Propane Leak issues - How to find the source - What alternative interim systems available meantime

[Boudicca908]

After a year of life’s distractions, I am finally able to take my Oliver on the road.  In February, I had the trailer serviced by a local service center in Southwest Florida, with the standard tire check, grease and lubrication, and checking the sealant on the shell.  No service was done on other systems.

I've been traveling since July 5th. Eleven days later, I'm trying to figure out how to ascertain the source of a suspected propane leak. 

On July 10th-11th I stopped at a friend's house, keeping the Norcold 3-way fridge cold with propane, but otherwise out of the trailer for 2 days. I noticed a bad smell when opening the door (more like dead animal than propane) but couldn’t find the source of smell. One day later while camping, with the fridge on AC, I noticed propane odor after making my morning meal. Early the following morning of the 16th, while I was in the shower naturally, an alarm went off. (hahaha)  It took me a minute in my morning stupor to realize it was the RVSafe unit. Then I realized I could distinctly smell propane. I had not used the Dometic stove yet that morning (the fridge was running on AC), but I HAD just been using my Truma Insta-Hot Water Heater.  I opened the windows, shut off the propane, and used the Maxx Fan to vent the trailer. I opened the top 2 drawers below the stove and I’m sure I could smell propane in there. 

Now I’m at my summer “job” in the middle of North Dakota, volunteering for US Fish & Wildlife, where my Oliver is my home — but I’m without my stove, furnace and water heater. It’s in the 40s at night — that’s okay for me, but I’m worried about freezing temps in the near future, with my city water connection. Needless to say, I feel hogtied. I’ve tried using dawn+water to look for bubbles on the one section of gas pipe that I can see under the Dometic Stove (didn’t see anything); I did this with the tank on, with the tank on plus stove lit, and with the tank off, but saw nothing. I looked at the back of the fridge (outside panel) and tried the soap test there also, to no avail. I have not checked out the Truma WH. I did not hear anything hissing at the propane tanks. My one tank emptied and I switched to the second, just a day or or so before this, and I was surprised, since they had been filled just before the trip. 

 

Mike, our excellent technician with the Oliver service department, isn’t allowed to verbally walk us through “how-to” on propane issues, due to liability. He sent me 3 recommended Service Centers — all an hour drive away, which I could do on my “day off” but I would need to sleep in my trailer overnight. I don’t know what I should expect in terms of this type of service — how long to expect it to take to track down the issue nor how long to repair, but obviously I’m in a jamb given my housing and my obligations at my job an hour from service locations. Mike confirmed that there is no ’shut off valve’ between the tanks and the trailer, so I can’t use my quick connect to cook on my grille either; I may have to use the 5 lb tanks, as long as they last. 

 

Questions: 

1) I saw mention of a “sniffer”. Is that a technical term? (joking) On Amazon (my quickest option, I think) they range from $18 to $70. Are there preferred brands, or preferred options that I should look for? How reliable are they? It might help me source the issue, but not fix it. 

2) Should I suspect the WH since I was using it just before the alarm? 

3) Should I suspect the fridge, since it was on propane while sitting for a few days? 

4) Are there any other suggestions that might help me approach a solution — both for short term living and ultimate fix? 

5) How long does it take to find propane leaks (probably .. "depends" but I'll ask anyway.) 

 

My lunch break is over, so I’m going to wrap this….  I'll check for replies as I can. 

Thanks in advance for any assistance. 

 

Oliver #1060, March 2022 production date. 

 

*** I searched the forum ... "propane leak" "propane stove leak" "dometic propane leak”, read through 6 pages of results, but haven't found a similar question or solution, but please point me in that direction if I missed an earlier thread for this. ***

[rich.dev]

Can’t help you with your leak, but if you paste “site:olivertraveltrailers.com forum propane leak” without the quotes into Google search you will have better results than searching the Oliver forum.

[Boudicca908]

1 hour ago, rich.dev said:

Can’t help you with your leak, but if you paste “site:olivertraveltrailers.com forum propane leak” without the quotes into Google search you will have better results than searching the Oliver forum.

