One dead wet cell battery

[Cort]

2 hours ago, jd1923 said:

You would really have to determine cause. @Cort how did you know you had one bad cell, not dead battery, but one dead cell? How did you know the others were good at the time? How did you get a 240V reading? My shop air compressor runs on 240V! Another member thought it might have been 24V, could it have been 2.4V? That would be a near dead battery.

What caused them all to go bad? It wasn't adding a new AGM, if wired correctly. Immediately I would remove all 4 batteries, test each voltage independently and get the new AGM on a charger. The others may have been toast when the 4th went bad. Try charging them all. Recently I left an accessory on in a car and 2-3 days later went to start the car and got nothing. The voltmeter showed the battery had about 2V in it! Because the battery was only 1 year old, with care I got it back up to full charge. Car/truck starter batteries should be regularly at 12.6V, if less then it's getting older. Deep Cycle Batteries should sit at 13.1V with a full charge. 

I sent Oliver a picture of the battery configuration to make sure it was wired properly. I would be shocked if it wasn't - we moved only the wires to the dead battery and one wire to a live battery (to get the battery out) but time will tell. 

[ChrisMI]

1 hour ago, Cort said:

Thanks - we learned that they did sell us a wet cell (Electric World) - the guy just neglected to tell me that. That was curious because when I gave him a wet cell battery and he gave me what looked like a dry cell battery (no water cells on top - they were hidden)

Most of the new wet cell batteries sold now, including the ones Oliver uses, are non serviceable “sealed” batteries.  I would personally pay a little extra and have the RV shop install the batteries and check to make sure everything is ok. Make sure none of the wires have chafing that might be causing a short. Watch the voltage closely on the monitor and try hard not to discharge the battery bank below 12.2 volts. Fully charge whenever possible and have a great trip!

[jd1923]

@Cort I am so-o-o sorry to hear of your pain! 😟 The first time I broke down in a car was 1977, trying to get home for Christmas, VA to Chicago. The car broke down, had to park it in WV and rent a car! This was the last time I knew nothing about automobiles!

Just searched Camping World, filtered for Mesa AZ and I see the battery you purchased (your sales rep sold you junk). Next time anybody, go to Batteries Plus first, when on the road. I buy most of my automotive batteries there, many made in PA USA (though no experience w/ house batteries from this company). Camping world sold you a China made low end battery. Just return it with your paid receipt. Walmart would be better than Camping World, for sure.

You now certainly need 4 batteries. Batteries Plus may be able to help you, but don't go back to Camping World except for the return.

Wish you were 2 hours NW of Mesa. You could park in my RV spot. I'd plug you in to my 30A circuit. The invitation is open, just PM. Drive up and we will get you fixed. You could stay awhile in our amazing AZ high country. I'm off for the holidays and into late January. Isn't this what the Oliver Club is about!?!

[Cort]

44 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

@Cort I am so-o-o sorry to hear of your pain! 😟 The first time I broke down in a car was 1977, trying to get home for Christmas, VA to Chicago. The car broke down, had to park it in WV and rent a car! This was the last time I knew nothing about automobiles!

Just searched Camping World, filtered for Mesa AZ and I see the battery you purchased (your sales rep sold you junk). Next time anybody, go to Batteries Plus first, when on the road. I buy most of my automotive batteries there, many made in PA USA (though no experience w/ house batteries from this company). Camping world sold you a China made low end battery. Just return it with your paid receipt. Walmart would be better than Camping World, for sure.

You now certainly need 4 batteries. Batteries Plus may be able to help you, but don't go back to Camping World except for the return.

Wish you were 2 hours NW of Mesa. You could park in my RV spot. I'd plug you in to my 30A circuit. The invitation is open, just PM. Drive up and we will get you fixed. You could stay awhile in our amazing AZ high country. I'm off for the holidays and into late January. Isn't this what the Oliver Club is about!?!

