Flipping the cupboard door - Step 1

[Peggie]

I asked a while back about flipping the cupboard door above stove. With the help of a friend we took the door off. Because of the age of my trailer, other doors may not be mounted the same way. But here's what mine looks like. The thin strands are the clear calking around the door. The thicker ones appear to be a thick adhesive. The fellow who helped me does not believe it is butyl tape. The door has some pieces of double faced tape on it also. I'm guessing they tried to mount it with the double face tape and it wasn't enough so the added the adhesive. The picture of the opening showes the interesting square corner.

Sweet Olivia 2014 Hull #53

Twin bed LEII

[topgun2]

Sure doesn't look like butyl to me.

Assume that you intent is to simply rotate the assembly 180 degrees and re-mount and then place some type of support to keep the door in the up position when opened?

Bill

[Peggie]

37 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Sure doesn't look like butyl to.

Assume that you intent is to simply rotate the assembly 180 degrees and re-mount and then place some type of support to keep the door in the up position when opened?

Bill

Yes. That is exactly what I want to do.

[SNY SD UP]

Peggy,

Did you use to use razorblades to cut/remove the calking?  I have found that these work well and they do not hurt the fiberglass.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TVM7W35?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Have you decided how to hold it up when open?  I do not have a lot of experience, but I have a lot of ideas. 
I am seeing a chrome/stainless steel magnetic disk (aligned with the with front of metal latch) with adhesive on the back that would adhere to the fiberglass ceiling.  So when you lift it up, it would catch to the magnet.  Like with all magnets it would need to touch most if not all of the metal latch to hold well enough to not come crashing down on your head.  I do not believe this would not be too b'ugly.  Some of the marine-type (SeaDawg, Are your ears perking?) folks may chime in here with resources/experience. 

Bryan

[SNY SD UP]

If you had access to the inside of the FG ceiling, you could attach a (STRONG) magnet inside that was aligned to the cabinet latch, and it would hold like magic.
    (I will now go out and look at 'SNY SD UP' to see if that ceiling area is accessible from the upper inside of the cabinet area)  ruminating on this for a while. 
We did this to hold the bathroom mirror door open against the exterior of the front dinette cabinet.  One magnet on the door the other aligned with one magnet on the inside of the access area under front dinette cushion.

Bryan

Remember with (2) magnets, if you want them to attract, make sure N-S are reversed, if you want them to repel align N-N...  Don't ask me how I know.
"Hey Bryan, the bathroom door is not holding like it should"... 

[Peggie]

47 minutes ago, SNY SD UP said:

Peggy,

Did you use to use razorblades to cut/remove the calking?  I have found that these work well and they do not hurt the fiberglass.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TVM7W35?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Have you decided how to hold it up when open?  I do not have a lot of experience, but I have a lot of ideas. 
I am seeing a chrome/stainless steel magnetic disk (aligned with the with front of metal latch) with adhesive on the back that would adhere to the fiberglass ceiling.  So when you lift it up, it would catch to the magnet.  Like with all magnets it would need to touch most if not all of the metal latch to hold well enough to not come crashing down on your head.  I do not believe this would not be too b'ugly.  Some of the marine-type (SeaDawg, Are your ears perking?) folks may chime in here with resources/experience. 

Bryan

The little plastic scrapers are exactly what I started out with. When my friend came over he btought a couple of much heavier duty plastic scrapers.

I don't know yet what I'll use to hold it up. I'll start out with a hook on the ceiling and a loop around the door handle. I don't believe it would be a good idea to drill into the door so the hinge would need to be held on with double faced adhesive.

[Peggie]

33 minutes ago, SNY SD UP said:

If you had access to the inside of the FG ceiling, you could attach a (STRONG) magnet inside that was aligned to the cabinet latch, and it would hold like magic.
    (I will now go out and look at 'SNY SD UP' to see if that ceiling area is accessible from the upper inside of the cabinet area)  ruminating on this for a while. 
We did this to hold the bathroom mirror door open against the exterior of the front dinette cabinet.  One magnet on the door the other aligned with one magnet on the inside of the access area under front dinette cushion.

Bryan

Remember with (2) magnets, if you want them to attract, make sure N-S are reversed, if you want them to repel align N-N...  Don't ask me how I know.
"Hey Bryan, the bathroom door is not holding like it should"... 

I looked at the cupboard after reading your post and there is no way to reach where the second magnet would need to go. Unfortunately.

[SeaDawg]

Bryan's idea of magnets is definitely a possibility.  Check the existing latch and see if a magnet holds. If not, a magnet could be glued to the inside of the door.

Our small boat ports are heavy bronze. We hold them open with a hook and small chain. You could hold those doors with a lightweight cord, attached to the latch or the door iself with vhb tape, and a hook above. 

Big port on our boat is held open with a gas strut. Not exactly sure where you could attach it, (might have to epoxy in a block)  but they can be purchased pretty reasonably, for light duty. 