Thanks! I've been wondering, because my search efforts have not been up to par on this forum. And I just know there is information there! 

[SeaDawg]

@Boudicca908, you are wise to shut off the propane at the tank til you figure it all out.  Even a tiny leak is dangerous.

Do you have electricity at your campsite? If not, your 5 lb bottle and your Blackstone should allow you to heat water for birdbaths, and cook for several days, at least. Unfortunately,  your Truma water heater won't run on electricity.  The old school 6 gallon water heaters could run on electric, so you could heat the tank with a generator, and get enough hot water for a shower and wash a few dishes.

You have a good head on your shoulders, and looks like you planned ahead with some good gear. Having the backup 5 lb tank (refillable) was an excellent idea. Worst comes to worst, you can always remove a 20 lb tank from the trailer, and connect it to the Blackstone directly. 

Do you have a generator, also? Are you able to buy (or borrow) an induction hotplate or electric kettle? A small electric heater provides enough warmth to take the "frost" out of the air. Running the fridge on genset electric a few times a day could keep that going, but you'll use a bit of gasoline...

I'd suspect one or more of your gas connections could have a small leak. Gas leaks are much more common at the connection fittings than in the line. I'd start at the regulator, and work my way back, if you can. You should be able to see the gas connection with the water heater by removing the lower outside panel. I don't know much about the truma w/h, as I've never seen one. 

A competent rv shop should be able to get you fixed up in one day, if you can get a "first thing in the morning " appointment.  Or, at the least be able to diagnose it in one day, so  you could return to the cg and continue camping in a hard-shell tent/Oliver, without propane,  til they get parts. Or, maybe one of the three centers has a mobile tech? It's certainly worth asking.

At least you have some good tent camping experience, so you're not in dire straits. You'll manage, though not the luxury experience you were hoping for. 

It's frustrating in the middle of (beautiful) nowhere. Hang in there.

Here's  a search result for "propane leak" in our forum. The quotes make the search engine look for that phrase.

https://olivertraveltrailers.com/forums/search/?q="Propane leak"&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy&search_and_or=or

 

 

[Boudicca908]

@SeaDawg thanks for the great feedback and ideas.

I had a headache the morning the alarm went off, and that's a rarity for me (maybe once every 10-15 years) so I took it as a warning. Luckily I do have shore power on the days I'm parked for my volunteer job with US Fish & Wildlife -- but the idea was to get out camping and exploring on my days off (up to a week at a time) so that's frustrating. And after Labor Day the plan is to be on the road, but as you say, a hard-shelled tent is better than my favorite canvas side any day. 

Did I say 5 lb tanks? D'oh! What I brought as backup is (4) 1 lb tanks, the non-refillable type. However, I can buy a 5 lb tank and while I'm working they will refill it for me!  

I do not have a generator (yet). I need to learn a lot more before I buy one.

I must learn to use (and manage) my lithium batteries. Boondocking is my goal, but I have so much to learn. Trial by Fire might get me there sooner than I imagined. Every time I begin to read the manual, I feel lost before page 2. I feel like I need to take a course in electrical systems .... I need to check the videos in Oliver University again, and maybe other sites. All suggestions are welcome. 

Small electric heaters sound tempting.... any favorites?  I was thinking about buying a decent moist heating pad, just to take the chill off, like this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008UZT4YU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1  -- it has 3 temp settings, plus an automatic shut-off after 25 minutes (you don't have to hold the button to keep it on). My friend, who is a massage therapist, owns this model and highly recommends it. 

I've also thought about induction hotplates; I have friends who use them exclusively (in small apartments, overseas). I'm trying not to gather too much gear, though. I'm going to try to make my grill work for the time being, and I love cooking outdoors (except when the mosquitoes come out). 

After reading all the possible gas leak areas (I had just switched to the other tank, for instance, and a thread mentioned a leak at the tank setting off the alarm), and then thinking about the toxicity, I called Riverwood RV Service Center in Mandan ND and they were very accommodating -- they are going to fit me in first thing on Thursday (the other place was booked for 3 weeks) and try to service before the end of the day if possible. I had to empty the fridge of course (I'm very lucky to have a fridge here on site to use). I moved my latex mattress from the curb side to the street side, to make access to the water pumps easier, for me and them, if they have to dig around. I'm trusting that I don't have to empty the entire trailer, and that things will be safe while it's in service. 

