Norcold Refrigerator Not Drawing off Solar?

[Cort]

2019 Oliver Legacy II - with no inverter. I got the fridge going and am in hot temps (@90 degrees) and bright sunlight - and it is burning through the propane.The temp is set at 6 out of 9 with 9 the coldest - and is pretty filled up. 

A couple of days running and one tank is down to 15%. The fridge is set to auto - and can be set to AC, DC or LP-gas. The manual says the DC setting works off the car battery and the car must be running - but I imagine and hope that it's drawing off the trailer battery. I can't tell if it's doing that, though, and if it is it doesn't seem to be helping much with the fridge (?). 

The first person who bought the trailer put everything in it but the inverter - I don't know if that makes a difference. 

Anyway, I don't know if blowing through this much propane is normal or not in these circumstances or if there's a way to stop the propane drain other than reducing the cold level of the fridge. 

We just had the fridge in for maintenance, by the way, and it appears to be running perfectly. 

Edited May 26 by Cort

[Ray Kimsey]

The fridge in AUTO runs first on AC, then if that is not available it switches to propane, then if that is not available it runs on DC. Inverter is not needed in this application. It is running on propane, since it is available. If you shut off the propane it would switch to DC or if you manual switch it to DC. However, the 3 way fridges are notoriously inefficient compared to your home fridge and will burn through batteries very rapidly.  The best solutions are probably to leave it on propane, keep awning out if possible to shade the refrigerator. Keep the number of items in the fridge small enough that you can have good airflow inside (in otherwords don't overpack).  I have also installed a supplemental fan to pull air through the coils to help efficiency.

[jd1923]

@Ray Kimsey thanks for explaining the prioritization used in the AUTO mode, not enough patience while camping for me to figure that out.

@Cort ours has run on DC while the LP is on. In fact, Chris is generally switching it to DC while I'm outside breaking camp and will turn off the LP, in no particular order. Also, ours switched to DC one dinnertime without knowing it and found our house batteries down to 63% at sunrise. We were running the furnace overnight too. Of course, no +A on solar overnight!

We always have to fight the panel to get it to switch to DC. I believe we hit AUTO and then DC. And yes, as Ray wrote, in the case of a TT it is the house batteries, the "car battery" aka starter battery is not in play.

[Cort]

1 hour ago, Ray Kimsey said:

The fridge in AUTO runs first on AC, then if that is not available it switches to propane, then if that is not available it runs on DC. Inverter is not needed in this application. It is running on propane, since it is available. If you shut off the propane it would switch to DC or if you manual switch it to DC. However, the 3 way fridges are notoriously inefficient compared to your home fridge and will burn through batteries very rapidly.  The best solutions are probably to leave it on propane, keep awning out if possible to shade the refrigerator. Keep the number of items in the fridge small enough that you can have good airflow inside (in otherwords don't overpack).  I have also installed a supplemental fan to pull air through the coils to help efficiency.

So that's how it works...AC then propane then DC -  We have lead acid batteries in the trailer now. I wonder if upping them to lithium - which we plan to do at some point - would help maintain the batteries under load much better. 

Is there much to installing a supplemental fan to pull more air through the coils? 

The fridge was throwing an F error code I think it was - it turned out to be dust and stuff gathering in the fridge. Once it was blown out it did fine. 

It's 95 degrees here right now - so it is very hot. I'll be in cooler temperatures soon. 

[Cort]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

@Ray Kimsey thanks for explaining the prioritization used in the AUTO mode, not enough patience while camping for me to figure that out.

@Cort ours has run on DC while the LP is on. In fact, Chris is generally switching it to DC while I'm outside breaking camp and will turn off the LP, in no particular order. Also, ours switched to DC one dinnertime without knowing it and found our house batteries down to 63% at sunrise. We were running the furnace overnight too. Of course, no +A on solar overnight!

We always have to fight the panel to get it to switch to DC. I believe we hit AUTO and then DC. And yes, as Ray wrote, in the case of a TT it is the house batteries, the "car battery" aka starter battery is not in play.

Nice idea to switch to DC when breaking camp and turning off the LP. I know you're not supposed to run the fridge on propane when travelling but having it on DC seems like an option -but wow - what a drawdown on the battery at night. 