I'll think about this one a bit, after dinner.

 

 

[SeaDawg]

I was thinking about the baggage clips on some of the rental rvs we've delivered. Some are friction, others are spring loaded "catches."

Seriously inexpensive,  even if you go with the more durable and better quality camco catches. And, unobtrusive, in size and color. And, easy to install.

In my Elite, I'd probably have to mount them on the ceiling. And, I'd use command strip or double sided tape. Those lightweight plexi doors should be easy with these. Open with a thumb, and flip the catch open with a finger. $8 for 5 of the copycats. $10 for 2 if the Camco.

[SNY SD UP]

Peggy,

You are correct, I just visited SNY SD UP, and there is no way to access the inside of the ceiling from the inside of the cabinet.
And with the molded ceiling curve to cabinet, that does not allow for any type of a magnet to flush fit to the existing metal latch mechanism.

Maybe just change the one you have removed, and work thru how you will create a way to keep it up while accessing the inside of the cabinet.   

Still ruminating on this.

[SNY SD UP]

Peggy,

Are you looking at something like a spring loaded scissor piston hinge to lift the door, when unlatched?

Bryan

[ScubaRx]

1 hour ago, SNY SD UP said:

And with the molded ceiling curve to cabinet, that does not allow for any type of a magnet to flush fit to the existing metal latch mechanism.

Still ruminating on this.

While you’re chewing your cud remember that good quality stainless steel has very little attraction to a magnet. 

[SNY SD UP]

6 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

While you’re chewing your cud remember that good quality stainless steel has very little attraction to a magnet. 

Steve,

And these are the important & pertinent comments by others on this forum that will fill-in for my lack of knowledge.  

Bryan

[ScubaRx]

3 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

Peggy,

I am seeing a chrome/stainless steel magnetic disk (aligned with the with front of metal latch) with adhesive on the back that would adhere to the fiberglass ceiling.  So when you lift it up, it would catch to the magnet.  Like with all magnets it would need to touch most if not all of the metal latch to hold well enough to not come crashing down on your head.  I do not believe this would not be too b'ugly.  Some of the marine-type (SeaDawg, Are your ears perking?) folks may chime in here with resources/experience. 

Bryan

In the very oldest Oliver's (2008-2009) the cabinets had two doors that slid on tracks rather than opening up or down. Mine would never stay closed during travel, so I installed magnets on the back of each of the sliding doors to hold them in place when properly closed. During the build of our current Hull #050 upon discovering the way the cabinet doors operated, I suggested to the then sales manager that they should open up rather than down. He didn't agree and that was the one thing I could not convince him was a bad idea. The idea of magnets holding them up is the best alternative to the way they are currently mounted that I have seen.

[Peggie]

The Ceiling is curved where a latch might be most conveniently put. The picture is what I think I will do. At least right away. The hook is at the closest  flat point on the ceiling. I'll just put a small decorative chain on the door handle and continue to look at hinge options.

 

[Steve Morris]

15 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

I was thinking about the baggage clips on some of the rental rvs we've delivered. Some are friction, others are spring loaded "catches."

Seriously inexpensive,  even if you go with the more durable and better quality camco catches. And, unobtrusive, in size and color. And, easy to install.

In my Elite, I'd probably have to mount them on the ceiling. And, I'd use command strip or double sided tape. Those lightweight plexi doors should be easy with these. Open with a thumb, and flip the catch open with a finger. $8 for 5 of the copycats. $10 for 2 if the Camco.

Those are exactly the type latch I added to the exterior doors on our teardrop, to prevent them from bashing open or closed on windy days. Easy to deploy, low profile when not in use, and nothing needs to be added to the door.

Without going outside, I can't remember how close the cabinet door would be to the ceiling to know if these would work on the Oliver.

[SeaDawg]

Considering how easy they are to operate, I  might be tempted to try the camco type catches, first, with command strips or two sided tape.  I was trying to think of one-handed operation.

Seadog marine has beautiful stainless door catches, but they are extremely pricey ($65 to $85 each) and probably too powerful for the thin plexi doors, anyway.

Sugatsune makes some marine grade plastic sealed magnet catches that are pretty white, fairly strong,  low profit, and coupled with a flat piece of galvanized steel (even a big  washer "might" do the trick), or opposite pole magnet, on the inside of the door . At only $6 , I might be tempted to experiment with one. (Available from many cabinet shops, too. Probably amazon.)

I'm still happy with my sliders in my 2008. I don't use magnets to keep them closed. I just slide them so the rubber grommets in the thumb holes match up, and friction keeps them closed.  However, I do like the flipup concept, so, who knows? We might look into it "someday."

Back in 2008/9, when Oliver was designing the first gen elite II trailers, we talked with Jim Oliver about liftup cabinet doors, as well as getting the fridge a bit off the floor, and a few other improvements.  Neither of those suggestions made it to the design, either, as mentioned by Steve. As we can see now, it's easier to do with full overlay wood cabinets.

