Truma Anti Freeze Troubles

[GAP]

I purchased and installed the Anti Freeze kit for the Truma hot water heater.  Have not been able to get the system to realize that the kit is installed so my first question is whether any of you know how to fix that issue?!  I've installed and double checked the wiring.  2nd question is whether it is possible to drive with the system set to Eco?  I know there is debate as to if it is safe to drive with the propane on but bridges and gas stations aside (I turn of propane in those places) can I temporarily drive with the system set to Eco till Tuesday when Truma opens again after the holiday weekend?

[rich.dev]

I believe this video should answer your questions! 

 

[GAP]

I used that video when I did the install.  Very good information paired with the instruction manual but, sadly, the anti freeze is still not working.  To refine my question:  Does anyone know if it is possible to drive with the Truma set to Eco or Comfort?  We are traveling in temps that could freeze the unit and prefer not to drain for the drive.

[rich.dev]

1 hour ago, GAP said:

1 hour ago, GAP said:

Does anyone know if it is possible to drive with the Truma set to Eco or Comfort? 

Personally, I would not run the water heater on eco or comfort while driving….that mode requires propane and a flame! For driving, with the antifreeze kit on, turn off the propane and set the truma to antifreeze mode, that will keep it from freezing while on the road without having to leave the propane on.

[Rolind]

There are several parts to answer of your question.

The simple answer is yes you can drive in eco or comfort mode.

However, many, including myself, would consider this unsafe. Your propane tank would have to be open, and there would obviously be an open flame in your trailer.  I would only consider it under extenuating circumstances.

I would also be concerned that the flame in the Truma would blow out from the air passing by it under highway speeds and not relight. Thus allowing the unit to freeze anyway.

If remember correctly, it is pretty easy to winterize the Truma, just turn the bypass under the street side bed and drain the unit and leave the filter out. But that still leave the rest of the plumbing at risk for freezing if the trailer is not fully wnterized.

 

[Rivernerd]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:04 AM, GAP said:

Have not been able to get the system to realize that the kit is installed so my first question is whether any of you know how to fix that issue?! 

We purchased our Truma Aquago Antifreeze Kit with our Hull #1291.   It would not work until the Oliver Service folks did something to get the Aquago to recognize the antifreeze kit (which they neglected to do before they delivered the trailer to us).  We have the digital CP Plus wall control.  It would not recognize the Antifreeze kit until it was "introduced" to the kit.

Electric-antifreeze-kit-AquaGo-min.pdf

Above is a .pdf copy of the Antifreeze Kit owners manual.  It provides specific steps to initialize the system, starting with turning the Aquago off, both at the unit outside and the control inside, then installing the antifreeze unit, etc.  In your shoes, I would follow those steps and see if the antifreeze unit then works.

Do you have the digital CP Plus wall control or the dial control?  A digital copy of the CP Plus owners manual is also attached.  I would try re-initializing that control, as instructed in the manual, after installing the antifreeze kit.

If you have the dial wall control, you may need to locate and download the owners manual for that control.

If this does not work short term, I also do not recommend driving with the Aquago on, because of the open flame.  At a minimum, pull over away from gas pumps and turn the Aquago off before refueling.   Then, pull away from the pumps and turn the Aquago back on after refueling.

Good luck!

 

Truma - Thermometer Model Truma CP Plus Operating Instructions.pdf

[Rivernerd]

On 1/13/2024 at 9:04 AM, GAP said:

Have not been able to get the system to realize that the kit is installed so my first question is whether any of you know how to fix that issue?! 

I note that the guy in the video rich./dev attached covers re-initialization of the CP Plus wall control to complete the process of installing the antifreeze kit.  This apparently enables the wall control to search for and find the newly-installed antifreeze kit.  I expect that was the step the Oliver Service folks neglected to do when delivering our Hull #1291 (until we brought it to their attention). 

Did you do that?