Again, I wonder if upgrading to lithium might help? 

Also - I have Bluetti power station with portable panels. Is there a way to have the power from those panels flow directly to the house battery?

[SeaDawg]

Set your fridge to propane (cycle the button) and let us know how it works. 

Edited May 26 by SeaDawg

[Geronimo John]

1 minute ago, Cort said:

Is there much to installing a supplemental fan to pull more air through the coils? 

Not all that difficult.  Below is some from the one I did.   

You may need to get creative on the attachment in the louvers.  For simplicity I kept the controller next to the electrical.  When I have time, I'll remount the controller inside where I can get to it easier.

GJ 

 

DIY - Titan Refrigerator Fan Install.docx

 

 

 

 

 

[Geronimo John]

3 minutes ago, Cort said:

I know you're not supposed to run the fridge on propane when travelling

If you are in a high density tunnel, yes most places require you to do so.  

But for 99% of us who are not, I would submit that the vast majority run LP when on the road.

One precaution I suggest on low or no wind days, that we turn off the refrigerator when under cover and refueling.  Like at COSTCO. 

GJ  

[Cort]

11 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

Set your fridge to propane (cycle the button) and let us know how it works. 

I set it to propane.... This might help?

[Cort]

10 minutes ago, Geronimo John said:

Not all that difficult.  Below is some from the one I did.   

You may need to get creative on the attachment in the louvers.  For simplicity I kept the controller next to the electrical.  When I have time, I'll remount the controller inside where I can get to it easier.

GJ 

 

DIY - Titan Refrigerator Fan Install.docx 758.29 kB · 1 download

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! That is really something 🙂

Edited May 26 by Cort

[GraniteStaters]

I also used the Titan, but I didn't mount it to the outside cover.  I added the stand off legs on the back of the fan and place it into the hot air exhaust opening and used a rubber hose to secure the fan against the back wall.  It has never moved.  I wanted to install the switch on the inside of the cabinet above the microwave, but Oliver discouraged me from trying to snake the wires between the hulls and thread it to the outside access opening.  I did install two bus bars to power the fan and fridge with the fridge's 12V supply.  We have had zero issues with this setup and have never run the temp passed 4.

[jd1923]

49 minutes ago, Cort said:

Nice idea to switch to DC when breaking camp and turning off the LP. I know you're not supposed to run the fridge on propane when travelling but having it on DC seems like an option -but wow - what a drawdown on the battery at night. 

Again, I wonder if upgrading to lithium might help? 

Also - I have Bluetti power station with portable panels. Is there a way to have the power from those panels flow directly to the house battery?

I have 450AH lead acid. Normally overnight, running the inverter, TV running 2-4 hours, furnace running some (fan takes a bit of amps), etc. we would be down to 84% lowest to 89%. The fridge on DC took at least 20% (90AH) left on by mistake.

We run fridge on DC while towing, ever since I learned that from this forum. Never thought of it running past RVs. If you have the battery life, use it when you want to conserve LP. Run your fridge on DC when you want to.

While towing, sometimes our fridge draws 6A or so. When sunny in AZ, which is like almost always and even in the winter, we can drive and get +A from the solar and -A from the fridge on DC and it can balance out to 100% SOC when we arrive. When cloudy we still have at least 92%. I have also disconnected the +12V form the 7-way trailer plug, so it's ALL solar.

As far as your Bluetti and portables, I'll let someone else chime in on how. Many have a SAE connection terminal just behind the battery bay. I prefer to have everything permanently installed. When I upgrade to Lithium, I may mount another panel or two up top. Rarely, when we get extra low SOC after multiple nights boondocking, I just spend a night at some campsite, recharge, fill the FWT and my truck mounted tank, visit the dump station and were ready for another 4-7 days out. Ha, maybe we don't need Lithium or extra panels!

Edited May 26 by jd1923

[jd1923]

Another point to add is when you know you are pulling more current like using the DC fridge, keep your eye on the SOC of your batteries. Like many others here, I installed the Victron shunt so I can read SOC and +/- Amp draw from the Victron phone app. It was that morning when I woke at dawn and noticed 63% SOC even before getting out of bed. I thought "what the..." and then I noticed the DC light on the fridge. If I rolled over and back to sleep it would have been worse later. 