It's true that my bike-camping experience has come in handy, many times. I can get by with very bare minimum and still be happy. And even with some issues to handle, I really really love my Oliver. 

I'll update as things progress. 

[2008RN]

When you get it fixed, please post the results.  I think it would of benifit to the community.

[SeaDawg]

Great that you have electricity.  You can at least run your fridge on electricity. 

I recommend duxtop on Amazon for an induction cooktop. Even the cheapest one, bought "used, like new," gives great results. I think mine was $45 or so. I really like mine. Even after they fix your gas issue, you'll enjoy the burner. Faster than gas, and no propane use.

For a space heater, we have used some random Westinghouse or other brand for years, when we have electricity.  Lots of folks recommend Vornado. I think, truly, that's the best, but as long as the unit is ul listed, and has tipover protection, and over heat cutoff, you're fine, imo. Put it on the floor, facing the bed, on low at night, heat rises. You'll be good to go. (Unless you travel with a frisky pet. Then, top of stovetop may be better.) Or, get a mini oil filled heater. 

There's a bunch to see around Mandan, for you, so it can turn into an exploration day. 

 

[SeaDawg]

1 hour ago, Boudicca908 said:

had a headache the morning the alarm went off, and that's a rarity for me (maybe once every 10-15 years) so I took it as a warning

Yes. Keep the gas turned off. I also think that's a warning. 

 

[John E Davies]

I highly recommend this compact $50 heater, I can’t comment on longevity but my Vornado fan failed right after the warranty ended with a bad bearing. 

 

Dreo Space Heaters for Indoor Use, Atom One Portable Heater with 70°Oscillation, 1500W PTC Electric Heater with Thermostat,

It is silent, has a remote, and most importantly a digital thermostat, so once you find a temp you like, you can easily repeat the setting you prefer, and it has very precise heat regulation (narrow dead band) unlike the heaters that have knobs. It provides gentle wide-area heat without drafts.

I think you will love it. “Park” the fan in the center position by unplugging while it is oscillating, and store it in the cardboard box it shipped in when you don’t need it.

If you get a Clam shelter, buy the wind panels and the heater works beautifully inside there. I like the smallest Clam.

Good luck on the gas leak!

John Davies

Spokane WA

[SeaDawg]

@Boudicca908, good luck, tomorrow.  We'll be thinking about you.

[Rivernerd]

On 7/18/2023 at 12:33 PM, Boudicca908 said:

I saw mention of a “sniffer”.

They are called combustible gas detectors.  The best ones have both visual and audible alerts. 

I like this one, available from Amazon for $32, if you can get it delivered where you are:

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Detector-Portable-Combustible-Explosive/dp/B07FSVCSSL/ref=asc_df_B07FSVCSSL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=343320284310&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1399517356399337030&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-656039150139&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=68608912305&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=343320284310&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1399517356399337030&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-656039150139

Combustible gas detectors can enable you to find leaks in places you can' reach with a soap+H2O solution.  The closer you get to the leak, the louder the alarm (if properly calibrated), and the greater the number of LEDs lit on the visual display.

On 7/18/2023 at 12:33 PM, Boudicca908 said:

Should I suspect the WH since I was using it just before the alarm? 

Yes.  The propane line that feeds the water heater runs from the forward propane tanks to the aft location of the water heater.  The leak could be at the water heater, but you might smell it along the path of the propane line.  Also, the water heater is easier to access (from the outside) than the interior area under the stove.  I would try a soap and water solution now to try and rule that out, even before you get a combustible gas detector.  It could be as simple as a loose flare fitting at the Truma water heater.

I would also daub a 50/50 dish soap+H2O solution along the path of the copper propane line as it runs underneath the trailer to the water heater, and to the rear quick connect fitting, with the line pressurized (by having the propane tank valves open).  You may find a leak along that line.