Still looking forward to seeing the results of your project Peggie. You're a pioneer!

 

 

 

 

[Peggie]

17 hours ago, SNY SD UP said:

Peggy,

Are you looking at something like a spring loaded scissor piston hinge to lift the door, when unlatched?

Bryan

This is what was on the cupboards in my last trailer. I don't know what they're called. But I hope to find something like it.

[Peggie]

I'm overwhelmed with the outporing of suggestions. Thank you, Thank you! Fortunately this page is saved and I'll be able to refer back to it. There is still a lot of scraping to do before the door can go back on. There's probably a solvent that would work but they're so often toxic that I don't want to use it in this small space. Once the wall and the door are prepped I'll take the rubbery stuff that was used to stick it on originally to Home Depot and ask if they know what it is. Then it will be time to figure out how to work around these curved walls. 

[SeaDawg]

30 minutes ago, Peggie said:

This is what was on the cupboards in my last trailer. I don't know what they're called. But I hope to find something like it.

That's typically called a spring upswing hinge, I think. (We have super heavy duty ones supporting heavy hatches on our boat. Replacements for ours are really tough to find. )

You may or may not find something suitable on hafele or rockler, for light doors, with a "frameless" installation. Without the wood frame cabinet, you'd have to add epoxied blocks, or wood cabinet dividers (that's a pita to construct, with the curved hull)   to support them. I'd also be concerned if you tried to use only one, because of the "twist" in the lightweight door. Most of those hinges have a lot if strength/force . I have to use both arms to bring down the hatches on spring hinges. 

Proud of you for tackling this when Oliver never did. Keep us posted!

[SeaDawg]

You may be able to soften that caulk with a hair dryer on low. Don't use a heat gun. You could deform the fiberglass. 

You could also try mineral spirits (without the hair dryer, obviously. ) .  Run the overhead fan on exhaust, and open the windows. 

Where is the caulk you are still attempting to remove? I'm assuming the stuff in your first photo is what you've already taken out with plastic razor blades,?

[topgun2]

1 hour ago, Peggie said:

Once the wall and the door are prepped I'll take the rubbery stuff that was used to stick it on originally to Home Depot and ask if they know what it is.

Or, 

you could give a call/email to the Oliver Service department and ask what they used back when your Hull was born.

Bill

[Mountainman198]

Peggy, I like your plan to flip the door.  I understand your desire to find a permanent solution to hold it open.  Interim to finding your final solution, something like a command strip toggle hanger might work.  The toggle can swing down to 90 degrees from its point of attachment on the ceiling and may be able to hook to the cabinet door loop handle.  Command strips are strong (these hold 2 lbs) and most importantly, remove without damage to the gelcoat once you find your final solution.  This is what I would use until the final result is found.  Good luck.

 

FYI...I have seen them in blister packs at Walmart.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Command-Medium-Hanging-Adhesive-Organizational/dp/B00U82D03O/ref=sr_1_8?crid=HX2SMGYE8E7Z&keywords=command+strip+large+toggle+hooks&qid=1701652055&sprefix=command+strip+large+toggle+hooks%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-8

[Peggie]

10 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

That's typically called a spring upswing hinge, I think. (We have super heavy duty ones supporting heavy hatches on our boat. Replacements for ours are really tough to find. )

You may or may not find something suitable on hafele or rockler, for light doors, with a "frameless" installation. Without the wood frame cabinet, you'd have to add epoxied blocks, or wood cabinet dividers (that's a pita to construct, with the curved hull)   to support them. I'd also be concerned if you tried to use only one, because of the "twist" in the lightweight door. Most of those hinges have a lot if strength/force . I have to use both arms to bring down the hatches on spring hinges. 

Proud of you for tackling this when Oliver never did. Keep us posted!

The idea of a hinge is looking more and more remote. The hook on the ceiling might become permanent.

Thank you for the kind words.

[Peggie]

6 hours ago, Mountainman198 said:

Peggy, I like your plan to flip the door.  I understand your desire to find a permanent solution to hold it open.  Interim to finding your final solution, something like a command strip toggle hanger might work.  The toggle can swing down to 90 degrees from its point of attachment on the ceiling and may be able to hook to the cabinet door loop handle.  Command strips are strong (these hold 2 lbs) and most importantly, remove without damage to the gelcoat once you find your final solution.  This is what I would use until the final result is found.  Good luck.

 

FYI...I have seen them in blister packs at Walmart.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Command-Medium-Hanging-Adhesive-Organizational/dp/B00U82D03O/ref=sr_1_8?crid=HX2SMGYE8E7Z&keywords=command+strip+large+toggle+hooks&qid=1701652055&sprefix=command+strip+large+toggle+hooks%2Caps%2C164&sr=8-8

The command strip would absolutely be suited to hang the door from. I already have a hook that I'll use, or at least start out with. It's one of those suction things. Bigger and more intrusive to the eye than a command strip, but on hand.