[dhaig]

@Cort, I second the recommendation of @Geronimo John to add ventilation fans to improve the operation of the Norcold 3-way refrigerator.  

This is not a difficult project.  Also, I had little problem routing the fan control to the front cabinet, immediately behind the control panel.  Feel free to send me a PM if you have questions.

See:

 

[Geronimo John]

1 hour ago, GraniteStaters said:

I added the stand off legs on the back of the fan and place it into the hot air exhaust opening and used a rubber hose to secure the fan against the back wall.  It has never moved

I much prefer your approach.  Would love to see some pictures of your approach!  

I looked at trying to stand-off the fan in the hot air section, but on the road did not have much to work with.  Using some hose material as legs would also kill the small amount of vibration.

For sure snaking the wires between the hulls there would be a challenge.  I was thinking of mounting the controller on the fore outside wall of the Refer unit, just before the door, but pretty low.  I think that a long drill bit from the Refer side aft direction would make the wire run much easier.  Would for sure need to seal the holes.  But this is a "C" project when I have several A and B's ahead of it.

[Steph and Dud B]

17 hours ago, Cort said:

A couple of days running and one tank is down to 15%.

 

17 hours ago, Cort said:

I don't know if blowing through this much propane is normal or not in these circumstances

That seems like a lot to me. Do you have the 20 or 30 gallon propane tanks? We have 30 gallon tanks and usually go through 1 or 2 tanks a year. I would expect a tank feeding only the fridge to last weeks. Are you using other propane devices, too, like the stove or furnace? If it's only the fridge, could there be a propane leak somewhere? You can check the connections/fittings by spraying a little soapy water on them and looking for bubbles. Or, could your tank sensor be wrong? When you get it refilled, see how much propane it takes. It usually takes about 6-7 gallons to refill a 30 gallon tank.

As for fridge operation without shore power, propane is the most efficient, DC is a big power consumer.

[Imelda]

I have had my Oliver 2 for 4 years now. I went cheap and got the 6V battery option (i do have the 2000W inverter and a zap connector for solar) Now I seem to be having problems holding a charge on these batteries using solar. I think they are shot so I think I need to upgrade to the lithium ion batteries to hold the charge. My Norcold refrigerator comes up with a C error code when the battery reading gets down to less than 10.5.  

The Oliver university does not recommend running propane on the road and my vehicle does not seem to be able to charge the batteries. 

[Cort]

18 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I have 450AH lead acid. Normally overnight, running the inverter, TV running 2-4 hours, furnace running some (fan takes a bit of amps), etc. we would be down to 84% lowest to 89%. The fridge on DC took at least 20% (90AH) left on by mistake.

We run fridge on DC while towing, ever since I learned that from this forum. Never thought of it running past RVs. If you have the battery life, use it when you want to conserve LP. Run your fridge on DC when you want to.

While towing, sometimes our fridge draws 6A or so. When sunny in AZ, which is like almost always and even in the winter, we can drive and get +A from the solar and -A from the fridge on DC and it can balance out to 100% SOC when we arrive. When cloudy we still have at least 92%. I have also disconnected the +12V form the 7-way trailer plug, so it's ALL solar.

As far as your Bluetti and portables, I'll let someone else chime in on how. Many have a SAE connection terminal just behind the battery bay. I prefer to have everything permanently installed. When I upgrade to Lithium, I may mount another panel or two up top. Rarely, when we get extra low SOC after multiple nights boondocking, I just spend a night at some campsite, recharge, fill the FWT and my truck mounted tank, visit the dump station and were ready for another 4-7 days out. Ha, maybe we don't need Lithium or extra panels!

Good to hear - Driving down to Phoenix from Vegas tomorrow - will give it a shot on DC 🙂I'll report on that. I Hadn't thought about adding a solar panel to roof but it does look like there's room for at least one more in front....hmmm

[Cort]

35 minutes ago, Imelda said:

I have had my Oliver 2 for 4 years now. I went cheap and got the 6V battery option (i do have the 2000W inverter and a zap connector for solar) Now I seem to be having problems holding a charge on these batteries using solar. I think they are shot so I think I need to upgrade to the lithium ion batteries to hold the charge. My Norcold refrigerator comes up with a C error code when the battery reading gets down to less than 10.5.  

