  Wanted to use something that was flexible and easy to remove next time, if it leaks again.

Oliver has used ASI 335 silicone for some applications. Make sure the sealant used is compatible with cleaner to be used. I used Starbrite Marine Silicone Sealant Adhesive for above and below waterline applications. Initially cleaned surfaces to be sealed with alcohol. For me, silicone is difficult to apply making it look good. Found I always wanted to apply too much silicone with too much excess making a real mess if care is not taken. Good to practice installation somewhere else first to find a good application technique, no matter what sealant is used.

Made this repair about 4 years ago without any leaks since. This silicone has not yellowed and still looks good.  We have traveled in many state in the lower 48 through heavy rain and hot deserts, without leaks.

[csevel]

So, RideandFly, you're saying that the lens can be removed once the caulking is removed, right?  How does it come out?  It looks like from the inside that it would have to slide out one side or the other from the grooved white bracket it's held in and there isn't any room for it to slide either way.  Do I have to dis-attach the wire going to it?  

[rideandfly]

Once caulking is removed, the lens lifts straight up out of the hull's recessed flange for the lens. Did not have to disconnect wiring and the LED light housing is secured to the interior of the hull on Hull #75 2015 LE2.

This is the only photo I have of the attic interior with complete LED Oliver sign housing. Normally I make photos of projects, but failed upload photos of this project for some reason.

After lens removal, installation, and re-caulking. Rainbow was icing on the cake!

[Wayfinder]

Okay. First small project completed. I was able to remove the remaining, old butyl tape, (so it appeared to be). Some was already missing from top and sides. I used a plastic scraper and tweezers to remove old. I would recommend plastic picks or bone tools, but could not find any local. 

I then carefully cleaned up the edge (gap around the Oliver lens) with asetone, careful not to touch the black sticker (vinyl) on the Oliver sign, in fear it would remove the back vinyl. I did use a marine-grade sealant, recommended by a sailor friend with fiberglass sea water boats. We'll see how it goes in coming years. I was not able to budge the Oliver lens (glass). The old butyl tape seemed to still be holding well. But it appeared to have been repaired before due to two different colors of sealant. One white (outer), one grey (inner-most).

It looks better than it did, and should not leak, not that it had started yet. The rear window also needed some love around the upper corners. There were unsealed gaps between the fiberglass and the window frame. I cleaned and sealed those small areas as well. 

Good luck with your projects. 

PS. DO NOT USE THE SEALANT I USED. 3M 5200 is TOO strong. 

Chris

Edited May 31, 2021 by Erika E

[csevel]

I'm tackling this too but am trying to get the lense out.. Its in there good.. Im done for the day and will continue tomorrow.  Taped it up with white duct tape.  The only good thing I can say is that I went ahead and peeled the black Oliver sticker off!  With the way I feel.. Im not ashamed. 

[Wayfinder]

Well, no matter the  brand, there will always be repairs.  Remember, earthquakes on wheels in the weather.  Good luck.  You can also order a new Oliver lens, from what I have heard, if you're not too mad at them.  LOL  

Hang in there.  A Jayco would have fallen apart by now you'd be gutting it from the inside.  LOL  

I lucked out and the previous owner kept this one under cover most of the time.

 

[SeaDawg]

3m 5200 is a powerful adhesive, and very, very difficult to remove in the future. It will require expensive solvents, and mechanical methods, and probably heat, as well. 3m 5200 is really meant for permanent bond, but doesn't flex as well as some other products so not as great as a sealant. We use it very, very selectively on the boat. Have never used it in the trailer .

There are other strong products I'd recommend,  that are more easily removed when it eventually fails, like Loctite Marine rapid dry.

Even 3m 4000 uv, maybe, but I don't know about the compatibility with the lens material. 

 

 

 

[Wayfinder]

I might pay the price for my decision in 5 years or so.  Or, when asked why I'm trading in this Ollie for a new one, I'll simply say the Oliver sign is "stuck".

 

Thanks!

[Wayfinder]

At least my sign still says "Oliver", and not a stop sign.  LOL  Poke poke.

[SeaDawg]

@Erika E, not criticizing your decision,  its just not one id l would recommend. 