Good luck, and please report what you find!

[Boudicca908]

Brief and incomplete update, because I have to report to duty in 5 minutes:

On 7/19/2023 at 12:28 AM, 2008RN said:

When you get it fixed, please post the results.  I think it would of benifit to the community.

I will definitely let the forum community know what happens.   

On 7/19/2023 at 12:34 AM, SeaDawg said:

Great that you have electricity.  You can at least run your fridge on electricity. 

I recommend duxtop on Amazon for an induction cooktop. Even the cheapest one, bought "used, like new," gives great results. I think mine was $45 or so. I really like mine. Even after they fix your gas issue, you'll enjoy the burner. Faster than gas, and no propane use.

For a space heater, we have used some random Westinghouse or other brand for years, when we have electricity.  Lots of folks recommend Vornado. I think, truly, that's the best, but as long as the unit is ul listed, and has tipover protection, and over heat cutoff, you're fine, imo. Put it on the floor, facing the bed, on low at night, heat rises. You'll be good to go. (Unless you travel with a frisky pet. Then, top of stovetop may be better.) Or, get a mini oil filled heater. 

There's a bunch to see around Mandan, for you, so it can turn into an exploration day. 

 

The small brass tip on the regulator that came with my Blackstone came OFF with the propane bottle when I detached it yesterday -- and yes, all the propane left in that bottle escaped. I had to wait for it to settle down and was thankful I had needle-nose type pliers to reach the nut and remove it from the bottle. I'll reach out to Blackstone about that; the brass tip screws into a 'silver' colored metal section and I see no propane tape or anything in that joint; not sure yet if it will go back together and hold the pressure. RATS. So... I'll probably end up buying a cooktop. I brought food to cook that doesn't work on the grill. Glad I have a truck that can handle all this equipment I'm adding. 

I went to the ND Heritage Museum for much of the day yesterday, plus hit the Costco for fuel and sundries. 

On 7/20/2023 at 1:18 AM, Rivernerd said:

They are called combustible gas detectors.  The best ones have both visual and audible alerts. 

I like this one, available from Amazon for $32, if you can get it delivered where you are:

https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Detector-Portable-Combustible-Explosive/dp/B07FSVCSSL/ref=asc_df_B07FSVCSSL/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=343320284310&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1399517356399337030&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-656039150139&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=68608912305&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=343320284310&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1399517356399337030&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029558&hvtargid=pla-656039150139

Combustible gas detectors can enable you to find leaks in places you can' reach with a soap+H2O solution.  The closer you get to the leak, the louder the alarm (if properly calibrated), and the greater the number of LEDs lit on the visual display.

Yes.  The propane line that feeds the water heater runs from the forward propane tanks to the aft location of the water heater.  The leak could be at the water heater, but you might smell it along the path of the propane line.  Also, the water heater is easier to access (from the outside) than the interior area under the stove.  I would try a soap and water solution now to try and rule that out, even before you get a combustible gas detector.  It could be as simple as a loose flare fitting at the Truma water heater.

I would also daub a 50/50 dish soap+H2O solution along the path of the copper propane line as it runs underneath the trailer to the water heater, and to the rear quick connect fitting, with the line pressurized (by having the propane tank valves open).  You may find a leak along that line.

Good luck, and please report what you find!

Thank you for this. I think it's probably worth having this tool, even if I don't plan to 'fix' an issue on my own. 

Nutshell: they had the trailer 8 hours and didn't definitively confirm the source/s of the leak. They DID confirm there is a leak with a drop test that "held for 7 or 11 or even 20 minutes and then suddenly dropped."  More later. 

[Boudicca908]

Another update: 

1) the Truma WH has a 2-yr warranty;

2) Riverwood RV Service was in contact with Mike; it seems they all suspect the WH to be the faulty device. They’re ordering a replacement. Fingers crossed! 
 

 

[Boudicca908]

No news is not always good news.... 