The Oliver university does not recommend running propane on the road and my vehicle does not seem to be able to charge the batteries. 

Thanks for the reminder - there is the charge the batteries on the road option. I plan to do what when we switch to lithium. Unfortunately we had a battery disaster and got a new set of lead acid about six months but the time is coming 🙂

[Cort]

3 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

 

That seems like a lot to me. Do you have the 20 or 30 gallon propane tanks? We have 30 gallon tanks and usually go through 1 or 2 tanks a year. I would expect a tank feeding only the fridge to last weeks. Are you using other propane devices, too, like the stove or furnace? If it's only the fridge, could there be a propane leak somewhere? You can check the connections/fittings by spraying a little soapy water on them and looking for bubbles. Or, could your tank sensor be wrong? When you get it refilled, see how much propane it takes. It usually takes about 6-7 gallons to refill a 30 gallon tank.

As for fridge operation without shore power, propane is the most efficient, DC is a big power consumer.

Not using furnace or stove... We have 20 gal I think. Let's hope the sensor is wrong. It might be - I just added the Mopeka sensors which don't appear to work when we're on a slope - they've read 15-18% and 100% - quite a bit of variation there! I'm taking the tank in to get it filled and will see where it's at and will report back 🙂

 

[Cort]

17 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Another point to add is when you know you are pulling more current like using the DC fridge, keep your eye on the SOC of your batteries. Like many others here, I installed the Victron shunt so I can read SOC and +/- Amp draw from the Victron phone app. It was that morning when I woke at dawn and noticed 63% SOC even before getting out of bed. I thought "what the..." and then I noticed the DC light on the fridge. If I rolled over and back to sleep it would have been worse later. 

Right - yep - a shunt is going to be part of the lithium upgrade. Thanks for the reminder. 

[Cort]

19 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Not all that difficult.  Below is some from the one I did.   

You may need to get creative on the attachment in the louvers.  For simplicity I kept the controller next to the electrical.  When I have time, I'll remount the controller inside where I can get to it easier.

GJ 

 

DIY - Titan Refrigerator Fan Install.docx 758.29 kB · 10 downloads

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks!

[Steph and Dud B]

2 hours ago, Cort said:

I just added the Mopeka sensors which don't appear to work when we're on a slope

Since we're taking about refrigerators... Your trailer is level, correct? You shouldn't run an absorption fridge with the trailer more than 3 degrees off level front to back or more then 6 degrees off level side to side.

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Cort said:

Not using furnace or stove... We have 20 gal I think. Let's hope the sensor is wrong. It might be - I just added the Mopeka sensors which don't appear to work when we're on a slope - they've read 15-18% and 100% - quite a bit of variation there! I'm taking the tank in to get it filled and will see where it's at and will report back 🙂

 

We have 30-gal tanks. Our Mopeka had some up/down variation, and I received a sensor position warning on/off. I just installed them and will look when we refill. Don't think the magnets stick well to the rounded bottom. You'd think their surface would be curved as well. I may use a little 3m VHB around the edges next time.

Now that it's parked level, it reads 15%. That's after 2 1/2 weeks out, fridge on LP all but about 20-24 hours while towing (say 180 hours ON at 60% boondocking), furnace on some 3 nights (not too cold), fire ring on for 2-3 hours on for ~10 nights, outdoor grill maybe 5 nights and daily use of indoor grill for coffee breakfast and 3-4 dinners. If it was just the fridge running, duration on LP should be in terms of weeks, certainly not a few days. Yes, check for leaks.

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, Imelda said:

I have had my Oliver 2 for 4 years now. I went cheap and got the 6V battery option (i do have the 2000W inverter and a zap connector for solar) Now I seem to be having problems holding a charge on these batteries using solar. I think they are shot so I think I need to upgrade to the lithium ion batteries to hold the charge. My Norcold refrigerator comes up with a C error code when the battery reading gets down to less than 10.5.  

The Oliver university does not recommend running propane on the road and my vehicle does not seem to be able to charge the batteries. 

Basically, your fridge is reporting your batteries are DEAD! Lead acid/AGM should never be much under 12V  though I have been in the yellow a few times, never in the RED!