[GAP]

Great info all.  Thanks on that.  Long and short is that I did follow the anti freeze kit instructions and video from FitRV.  The unit I'm dealing with, in this case, has a CP Plus wall control unit.  As reflected in the video, I also went through the initialization process a number of times.  Sadly, the anti freeze kit is still not being recognized by my wall control unit.  I'll likely "winterize" the Truma for the drive, as opposed to running on propane.  Truth is that quite a few states allow vehicles to run with propane on but I try to avoid doing so if reasonably possible and would never consider pulling into a gas station, going through a bridge, on a ferry, etc... with the tanks open.  Driving on open roads I am less squeamish about, personally, as I feel the having a gas tank and combustion engine is probably an equally dubious circumstance.  

I am hoping that Truma can help me sort the anti freeze kit.  Am sure it boils down to operator error but have been unable to head scratch or chin tug my way through it.  Thanks much for the input

 

[Jason Foster]

10 hours ago, GAP said:

I used that video when I did the install.  Very good information paired with the instruction manual but, sadly, the anti freeze is still not working.  To refine my question:  Does anyone know if it is possible to drive with the Truma set to Eco or Comfort?  We are traveling in temps that could freeze the unit and prefer not to drain for the drive.

Yes.  I have and it works.  If you leave your heat running in your trailer while towing it to keep your water from freezing, you might as well leave the Truma on.  However, like @Rolind mentioned, Truma has a feature that allows you to easily drain it from the outside once you shut the water supply valve off under the curb side bed.  This is the main reason I didn't buy the antifreeze kit.

[rich.dev]

1 minute ago, Jason Foster said:

Yes.  I have and it works.

Jason, and you did not have issues with the flame blowing out? That is a huge concern for me, that the flame would blow out from the air passing by while doing 60-65mph going down the highway, and if it doesn't relight, well now you have gas just blowing out! Unless there's a safety feature that will shut the gas off if the flame bows out, I don't know! 

[Jason Foster]

2 hours ago, rich.dev said:

Jason, and you did not have issues with the flame blowing out? That is a huge concern for me, that the flame would blow out from the air passing by while doing 60-65mph going down the highway, and if it doesn't relight, well now you have gas just blowing out! Unless there's a safety feature that will shut the gas off if the flame bows out, I don't know! 

That was a concern of mine as well.  I opened the housing and looked at the way Truma built the heating system.  The shielding around the burners is fairly impregnable without tools and the exhaust is routed out and down.  It would take a very powerful burst of wind directed inside the vent to worry me about that.  Even so, the design wouldn't allow gas venting if the flame blew out, it would just relight it. 

Regardless, I drove close to 800 miles on highways and interstates with no problem.   

[topgun2]

13 hours ago, rich.dev said:

Jason, and you did not have issues with the flame blowing out? That is a huge concern for me, that the flame would blow out from the air passing by while doing 60-65mph going down the highway, and if it doesn't relight, well now you have gas just blowing out! Unless there's a safety feature that will shut the gas off if the flame bows out, I don't know! 

I don't have the Truman but virtually all burners I've ever looked at have a thermocouple that "senses" heat.  If there isn't any heat (flame) then the gas flow to the burner is shut off - automatically.

Bill

[Jim and Chris Neuman]

Noticed a couple of issues with our 2021 Legacy II (with Truma) I had not run into before.  We have had a week of unusually cold weather here on WA's Northern Olympic Penninsula with temps sitting in the low teens and 20's.  I had left the fresh water tank very low after our last usage and found, on attempting to fire up the Truma anitfreeze kit, that the water pump was starting to pull air due to tank being near empty.  This prevented the Truma from filling and as a result, the Truma would not operate the antifreeze kit.  An error message on the panel told us of this issue.  Lesson learned - ensure some water is in the fresh water tank and that the water pump can deliver water to the Truma prior to startup of the antifreeze kit.  Adding water to the tank solved that issue.  Which bring us to issue #2.

A week of temps in the low teens resulted in a small ice plug forming in the street side fill fitting.  Hooking up a hose and attempting to add water to the tank did not work.    Note to self - street side water fill fitting is in a low, cold and virtually unheated part of the area between the hulls.  Prolonged temps in the teens allowed an ice blockage to form right at the fitting.  Solved this by filling a couple of 5 gal water jugs with warm water and bringing it into the fresh water tank through the boondocking fill .  Problem solved - water pump purged air from the lines, Truma got it's water and all is good.

Heading out for 6-8 weeks toward (hopefully) warmet climes tomorrow with a freshly lubed, filled and pampered Oliver and fresh tires on the truck  Should be fun.