On Friday 7/21 morning, Riverwood RV asked for my purchase date; they already had the hull # and VIN, and things sounded fairly positive for some action. I reached out to Mike at Oliver and he confirmed the prognosis (Truma WH propane leak). He also gave me the phone number for Truma, since it was their warranty that would cover.  Then I phoned Truma; they gave me my case number but were not willing to discuss much else, "because it's Riverwood's case". The person on the phone explained that if my case involves "Servicing Parts", Truma requires a trained and certified technician; full replacement can be done by a non-certified technician. In the end, Truma said that they were just waiting on Riverwood to provide information. This began to make me wonder, because Riverwood mentioned on Thursday that they hadn't worked with Truma. A followup call to Riverwood did not produce any information. I explained, I'm trying not to harass them, but I'm not feeling great about imposing on the intern next door, whose fridge and freezer and shower I'm using (it's US Fish & Wildlife property, not the intern's trailer, but still). Saturday I called during my lunch break and Riverwood said the service tech went home early that day. Yesterday I sat tight.

This morning I called and got an earful of "it takes time" and "we had to register with them as a service center" and was told not to call Mike back because "it's out of his hands". They denied that they were having to go through training before my case would be approved. They denied that there was an argument about whether it might only need parts replacement (though I have to wonder). I certainly understand that he cannot estimate timelines when he hasn't worked with Truma -- how could he know about their potential turn-around time? I asked if he thought it could be a month (I'm here another 6 weeks) and he scoffed, but with global issues for parts and components, I'm not sure that I'll be here still if/when a replacement is shipped. Then he said my only option "would be to take it to another service center, and that's not going to happen." ?!? I asked why is that? He said, "because we do 80% of the service around here." 

Does anyone have experience with Truma customer service timelines for replacement?

Truma's website has an option to find dealer/partners and I'll be darned if there isn't one just the other side of Bismarck from Riverwood.  Hmmm. I called and inquired about their schedule (4 openings in August), and how much time it takes (probably a few hours to diagnose) and the warranty situation ("likely a week to 10 days for Truma, all by email, to approve warranty coverage") and then he said that sometimes people just go ahead and make the repairs -- meaning that they have pieces fitted locally for lines or hoses, if it's that simple, and then they try to submit for coverage on their own.  I need to think about this. Maybe I should ask him for a price to diagnose, so I can decide what to do from there. 

I need more caffeine. 

[Rivernerd]

3 hours ago, Boudicca908 said:

Does anyone have experience with Truma customer service timelines for replacement?

No personal experience, but yours is not the first post on this forum recounting this type of run-around from Truma. 

That is why I own, and am not afraid to use, a combustible gas detector.  If I encounter issues with the Truma tankless water heater in our Elite II that I can't diagnose or repair myself, my plan is to simply replace it with a Fogatti/Rec Pro, available from Amazon.

[SeaDawg]

I'd call Truma, and ask them for advice. 

[Boudicca908]

34 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

I'd call Truma, and ask them for advice. 

I tried earlier today and they weren't open for business. So I called Mike and asked him for guidance with the issue. He suggested he'd call Riverwood and figure out what is going on, and get back to me and -- THANKS MIKE! -- Riverwood has a replacement Truma Water Heater being shipped out today or tomorrow. This is EXCELLENT news and I want to credit Mike and Oliver's care. 

Also, I will be posting a followup in my other thread regarding my solution to the Blackstone Griddle problem (it was easy to fix, but not obvious). 

Thank you to everyone here for all the help and encouragement. I'm hoping that by next week I'll be able to use my Oliver for boondocking, as I intended. 

[SeaDawg]

I am so very happy for you!

Another score for Mike (and Jason) at Oliver. They are amazing. 

 

[Boudicca908]

A partial update: 

1) Truma actually provided excellent turnaround on this. The delay was on the service center side. Truma even called me after I submitted a question via email contact; rather than emailing me back, they called and that was really nice. In fact, they called to answer my question, and then a few days later they called again because they thought of something else they wanted to relay to me. Then they sent me a little pigtail that goes with the optional electric heater to use during cold weather. It arrived today. So I will say Gold Stars for Truma. 

2) The propane regulator and lines up front were replaced first, before the WH was replaced -- just as an FYI.

