Charging Ollie With Multiple PowerSources, split from flex panels thread

[jd1923]

The heat shrink tubing was delivered yesterday, so I got the shunt and shorty cable installed today. When I upgrade to Lithium, I'll likely come up with a better location for the shunt, but for now is sits on the battery. I added a heavy plastic wire loom on the other battery cable to fully isolate the shunt terminal.

[topgun2]

Interesting!

But, what is that white stuff on the ground?😇

How's the shunt working for ya?

Bill

[jd1923]

7 minutes ago, topgun2 said:

Interesting! But, what is that white stuff on the ground?😇
How's the shunt working for ya? Bill

Yeah Bill, we got 3" of snow on Sunday and usually melts quickly, but it's been cold (everywhere right)! We're at 5,400 FT up here, and it looks like another 3" by the morning.

Love reading simple battery status w/o craning my neck to see the Blue Sky panel mounted at knee height. The Bluetooth range sucks (more comments on this above). @Ronbrink and @MAX Burner concur that max range is 10 to 20 FT max. I'm good for now, but might add the Victron smart dongle, that according to members on other RV forums, broadcasts a stronger signal. The dongle is $40, a (required?) Victron connector cable and tax should come under $65.

[topgun2]

3 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

@Ronbrink and @MAX Burner concur that max range is 10 to 20 FT max. I'm good for now, but might add the Victron smart dongle, that according to members on other RV forums, broadcasts a stronger signal. The dongle is $40, a (required?) Victron connector cable and tax should come under $65.

I've heard the same thing.  In fact, I just saw a YouTube vid the other day where the person that did the install was testing the Bluetooth out to about 100 feet plus.

Good luck!

Bill

[MAX Burner]

18 hours ago, topgun2 said:

I've heard the same thing.  In fact, I just saw a YouTube vid the other day where the person that did the install was testing the Bluetooth out to about 100 feet plus.

Good luck!

Bill

Definitely familiar with the Victron Dongle, but didn't realize it can extend the bluetooth signal reception.  Will need to look into it - if only to get another 25 feet of coverage, we'd be able to monitor while towing.  That would be nice.  Real nice.

[SeaDawg]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:19 PM, jd1923 said:

don't have the time to worry about it now, but perhaps another $60 would allow the app to read the signal from your driver's seat. I'm not betting on a 60' broadcast to my living room, but perhaps it could if I mounted the dongle rear left of the Oliver where I have line-of-sight. Closer to my living room, would be farther from the TV driver's seat!

Maybe. I pulled up the victron smart dongle manual, and it says 20 meters of clear space "should" give a signal, in the troubleshootingsection. (That might depend on your windows, wall thickness,  and insulation, etc, in your house. Mine block a lot of signals. 

Perhaps worth a try?

$40 on Amazon, and free return if it doesn't work...

 

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, SeaDawg said:

Maybe. I pulled up the Victron smart dongle manual, and it says 20 meters of clear space "should" give a signal... Perhaps worth a try?

That's 65 feet, so it should certainly get into the TV cab and yes "maybe" to my living room. We did get another 3" of snow this morning. Doesn't the Oliver look good out there, or what? We all love Oliver pics, right? (Picture taken from our living room window.)

You know of course after finding a used Tuff Shed, I ran 125' of 8AWG burial cable (proper gauge for 30A at 120V for this distance), installed a sub-panel for lights and outlets, then ran 10AWG to the far side of the shed for a 30A shore power outlet! Don't have her covered, hard to do on our property and with codes, but at least the tires are mostly out of the sun.

Anybody reading... do you want to visit Prescott, AZ for a couple of days? Open invite here, just PM me. I'll move our Oliver to another spot, and you can plug in here. I'll run 100' water hose for you too. We love this place, an oasis in the high desert! 🤣

[SeaDawg]

That's an idyllic spot! So nice of you to offer to share.

 

[jd1923]

I went ahead and purchased the Victron Smart Dongle: Amazon.com: Victron Energy VE.Direct Smart Dongle (Bluetooth) : Electronics

I really need to stop spending on this Oliver, but after $130+tax on the SmartShunt, what's another $40+tax to achieve a decent Bluetooth range? Maybe I've gotten used to the 30% inflation manufactured over the last 3 years. Getting used to it, that's scary, but yep spent another 30%!

So far, I can't say whether the Dongle has truly increased range, though I believe it created a new home page reading in the VictronConnect app (see pic). From the 60' distance to my living room, I cannot connect to either device for the detail page. Click on either device and the connection will time out. However, on the app "My Devices" home page, it now shows battery voltage and amperage flow on both devices. I'm not absolutely positive, but I do not remember seeing these readings prior to installing the Dongle.