 

[Jason Foster]

7 hours ago, Jim and Chris Neuman said:

A week of temps in the low teens resulted in a small ice plug forming in the street side fill fitting.  Hooking up a hose and attempting to add water to the tank did not work.   

I sort of anticipated this problem before it got cold here in Texas.  I left the cap off of the fill line and let the water drain out by lifting the front of the camper.  Water seems to get trapped in there when level.  

[AlbertNTerri]

A couple of years ago there was a modification detailed where someone added a 3-4 inch diameter heater duct, routing it from the furnace, under the basement flooring to the street side and was able to dump some heat under the street side bed and dinette area (including a duct to the battery box) that solved the problem of the water connections on the outside freezing as well as adding some heat to the lithium battery compartment. Maybe one of the moderators can dig up that thread for us. 

 

On the subject of digging up stuff on the forum, can someone show us (again) how to search the forum for stuff. I remember one time someone pointed out how to use the google search to find stuff that the forum's search window doesn't find.

Thanks in advance!

[SeaDawg]

A couple of folks have explained how to use Google search to find info here.

Here's one:

 

[GAP]

On 1/15/2024 at 1:41 PM, Jim and Chris Neuman said:

Noticed a couple of issues with our 2021 Legacy II (with Truma) I had not run into before.  We have had a week of unusually cold weather here on WA's Northern Olympic Penninsula with temps sitting in the low teens and 20's.  I had left the fresh water tank very low after our last usage and found, on attempting to fire up the Truma anitfreeze kit, that the water pump was starting to pull air due to tank being near empty.  This prevented the Truma from filling and as a result, the Truma would not operate the antifreeze kit.  An error message on the panel told us of this issue.  Lesson learned - ensure some water is in the fresh water tank and that the water pump can deliver water to the Truma prior to startup of the antifreeze kit.  Adding water to the tank solved that issue.  Which bring us to issue #2.

A week of temps in the low teens resulted in a small ice plug forming in the street side fill fitting.  Hooking up a hose and attempting to add water to the tank did not work.    Note to self - street side water fill fitting is in a low, cold and virtually unheated part of the area between the hulls.  Prolonged temps in the teens allowed an ice blockage to form right at the fitting.  Solved this by filling a couple of 5 gal water jugs with warm water and bringing it into the fresh water tank through the boondocking fill .  Problem solved - water pump purged air from the lines, Truma got it's water and all is good.

Heading out for 6-8 weeks toward (hopefully) warmet climes tomorrow with a freshly lubed, filled and pampered Oliver and fresh tires on the truck  Should be fun.

 

I've had that ice plug form before as well.  My solution was to add quick fittings to all those ports.  Found rubber capped sleeves at a hardware store to fit over the male end on the quick fitting - the part that stays on the trailer.  When I was carefull to drain water from fittings, it worked well.  Otherwise, I just unscrewed the fitting and the female hose screw ports would almost always be free of ice.  The fittings themselves would be plugged with ice but the screw on fitting was almost always clear.

[GAP]

On 1/14/2024 at 10:19 PM, Jason Foster said:

That was a concern of mine as well.  I opened the housing and looked at the way Truma built the heating system.  The shielding around the burners is fairly impregnable without tools and the exhaust is routed out and down.  It would take a very powerful burst of wind directed inside the vent to worry me about that.  Even so, the design wouldn't allow gas venting if the flame blew out, it would just relight it. 

Regardless, I drove close to 800 miles on highways and interstates with no problem.   

Sooo, I spoke to a tech at Truma.  I've laid down plenty of miles with the unit on and never had a problem but the tech pointed out that another potential problems is the negative pressure could force the fan to run in reverse which would likely cause the fan to fail.  Odd after so much success but scared me enough so I now drain the unit till I can sort out the problem with the antifreeze kit.  

[GAP]

On 1/15/2024 at 10:17 PM, AlbertNTerri said:

A couple of years ago there was a modification detailed where someone added a 3-4 inch diameter heater duct, routing it from the furnace, under the basement flooring to the street side and was able to dump some heat under the street side bed and dinette area (including a duct to the battery box) that solved the problem of the water connections on the outside freezing as well as adding some heat to the lithium battery compartment. Maybe one of the moderators can dig up that thread for us. 

