Tire Recommendation?

[rideandfly]

Our LE2 originally came with Dexter 5200lb axles & 5 leaf springs. Right now our ready to camp weight with empty water tanks is 5100lbs. No one has reported the original 5 leaf Dexter springs failing, yet. With the 10,400lb total axle/spring capacity combined with a 5100lb LE2 weight, I always tried to reduce the overall accumulated fiberglass/frame/component stress from the impact of higher capacity springs by running lower air pressure in the LT load range E tires and by towing slower on rough pavement. We purchased our Ollie used in 2016 and ran 50PSI like the previous owner without issues until seeing the LT tire pressure/load charts in different threads here like the ones posted earlier when I reduced the pressure to 40PSI for the last one or two years without issues. 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 11:46 AM by rideandfly

[DanielBoondock]

8 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

Short Version: 

• Springs because dozens of us have had them FAIL.
• Axles because a boat load of us have tons of miles on the 3500 Dexters, and the cost of replacement of the brake assemblies is insane, and besides we want the braking power of the 5200's.

 

Misunderstanding, I know why we're upgrading the springs and I'm doing it too. I just meant 'why do we all invest in a high end suspension if we don't believe it'll cushion the ride sufficiently?' Basically, we invested in a high end robust trailer - one of the most if not the most robust and well build. Additionally we beef up our suspension. I don't get then why we pamper that trailer like it's a wussie Some Other Trailer - especially when I see tons of Airstreamers running 65 PSI with these tires no problems. 

 

8 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

I can assure you that the fiberglass does flex. 

Of course it does. During a factory tour it was discussed how they have to add honeycomb panels into the glass to reinforce because the panel cutouts lowers the rigidity. And generally you don't want a perfectly rigid structure; the vibration has to damp somehow. 

And no doubt 'there have been issues', but its anecdotal without details. OTOH when I was there a tech told me about a recent trailer they got back in. The guy fell asleep at the wheel, the trailer flipped over on it's side and got dragged down the road a long distance. With a pretty good rug burn you can imagine 😅(more later). But the tow company just put it back on its feet and ... guess what ... just towed it back normally! The hitch was mangled I think but they chained it up just fine. So the insurance wanted an assessment, and you know they could have actually repaired it just fine. The engineers issue was liability. It has burned through the belly band on that side pretty well, sure they could repair but then they have to support it. Wasn't worth messing with and they called it a total loss, except it wasn't really. 

Anyhow you speak to common sense but I don't think that is a good guide here because it's too hard to judge. My common sense says underinflating - with a trailer this robust, is adding risk for no benefit. We need numbers.

From the spring thread I suggested taking measurements. I recommend a vibration app for you phone, tape that to the floor and test how much vibration the trailer is getting. Test and different PSI's. I'll bet it's small, and dropping significantly (e.g. recommended 65 to 35) doesn't greatly help, while lowering efficiency, increasing heat and overall risk. 

I'm taking a trip next month and will measure how I'm beating my trailer to hell at the factory recommended 65 PSI and post the results. Another member said he's upgrading his springs soon and will also measure, which will tell us the spring performance, and how much vibration we're getting. 

Edited yesterday at 01:23 PM by DanielBoondock

[jd1923]

11 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

To be clear you and I both recommend 40 PSI. Right?

OK, and a one more time...

@rideandfly runs their trailer at 40 PSI because they tow at 5100 LB GTW.

I run 46-48 PSI because our trailer always leaves with full FWT, pantry and fridge FULL, closet floor full of drinking water/beverages, solar panels (they have none), the heavy Victron MP2 and aftermarket accessories, and more. Our GTW is considerably heavier at 6400+ LBS. 😎

The 60 PSI number was ONLY cited as the spec limit on a Sendel trailer wheel. He purchased one for the spare tire, thinking of buying 4 more to replace the OEM wheels vs. restoring them. I believe the Oliver OEM wheels must be rated for 80 PSI (had a pic of the wheel label, can't find it today), also since OTT installed Load Range tires on them and wrote 80 PSI on the Oliver DOT label.