The Dongle does plug-in directly to the SmartShunt (at least for the pre-wired IP65 version I had purchased). I have not yet mounted it, as the Dongle right now is just hanging off the outside face of the batteries. Perhaps signal distance could be improved if mounted at Oliver window height. The cables end-to- end add up to close to 10' and they do sell cable extensions (let's spend another 10%). BTW, adding another device, more wiring and more $$ one of the most frequent complaints on several RV forums.

Honestly, battery voltage and +/- amperage readings is all I need and care about. I don't need to % full, if your over 13V you're full enough! Don't often care about charge history and other data. Notice in the pic how the shunt has 5 bars and the dongle one. This is NOT accurate, as these reading will flip back and forth constantly, at least when they are close, but out of range.

And best yet, the Dongle already saved my butt the very first day I installed it! We're leaving on a camping trip tomorrow, so over the weekend we were getting everything ready. Cleaned the interior again (after all my upgrade work), unwrapping new mattresses, new bedding, filling the pantry, and more.

Turns out one of the mattresses, while laying sideways in the hallway, had turned the fridge on, and with shore power disconnect, LP turned off, it was running in the DC position! Late that night, I opened the app again to test, only to see our batteries were down to 12.2V and the other reading was -14.5A! What? How could that be? Got dressed again and went out to see and finally noticed that fridge LED was on.

Like I wrote in an earlier post, you want to check these two readings at least every time you leave your Oliver! If not, I would have gotten up today to lead-acid batteries below 50% for sure. Turned the fridge off (will plug in and fill the fridge today) and amps went down to -0.5A. You can see in the pic below that the OEM solar package already has our batteries pretty full at 13.1V adding net +5.7A at 10:20 AM. I wiped the solar panels with a wet towel yesterday, boy they were dirty!

[MAX Burner]

OK @jd1923; after performing a signal strength experiment with the Victron SmartShunt and the Solar Controller, here's what was learned:

Placing the tape measure at 15' from the outer hull adjacent to where the components are mounted within, connection was successful:

Screenshot of the SmartShunt after connecting at 15 feet:

Screenshot of the SmartSolar MPPT Controller at 15':

The 15-foot radius from the hull seemed to be the maximum distance to acquire either device.  Stepping back to 18 - 20 feet was too far away for the Victron app to connect to the devices.  However, as JD noted, in the My Devices screen the readouts for each device seemed to still transmit/receive out to 20 feet.  

Here's a 20' screenshot of the My Devices page:

This got me curious.  So, Part 2 of the experiment:  Went back out and with the My Devices page selected at about 40 feet - no BT signal received - zero bars on each device, then started walking ever so slowly toward the rig.  At about 30 - 35 feet, the signal strength bars started popping up to about 2-3 bars.  At this distance the data was now displayed below the SmartShunt and Solar Controller sections of the My Devices page.  So, one could get readings from this distance but will not able to connect to the device individually.

Pic from the distance of 2-3 bars (approximately 30-35 feet)::

Here's a screenshot of the My Devices page at this distance where the BT signal begins transmitting bulk data:

 

Unfortunately, the cab of the TV attenuates the BT signal such that this data cannot be observed when towing.  It would be nice to know if the Victron dongle would increase BT signal strength enough to monitor the system from the cab when towing.  That would certainly be worth the $40 + tax to have that capability, IMO.

Cheers!

 

 

 

[jd1923]

Good test @MAX Burner and keep in mind the dry air of Quartzite is likely best conditions possible. An overcast day on the coast would impede the signal a little.

We're on the road tomorrow, on way to Burro Creek, so I'll report on what I read from the cab of our TV. Thanks

[Ronbrink]

18 hours ago, jd1923 said:

However, on the app "My Devices" home page, it now shows battery voltage and amperage flow on both devices. I'm not absolutely positive, but I do not remember seeing these readings prior to installing the Dongle.

Mine shows those values for the SmartShunt in the Oliver (no monitor) and the MPPT solar charger for a 100Ah LFP portable power station in my TV. However, the PS also has a 712 monitor which is displayed as the ‘device’, rather than its’ associated SmartShunt, and does not display those values on the home screen. No Dongle. Screenshot of the PS monitor and charge controller only, the Oliver is in storage. 