Thanks so much J! So generous of you :). I don't know if we'll make it up there. Hopefully we are ok tomorrow but I will keep your wonderful offer in mind 🙂 Good to be part of the Club!

[Cort]

I attached an image of our battery configuration if anyone knows how to read it 🙂

[ChrisMI]

49 minutes ago, Cort said:

I attached an image of our battery configuration if anyone knows how to read it 🙂

Cort, I hate to say it but to me it looks like you reversed the polarity with the new battery you installed. I would strongly suggest having an RV shop install the new batteries.  They might need to make up a new jumper cable or two depending on how the new batteries fit. 

[jd1923]

52 minutes ago, ChrisMI said:

Cort, I hate to say it but to me it looks like you reversed the polarity with the new battery you installed. I would strongly suggest having an RV shop install the new batteries.  They might need to make up a new jumper cable or two depending on how the new batteries fit. 

Yep, Chris is right on the reversed polarity. The new battery has the posts in the opposite direction, so when you installed it, in the same direction (battery posts towards the center of the four) the polarity was reversed without you thinking about it. Lucky this did not explode! Likely because the other 3 were very weak.

I would want to work your upgrade now. Forget the "RV shop." Batteries plus has very good AGM batteries and they will install them for you. In Mesa and the Phoenix valley, there are several solar shops if it is time for you to go LiFePO4!

[Cort]

Hmm Oliver says the configuration is correct. The wires will only fit that way. If you look at the two batteries at the bottom the posts are on top  (to the center) and the cells are on the bottom (to the left).  The next row over the batteries are facing the other way. It's like the two rows of batteries have their backs to each other. ?

[Wandering Sagebrush]

I’m of the opinion the picture shows a correct 4 battery parallel install.  It’s a bit confusing with the red + caps on negative posts, but looks correct to me.  

[SNY SD UP]

21 minutes ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

I’m of the opinion the picture shows a correct 4 battery parallel install.  It’s a bit confusing with the red + caps on negative posts, but looks correct to me.  

Yes, on the lower left Batt; Red Post Cap, but a "-" (negative) on Batt housing.

[ChrisMI]

1 hour ago, SNY SD UP said:

Yes, on the lower left Batt; Red Post Cap, but a "-" (negative) on Batt housing.

The lower left battery does have a red cap on the neg terminal which is not an issue.  However, the new battery was installed and either the caps were swapped (neg for pos) or the battery has the positive on the right side (they make batteries both ways).  The picture does not show the terminal identification but with the weird meter readings it might make sense (trying to wire the old batteries in parallel with the new one in series - however, connecting in a loop would destroy all the batteries). 

[Cort]

Thanks! The questions made me look at battery placement more carefully and helped me get them in correctly. The batteries - Interstate - are in and charging. So far so good! 🙂

[jd1923]

20 minutes ago, ChrisMI said:

The lower left battery does have a red cap on the neg terminal which is not an issue.  However, the new battery was installed and either the caps were swapped (neg for pos) or the battery has the positive on the right side (they make batteries both ways).  The picture does not show the terminal identification but with the weird meter readings it might make sense (trying to wire the old batteries in parallel with the new one in series - however, connecting in a loop would destroy all the batteries). 

I still think it looks wrong too. Yes, the lower left battery has the red cap wrong, but on that battery you can see the +/- signs. The new battery is top left and there are no +/- signs showing in the picture. If where the red cap is, somewhere below you find a + sign, then it was wired in reverse polarity. Like Chris wrote, the reason it would kill all batteries.

[Geronimo John]

What a terrible cluster.....   A lesson I had never even contemplated before is to check with a volt meter that the + and - voltage markings are correct on a replacement battery!  Likewise that the battery puts out at the proper 6, 12 or 24 volts desired.  

I previously got bit by buying a battery with the proper voltage and proper markings, but the posts were on the opposite side of my truck's.  Hence the battery cables did not reach.  Carried the battery back to auto zone and got the proper one.  Was a long walk to the truck... So I have never forgotten that mistake on my learning curve.