3) After I brought my Oliver 'home' I waited a day to turn on the propane; I was too tired. So the next day, in the morning, I turned it on and used the cooktop to make breakfast, and I used the WH to wash dishes and hands in the evening. Then, about midnight, the alarm went off again. So OFF went the propane and WH and I've been without again since 8/3/23. 

4) I ordered the combustible gas detector; it's supposed to arrive today or tomorrow. 

5) I bought a small electric space heater by Dreo that I haven't tested out yet (thanks @John E Davies for the recommendation) and an induction cooktop by Duxtop that has been great to use on foul weather days (thanks @SeaDawg for that idea). 

6) I tested the alarms (both of them -- the smoke/co alarm above the bed, and the co/lp alarm below the dinette) to train my ear to know the difference in the sounds and lights etc. I HIGHLY recommend this to anyone who isn't familiar with the different sounds, because it always seems to bleeping bleep off in the middle of deep sleep and I can't say what the heck it was doing before I pushed that SILENCE button.

7) Then, last week, it went off a third time. With the propane off, the WH off and in the middle of the night again. This time I had my wits about me and it was definitely the LP alarm and not the CO alarm. It went back to green after I silenced it and opened the windows wide. And slept in 58 degrees. hahaha. I love sleeping in cold air, anyway, so no complaints there!

I reopened or created a new ticket with Oliver and I'll be visiting Hohenwald before I go home in late October. I would really like to know though, if I could use my propane before that time, since I'll be heading to higher elevations and colder temps before I get there. I'd rather not have to winterize -- but I'm preparing myself for it, in case. I spoke to Mike briefly about the potential for faulty alarms; he conceded that there isn't really a way to test if it's the alarm itself. It could also be a problem elsewhere, or with the WH installation. Who knows. Maybe my 'sniffer' will help out. 

I have just 3.5 weeks left here in ND, where I could receive a package. Then I'll be mobile and moving west and east and all over the map, mostly boondocking without power or water. If I winterize, my water will be limited to what I carry in the TV. 

I'll post more after the sniffer arrives and I do some testing. 

Thanks to all for good advice and help. I'm learning, and I love my Oliver. 

[SeaDawg]

If your propane tanks were truly  turned off, and no use for several days, I would assume an addtional issue with a faulty lp alarm system. 

If I were camping  in ND , through October,  I'd definitely want my propane, and heat. 

Propane alarms are supposed to be good for five years, max, but many don't make it that long. 

I'd replace it. 

Did you smell any propane, this time?

[SeaDawg]

13 minutes ago, Boudicca908 said:

tested the alarms (both of them -- the smoke/co alarm above the bed, and the co/lp alarm below the dinette) to train my ear to know the difference in the sounds and lights etc. I HIGHLY recommend this to anyone who isn't familiar with the different sounds, because it always seems to bleeping bleep off in the middle of deep sleep and I can't say what the heck it was doing before I pushed that SILENCE button.

And, that was a wise thing to do.

[Boudicca908]

5 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

Did you smell any propane, this time?

I didn't smell anything, but it was definitely 'stuffy' in the Oliver.  I do have a composting toilet; a friend suggested that it could be the culprit, but 2 of 3 times it went off when propane was on, and last time with it off for days. It's a conundrum! 

EDIT: my Oliver is just a bit over a year old and the alarm says replace by Sept 2026, but now I'm suspicious of it. 

[SeaDawg]

Just for grins, try cleaning your lp sensors. Vacuum the face. Wipe it off with a microfiber cloth, after. 

If your propane tanks are shut off, you should not be  getting alarms.

Do you travel with a pet? Does it sleep near the alarm? Their "farts" can set off the alarm, as well. 

 

[SeaDawg]

You can check the composting toilet. I don't have one in the trailer, but I have one in the barn. 

Make sure it's venting properly. 

[Boudicca908]

7 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

try cleaning your lp sensors

I'll do that. 

No pet. A friend's pet sets her alarm off all the time. :0

I'll check the toilet with the sniffer. :-D  Will be interesting!