 

On the subject of digging up stuff on the forum, can someone show us (again) how to search the forum for stuff. I remember one time someone pointed out how to use the google search to find stuff that the forum's search window doesn't find.

Thanks in advance!

You may have been reading one of my posts.  I did that modification and wrote about it in the forum.  It helped, a bit, with the limited capacity of these trailers to be used non winterized but when temps dropped into low teens for extended periods, the water connections would still freeze as would some of the pex lines.  Others have claimed to have better luck with this but I spent close to three months winter camping spread over two seasons and leaned into the mods to improve cold weather capacity and never found my Oliver to be trustworthy when it was colder than that.  Eventually gave up and started camping with water in jugs.  Luckily had chosen the composting toilet option so this situation was less than ideal and way south of what I expected when we bought the Oliver but certainly survivable.

[AlbertNTerri]

4 hours ago, GAP said:

You may have been reading one of my posts.  I did that modification and wrote about it in the forum.  It helped, a bit, with the limited capacity of these trailers to be used non winterized but when temps dropped into low teens for extended periods, the water connections would still freeze as would some of the pex lines.  Others have claimed to have better luck with this but I spent close to three months winter camping spread over two seasons and leaned into the mods to improve cold weather capacity and never found my Oliver to be trustworthy when it was colder than that.  Eventually gave up and started camping with water in jugs.  Luckily had chosen the composting toilet option so this situation was less than ideal and way south of what I expected when we bought the Oliver but certainly survivable.

Thanks GAP for that input,  your post was the one I was referring to. I'm sorry the mod didn't provide as much improvement as anticipated, it seemed like a great idea. Thanks for the update.

albert

[Rivernerd]

18 hours ago, GAP said:

Sooo, I spoke to a tech at Truma. 

Did the Truma tech have an explanation as to why your newly-installed antifreeze kit is not working for you?

[Jason Foster]

On 1/18/2024 at 5:02 PM, GAP said:

 so I now drain the unit   

This works for me.  I actually went out and drained it when the temperatures were about 15 degrees.  This is so easy to do, I don't know why I left it running in the first place.  It pretty much works instantly when I turn it back on.  

[GAP]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:15 PM, AlbertNTerri said:

Thanks GAP for that input,  your post was the one I was referring to. I'm sorry the mod didn't provide as much improvement as anticipated, it seemed like a great idea. Thanks for the update.

albert

To clarify, there were a ton of benefits to that set of mods.  Very worthwhile effort.  It allowed me to camp in temps that were 15 degrees lower than the de-winterized trailer did when stock.  Problem is, here in New England, the forecast can be for a low of 15 which may just as likely be actual temps of 25 as 5.  Running the heat under the batteries was a huge gain.  They were noticeably more efficient ( longer lasting) post mod.  Before, we had a frustrating condensation problem on the curbside bed wall and window both of which was much less of an issue after.  Last but not least, we had our dog's bed on the floor between our beds up against the nightstand.  Long dog so long bed so the original heat vent would cook his little head.  Wet dog smell does not need to be exposed to any unnecessary cooking.

[GAP]

On 1/19/2024 at 12:26 PM, Rivernerd said:

Did the Truma tech have an explanation as to why your newly-installed antifreeze kit is not working for you?

We were having to drain the Truma on our rig when on the road cause of the Anti Freeze issue.  Was a bit of a wrestle to work the air out of the system when adding water after getting off the road.  This last time had me having to re-initialize (reset) the Truma yet another time to reintroduce the board to the water heater.  Who knows why but this time the display panel recognized not just the water heater but, magically, the Anti Freeze unit as well.  Won't be testing to see if it works till we leave this ski resort but fingers crossed.  ^ times' the charm.

[GAP]

16 hours ago, Jason Foster said:

This works for me.  I actually went out and drained it when the temperatures were about 15 degrees.  This is so easy to do, I don't know why I left it running in the first place.  It pretty much works instantly when I turn it back on.  

Lucky you Jason.  I keep having to run water through the faucets to purge air, throwing a W27 code (air in lines) till I go through a gallon or two.  I catch that water in containers and put it to use so not a waste.