GJ

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

4 hours ago, ChrisMI said:

The lower left battery does have a red cap on the neg terminal which is not an issue.  However, the new battery was installed and either the caps were swapped (neg for pos) or the battery has the positive on the right side (they make batteries both ways).  The picture does not show the terminal identification but with the weird meter readings it might make sense (trying to wire the old batteries in parallel with the new one in series - however, connecting in a loop would destroy all the batteries). 

It’s another case of red cap misplaced

[Wandering Sagebrush]

4 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I still think it looks wrong too. Yes, the lower left battery has the red cap wrong, but on that battery you can see the +/- signs. The new battery is top left and there are no +/- signs showing in the picture. If where the red cap is, somewhere below you find a + sign, then it was wired in reverse polarity. Like Chris wrote, the reason it would kill all batteries.

If that battery was improperly wired, I’m pretty certain there would have been some interesting arc welding.

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

If that battery was improperly wired, I’m pretty certain there would have been some interesting arc welding.

Something made 3 good batteries go bad after a 4th new battery was connected. I want to see the +/- signs on that 4th battery! No other way to be sure.

Back in the day (50s-60s) my dad was a ME, a good design engineer, but he could not wrench a bolt to save his life - literally! For example, one time he asked me, "Do you have a knife." I replied sure and pulled one off my belt for his use. He then used it to remove a large screw and damaged the blade. I'm like, "Dad, are you kidding? Why didn't you ask me for a screwdriver?" My good knife was now junk!

One day during the 80s, he went to start his car and it wouldn't start. He connected it to a charger and went back in the house to wait for a while. When he came back to the garage it smelled like burnt plastic. He had connected the charger in reverse polarity! The car was a 1982 Porsche 911SC. His mistake fried wire harnesses, fuse boxes, and more, lucky he did not burn down the garage, the house, oh dear dad. He traded it in the next week, claiming the trunk was never large enough to fit his golf clubs!

Hey, we all make mistakes and for some reason the frequency seems to be greater with RVs! I've been repairing and restoring vehicles for 45 years and I make mistakes every day doing so. I started a thread a few weeks ago about my system not charging. I had the solar switch in the OFF position! Go figure. 🤣

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

f that battery was improperly wired, I’m pretty certain there would have been some interesting arc welding.

For sure.

Or worse a trailer fire of high order fueled by bad Hazmat.  It would not have been a fun restoration effort, and then the long trip during your vacation trying to get Ollie back to the Mother Ship would be painful.  Would not wish that on anybody.   

All in all, I think it was good news that nobody got hurt and the trailer is still fully intact.  

Cord has purchased his first mod, the 350 Blue Seas Master Kill Switch.   I hope that other OTT owners that don't have a way to physically isolate their trailer from the batteries do so as well.  

GJ

[Ronbrink]

10 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Cord has purchased his first mod, the 350 Blue Seas Master Kill Switch.   I hope that other OTT owners that don't have a way to physically isolate their trailer from the batteries do so as well.  

GJ, I will premise the following based on the many discussions in this forum regarding the use and/or installation of a master battery cutoff switch, specific to OTTs. I was surprised to learn that my Oliver wasn’t equipped with said switch, perhaps because I didn’t opt for solar? I have one of the Blue Seas switches, but when trying to figure out where and how to install I first disconnected the positive battery cable to supposedly isolate the battery bank, as would such switch. The trailer was hooked up to shore power at the time, so after the makeshift battery disconnect I ventured inside to see the effect on the inner workings. In short, it was not a happy place! There were several anomalies observed: a few of the under-cabinet lights were fading on and off, the Furion radio was making strange noises and panel flickering, popping and crackling noises were heard coming from the under belly, the GFCI on the Xantrex tripped; I swear, I thought the trailer was ‘possessed’! In fear (not from the devil on my heels) of causing irreparable damage, I rushed back out to reconnect the battery cable. Thankfully all was found back to norm, thus deeming the ‘exorcism’ a success. But wait, there’s more! My inquisitive mind wanted to know if having the shore power connected in correlation to the battery disconnect had anything to do with the observed anomalies. So upon removing from shore power, the battery disconnect process was repeated; as was the ‘possession’, yikes! Given the scenario, if anyone has any insight as to what could possibly be happening, your thoughts and/or advice would be greatly appreciated. GJ, does this qualify as a bonafide thread hijack?