[jd1923]

Update for those of you with the SmartShunt. On our road trip yesterday, 85 miles from home to Burro Creek Campground, I connected while driving the whole way on the main page showing V and A. When clicking on details for the shunt, no-go the connection timed out. Doing the same with the dongle, it connected quickly every time, full details page after taking another 1-2 seconds to read data. And right now, I only have mine taped to the batteries. I'd say worth the extra $40 + tax.

[MAX Burner]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

Doing the same with the dongle, it connected quickly every time, full details page after taking another 1-2 seconds to read data.

That's a great report @jd1923 - so the Dongle is getting you a stronger/better BT signal.  Awesome. The Victron Dongle sounds like a "must have" item to add to the monitoring suite!  

Going over to Amazon now... HA!

[Ronbrink]

13 hours ago, MAX Burner said:

The Victron Dongle sounds like a "must have" item to add to the monitoring suite!

If you get the VE.Direct Smart Dongle, how would it be wired into your setup? I haven’t installed my Cerbo, but know it has a VE.Direct cable going to the SmartShunt VE.Direct cable port.

[MAX Burner]

2 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

If you get the VE.Direct Smart Dongle, how would it be wired into your setup? I

I ordered the VE.Direct Victron Dongle yesterday from Amazon - arrives at the house Friday, but still in Quartzsite until next week.  But to answer your question @Ronbrink, there's 3 options.  

The Cerbo is option 1.  It has 3 VE.direct ports on top, two of mine are used for the SmartShunt and the SmartSolar Charger.  I'll try the 3rd one for the Dongle and check the signal strength in the TV.  If we can receive the "My Devices" page - that's all we'll need to monitor everything the Cerbo reports on the 7" touch screen.

Option 2 will be the SmartShunt - have to check, but if my memory serves, there's 2 VE.Direct ports on the SS.

3rd option is connect to the Victron 12/12DC Charger - its a little closer to the TV than the other 2 devices and may work out.  I'll check the ports later this morning to see if there's one open for the VE Dongle cable.

Whichever gives us the best signal strength from the TV will be what we use.  The data should be all the same regardless which device is used with the Dongle.  In any case the Dongle cable appears quite long - we'll mount it as far forward as possible to get the best signal.

Hope this helps.

Cheers from Quartzsite!

[Ronbrink]

21 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

The Cerbo is option 1.

Thanks for the detailed response, much appreciated!
I read where the Dongle could be connected to most Victron devices, except for GX. My Cerbo has three VE.Direct ports, but if what I read is correct that is not an option. 
 

26 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

Option 2 will be the SmartShunt

My SmartShunt 500 A only has one VE.Direct port, which will be encumbered with the Cerbo cable connection when installed. 
 

31 minutes ago, MAX Burner said:

3rd option is connect to the Victron 12/12DC Charger

I have a Renogy DC-DC.

I think I may have a problem if Option 1 is not viable. Good luck with your install and improved BT monitoring performance!
Again, thanks!

[jd1923]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:05 AM, Ronbrink said:

If you get the VE.Direct Smart Dongle, how would it be wired into your setup? I haven’t installed my Cerbo, but know it has a VE.Direct cable going to the SmartShunt VE.Direct cable port.

I plugged the VE.Direct Smart Dongle directly into my SmartShunt IP65. If you have the Victron Cerbo, it appears it has three (3) VE.Direct ports (see pic), so should not be a problem.

When I purchased my dongle, I was not sure if I was going to end up with 2 male connectors (or 2 female? very hard to see), so I purchase this kit which I did not need. I believe you can daisy-chain as many connections as you want and also make extension cables if needed: Amazon.com: 20 Sets Mini Micro Jst 2.0 Ph 4 Pin Connector Plug Male With 150mm Cable & Female : Electronics

In fact, if you want to mount the dongle up high for better reception, you can cut off micro 4-pin connector, drill only an 1/8" hole through the fiberglass and then solder a new connector after passing the wire. Not a bad deal, 20 connectors for $8!

[jd1923]

I was able to read battery data while driving all the way back from our trip. It was of greater interest, since the batteries had less charge and this was the first time I ever ran a DC fridge while driving (LP off). We only have lead-acid although a decent 450AH. We ran our inverter most of the time, played DVDs, the TV and soundbar, the furnace overnight, an electric tea kettle the first morning, a little microwave and batteries were down to 79%. The next day was cloudy, only got up to 85%. Next day boiled water with LP instead, down to 75% and back to 85% on a sunny day. The sun is really low during winter, isn't it? Seemed like it hardly came over the deep canyon walls where we camped.

Ran the fridge on DC today, 3 hours back with a lunch stop, batteries got down to 67%. Plugged into shore power and back to 100% in a little more than an hour. At least that's what Victronconnect reported. It should really take longer, as the charger kept giving lesser amperage all night.