You'll likely get 3 to five years. Maybe more.. Depending on how you travel/hull flex.  I just think 5200 is not the best choice, and lots of people look at these posts for years to come .

My reasoning is the lack of elasticity in 5200. And its incredible bonding, which we've  personally experienced,  even when the stuff cracks and leaks.  It is really really difficult to remove 

[Wayfinder]

This is Chris, I will make Erika take it off in five years.  I'll be too old then.  She's 10 years younger.  LOL

I blame my boss, he's the sailor who recommended it.  He's such a jokester.  Darn him.

[SeaDawg]

It's all good. I just don't want people to use 5200 indiscriminately.  It's a bear to remove,  from personal experience. 

My evening tonight. Get out, and camp. And, enjoy your new trailer.

 

[rideandfly]

7 hours ago, csevel said:

I'm tackling this too but am trying to get the lense out.. Its in there good.. Im done for the day and will continue tomorrow.  .

It took me about 8 hours to remove the previous sealant and sign. Guess I was lucky being able to remove the sign without damage to the sign and re-use it. Used several layers of micro fiber cloth under the modified wood paint stir stick tool to help lift the sign preventing surrounding fiberglass damage. Did not see any signs of epoxy under the sign on our 2015 LE2, but the sealant used to install the sign was very tough to remove. Also used white electrical tape to temporarily seal the lens with sealant removed. Did not want to pull off gel coat with stronger adhesive tape when tape was removed.

[topgun2]

14 hours ago, csevel said:

The only good thing I can say is that I went ahead and peeled the black Oliver sticker off!  With the way I feel.. Im not ashamed. 

 

There are several owners that over the years have changed the "Oliver" on that lens to say something else - in my case "Twist".  A local sign shop can easily make up a decal that will fit the space and say what you want.

Bill

[csevel]

So, this is where I'm at.  This took about an hour and a half total.  I used a box cutter to break the sealant and then a putty knife to drag along the edge to pry the lense off.  The lense did hairline crack in one spot about 1/2'' long but I think I can use flexseal tape to mend it... otherwise I'm probably out a week or so before Oliver will send me a new one.  My lense is held on to the surface opening by 3M double sided HD tape and then caulked all around.  

I'm not entirely sure if this is where my leak is stemming from as the caulking looked fairly plyable and contiguous.  Do I need to caulk those marker lights up there? They look completely void of any caulk. 

Now, the arduous task of cleaning all of the remaining sealant and try to get that tape off! 

[ScubaRx]

1 hour ago, csevel said:

So, this is where I'm at.  This took about an hour and a half total.  I used a box cutter to break the sealant and then a putty knife to drag along the edge to pry the lense off.  The lense did hairline crack in one spot about 1/2'' long but I think I can use flexseal tape to mend it... otherwise I'm probably out a week or so before Oliver will send me a new one.  My lense is held on to the surface opening by 3M double sided HD tape and then caulked all around.  

I'm not entirely sure if this is where my leak is stemming from as the caulking looked fairly plyable and contiguous.  Do I need to caulk those marker lights up there? They look completely void of any caulk. 

Now, the arduous task of cleaning all of the remaining sealant and try to get that tape off! 

 

 

You've done it the proper way. Believe me, I tried everything else before resorting to this method. My biggest problem with the project was we were on the road and in a forest service campground in Idaho. It took me all of one day. As Sherry said do not use 3M-5200. I used 3M-4200 mainly because that was what the factory was using at the time. I did not use butyl tape in my repair, only the 4200. I personally believe that the factory's use of the butyl tape to hold the lens in place while caulking led to the many failures I've heard about through the years. As you've discovered, the tape is not continuous and does not provide a leak-proof seal.  One tiny pinhole in the caulk where it joins the tape and you've got a leak!

If you decide to caulk the marker lights, do it from the inside. You can't see them and you would not have to be careful with the looks of the caulk.

[SeaDawg]

I don't think the factory ever used butyl tape for the lens, Scubarx, because butyl requires some type of mechanical fastening in addition to the butyl. (In absence of a trim ring with fasteners, we added screws to our continuous seal of butyl.)