[Wandering Sagebrush]

13 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Something made 3 good batteries go bad after a 4th new battery was connected. I want to see the +/- signs on that 4th battery! No other way to be sure. <snip>

It’s faint, but it’s there.  One of the great things about tablets is the ability to blow up photos.
 

[ChrisMI]

17 minutes ago, Wandering Sagebrush said:

It’s faint, but it’s there.  One of the great things about tablets is the ability to blow up photos.
 

That’s a picture of the old battery.  The picture that had one new battery installed was the one in question. 
 

However, the important thing is he now has four good quality batteries that are wired correctly and charging properly!

[ChrisMI]

10 hours ago, Jps190 said:

   If anyone is considering switching to lithium I highly recommend checking out Epoch batteries.  I have 48 volt ones installed in my golf cart but  they also make 12 volt batteries for Rv applications.  Will prowse just did a review on their 460ah battery on his YouTube channel. It would fit perfectly in the battery tray.  They also have a holiday sale right now so you can get the above battery for about $1700 which is a steal for that amount of power.  Epoch has other sizes as well.  The lithionics are nice batteries but there are much cheaper options with the same quality.  FYI…

John

 

https://www.epochbatteries.com

WOW, I think I found my next purchase for the trailer!  That is exactly what I want with every feature I need. Almost bought the battle born 8d in November, this unit looks massively better. 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

15 minutes ago, ChrisMI said:

That’s a picture of the old battery.  The picture that had one new battery installed was the one in question. 
 

However, the important thing is he now has four good quality batteries that are wired correctly and charging properly!

Thanks!  Too many battery photos, I picked the wrong one… should have looked for road dust.  The photo of the newly installed battery does show a properly wired battery, and I agree… the good thing is that it’s working.

[mossemi]

@Ronbrink

I think we all recognize the each Oliver is somewhat unique, whether from the factory or because an owner has made changes to suit their particular needs. So I try very hard to avoid making definitive statements and I try to avoid talking in absolutes.  So I will not talk about your Oliver specifically, but I will talk about mine.  Whenever I am working on the 12v system in my LE2 hull 193, the first step for me is to turn off the Blue Sea battery cutoff switch. I installed this switch, not Oliver and I do have solar.  If I am plugged into an AC power source and I want to work on the batteries, I will also turn off the 12v charging breaker in the Progressive Dynamic power center.  And I will also turn off the breakers I installed before and after the solar charger if needed.  The last breaker I may need to turn off is the flag breaker Oliver installed which is I believe is the first device connected to the Progressive Dynamic's 12v charging circuit.  And then I would use a 12v tester of some sort to verify the device I was going to work on was in fact isolated.

All that being said, I would guess your 120v input to the charging section of the Progressive Dynamic was the source of the 12v output to the Oliver.

Mossey

[Ronbrink]

23 minutes ago, mossemi said:

I would guess your 120v input to the charging section of the Progressive Dynamic was the source of the 12v output to the Oliver.

That was my first thought, but on the second trial there was no 120v input and the result was the same. 
 

29 minutes ago, mossemi said:

Whenever I am working on the 12v system in my LE2 hull 193, the first step for me is to turn off the Blue Sea battery cutoff switch.

I am still hopeful for a switch install, but need to first understand a ‘fix’ or ‘workaround’ for the anomalies experienced. I see where others have installed such switches, even directly atop the batteries, but do not recall any talk of resulting adverse conditions. Thanks for your valued input.