BTW, now that we're back home, Oliver parked behind our shed, the dongle is performing better than ever! Before we left, I had to be near our LR window. Now anywhere in the living room it connects instantly. So as a test, I walked past the LR, behind our double-sided real granite stone fireplace and it connected. It took 3-4 seconds longer to connect but did so without timing out as it had before.

[MAX Burner]

Awesome report @jd1923!  Can't wait to get ours connected to the system.  About how far is it from your LR to the Dongle?

[mossemi]

On 1/15/2024 at 1:48 PM, jd1923 said:

Maybe I've gotten used to the 30% inflation manufactured over the last 3 years.

This link shows the Amazon price history for the Victron Smart Shunt.  I'm not a math major but I don’t see a 30% inflation rate for this product.

Mossey

https://3cmls.co/US/B01CGFF8Q2

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, MAX Burner said:

Awesome report @jd1923!  Can't wait to get ours connected to the system.  About how far is it from your LR to the Dongle?

About 70 ft to the LR couch, 90 ft when i was in the DR on the other side of the fireplace. This morning it would not work behind the stone fireplace, but when I walked beside it, still 90 ft it connected quickly. Is worth it.

Don't challenge my math @mossemi, as an Industrial Engineer, with MSIE and PMP, I've spent a lifetime correcting the math of so many MBA financial types. What I wrote earlier is the purchasing the Dongle at $40 is 30% more than the $130 SmartShunt alone ($130 + $40)/$130 = 1.31 a 31% increase.

The common feeling is the SmartShunt product, advertising Bluetooth from Victron should do the same job as their Bluetooth Dongle, not some half-@ss weak version. Why should the consumer have to pay 30% more for it to work effectively? Not truly inflation, was just a joke re what the gov has been doing to us lately! Both are shameful, the latter much worse. I'll take spending an extra $40 on this vs. the extra $600 we spend on groceries monthly, then the fuel costs, utilities, restaurant... I'll stop now!

[mossemi]

5 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Not truly inflation, was just a joke

I appreciate your clarification!

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

On 1/20/2024 at 1:25 AM, jd1923 said:

I plugged the VE.Direct Smart Dongle directly into my SmartShunt IP65. If you have the Victron Cerbo, it appears it has three (3) VE.Direct ports (see pic), so should not be a problem.

As eluded to in a previous post, it is my understanding that the Cerbo GX device is not compatible with said Dongle. Furthermore, the single VE.Direct port on the SmartShunt is encumbered by the VE.Direct cable connected to the Cerbo. Thus, I am still uncertain how to incorporate the Dongle, given my particular setup, if in fact the Cerbo VE.Direct ports cannot be utilized for this specific application. I am not savvy enough to figure this out on my own, so perhaps you or others can further advise if it is even doable. Thanks!

[jd1923]

6 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

As eluded to in a previous post, it is my understanding that the Cerbo GX device is not compatible with said Dongle. Furthermore, the single VE.Direct port on the SmartShunt is encumbered by the VE.Direct cable connected to the Cerbo. Thus, I am still uncertain how to incorporate the Dongle, given my particular setup, if in fact the Cerbo VE.Direct ports cannot be utilized for this specific application. I am not savvy enough to figure this out on my own, so perhaps you or others can further advise if it is even doable. Thanks!

I just did a quick look through the Cerbo GX Manual: Cerbo GX Manual (victronenergy.com) I'm not certain, but if I owned this product I would read the Manual page for page.

It mentions connection to the VE.Direct Dongle and it has VE.Direct 3 ports. Each Victron device has an IP and/or MAC address, so I believe they can be daisy-chain wired, one off the next one. But there are already 3 ports; 1) MPPT Solar, 2) SmartShunt, and 3) another VE.Direct device like their Dongle.

I believe it states the Cerbo GX has built-in Wi-Fi and if it has Wi-Fi you do not need the Bluetooth Dongle, as Wi-Fi is a stronger connection and can be network based. This product is the brains of large VE systems and MUST have connectivity to their apps. You will be very likely to connect via Wi-Fi and see your battery status from anywhere in the world that has an internet connection, given you have a VPN you can login into remotely.

I know enough to be dangerous here but take a look at page 87 of the manual (PDF page 93). They mention an offline connection which means direct w/o internet (w/o VRM their internet app). They also refer to a VRM and this is where you can check remotely via internet.

You may need professional help in such a configuration. Perhaps VE has good tech support, so place a call for help to get your Cerbo GX configured effectively. One or more network connections are certainly available.