I do recall the factory using the vhb tape that Celia encountered, and I agree, it's an ineffective way of fastening and sealing  the lens. It's a great fastener, but it doesn't seal the window, making caulk your only line of defense. Resulting in the failures you described. 

Using a good marine sealant/adhesive should work fine. That's how some boat fixed, trimless ports are fastened. It provides a good seal, and a good adhesion. 

Even those have to be refreshed over time, though. 

 

[csevel]

I imagine the VHB tape is used just to hold the lense in place while the sealant is applied.  I'll probably do the same and use this to do the caulking:

[Geronimo John]

What a PITA wet bedding during a boondock trip can be!  This past week, I also encountered what appears to be the same problem as yours.    

 With the help of my daughter (Allison), we were able quickly fix our two leakers without spending a dime.  The first one took us an hour to figure it out.  The fix took ten seconds.  The second window had the same issue, and also took another ten seconds to also fix.  Not saying it may be the same as your problem, but it is darn sure worth a 30 second look see!

In the below picture you will note the +/- 2 ½” gap in the operable window bottom track & water diverter (TWD).  The TWD is a black track that extends under both the operable and fixed windows.  It is about ½” wide, and has holes drilled through the material for water passage and seals against the sides of the aluminum window frame.  This seal conveys water that has gotten past the flanks of the operable window, and ports the water down to the window weeps.  An important function of this black thing is to distribute water flowing from the operable window side of the track to the weeps of that the sealed window weeps. 

As the picture shows, this section of the TWD has slid forward, allowing all the water to flow to only the weeps of the operable widow.

Use a pair of needle nose plyers, or a similar sized tool, and push the TWD back to the rear to meet the section from the back window edge.  Then close the window and spray water onto the side of the trailer and observe if your flooding issue has been corrected.   

[ScubaRx]

3 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

I don't think the factory ever used butyl tape for the lens...

 

You are correct, it is merely gray double sided tape. 

[SeaDawg]

The last few years, we've adopted loctite marine fast cure. Good adhesion, good elasticity,  for both the boat and the trailer. So far, so good.

And, it gets good ratings on Practical Sailor testing, which is why I  first considered it. Polyether, not polyurethane, and compatible with fiberglass, polycarbonate,  and most plastics.

If the lens is acrylic, which I really suspect it is, you would want to avoid polyurethane. 

[rideandfly]

3 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

The last few years, we've adopted loctite marine fast cure. Good adhesion, good elasticity,  for both the boat and the trailer. So far, so good.

And, it gets good ratings on Practical Sailor testing, which is why I  first considered it. Polyether, not polyurethane, and compatible with fiberglass, polycarbonate,  and most plastics.

If the lens is acrylic, which I really suspect it is, you would want to avoid polyurethane. 

Great advice! 

Thanks,

[csevel]

4 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

What a PITA wet bedding during a boondock trip can be!  This past week, I also encountered what appears to be the same problem as yours.    

 With the help of my daughter (Allison), we were able quickly fix our two leakers without spending a dime.  The first one took us an hour to figure it out.  The fix took ten seconds.  The second window had the same issue, and also took another ten seconds to also fix.  Not saying it may be the same as your problem, but it is darn sure worth a 30 second look see!

In the below picture you will note the +/- 2 ½” gap in the operable window bottom track & water diverter (TWD).  The TWD is a black track that extends under both the operable and fixed windows.  It is about ½” wide, and has holes drilled through the material for water passage and seals against the sides of the aluminum window frame.  This seal conveys water that has gotten past the flanks of the operable window, and ports the water down to the window weeps.  An important function of this black thing is to distribute water flowing from the operable window side of the track to the weeps of that the sealed window weeps. 

As the picture shows, this section of the TWD has slid forward, allowing all the water to flow to only the weeps of the operable widow.

Use a pair of needle nose plyers, or a similar sized tool, and push the TWD back to the rear to meet the section from the back window edge.  Then close the window and spray water onto the side of the trailer and observe if your flooding issue has been corrected.   

Thank you , very helpful except mine are tight and together.  I've cleaned that entire track!