IMHO, towing on 80 PSI is crazy, almost as crazy as owning the ugly Airstream. Most of them are a longer than an Oliver, and at 8 FT wide with their over-laden gaudy interiors,  most of them are considerably HEAVIER (not the Bambi of course)! I would not want to tow one, but if I had to it would only be with a new 3500 series truck. Yes, tire pressure required is load dependent! 🤣

Mike runs on 55 PSI. Going HIGHER than this pressure is too high unless you plan to carry MORE than the 7,000 GTWR of the Oliver Elite II. 

Edited 22 hours ago by jd1923

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, DanielBoondock said:

I know why we're upgrading the springs and I'm doing it too. I just meant 'why do we all invest in a high end suspension if we don't believe it'll cushion the ride sufficiently?' Basically, we invested in a high end robust trailer - one of the most if not the most robust and well build. Additionally we beef up our suspension. I don't get then why we pamper that trailer like it's a wussie Some Other Trailer - especially when I see tons of Airstreamers running 65 PSI with these tires no problems. 

First, I very much enjoy reading your posts.  Please do keep questioning and pushing the envelope in an effort for you, me, and others to truely understand the "WHY" question.

Glad to hear you are ditching the 1750's.  Doing so is half the quest.  The other half is deciding "What spring best suites our use of our OE2's"?  For what I believe is about 10% of owners, clearly the answer is the super strong and reliable Alcan 5-Leaf springs.  For the rest of us it is prudent not to "Over-Spring" our suspensions.  The obvious choices are either the Dexter 2400 four leaf or the Alcan four leaf.  If you are a 10%er that often puts their OE2 into structural gymnastics, great get the 3,000 pound Alcons.  If you don't live off-road then the four leaf is your best choice.  If you are budget inclined, as I and others are, then the Dexter 2400's is the answer.  But if you have the spare cash then why not go to is the Alcan 4-leaf springs.  

I have to admit that I have never heard someone use the words "Wussie" and "Oliver" in the same sentence. For sure got a LOL out of me on that one.  I get your thought line though. 

Bottom line is that EVERY design has a life span.  Air Stream's do in fact pop rivets and have upper cabinet issues when stressed over time.  Their owners tend to not be out boondocking on regular basis.  Likewise, stress an Ollie suspension enough and one will see the impacts as well.  I think Bill summarized the situtation well:  

6 hours ago, rideandfly said:

I always try to reduce the overall accumulated fiberglass/frame/component stress from the impact of higher capacity springs by running lower air pressure in the LT load range E tires and by towing slower on rough pavement.

So sure we all at times put undue stress on our hulls with no worries.  And I  think that our hulls are "NEAR" bullet proof.  So we can do so for a long time.  But it still is smart to go more gentle when we can.  Especially for the electronic's, refergerator, glassware, the ton of stuff in our wire shelves in the pantry, not to mention the frame, battery box, ............. etc.

Again thanks for your posts!

John   

[rideandfly]

7 hours ago, jd1923 said:

The 60 PSI number was ONLY cited as the spec limit on a Sendel trailer wheel. He purchased one for the spare tire, thinking of buying 4 more to replace the OEM wheels vs. restoring them. I believe the Oliver OEM wheels must be rated for 80 PSI (had a pic of the wheel label, can't find it today), also since OTT installed Load Range tires on them and wrote 80 PSI on the Oliver DOT label.

John,

The original 5 wheels on my LE2 were ION wheels with 60PSI maximum air pressure in the casting, following photo.

I finally decided to install four 15" Sendel S20T trailer wheels replacing the original ION wheels next year, instead of refinishing the original ION wheels.

https://www.sendelwheel.com/wheels/s20t.html

This is the 15" Sendel S20T with Goodyear Endurance ST225/75R/15 tire on the right that replaced the original 16" ION spare wheel with passenger tire on the left, both fit in the smaller fiberglass spare tire housing that will not accommodate a LT225/75R/16 tire/wheel assembly. 

 

Bill

 

[jd1923]

1 hour ago, rideandfly said:

The original 5 wheels on my LE2 were ION wheels with 60PSI maximum

This is the fact I got mixed up. I’m going to have to see what’s printed on our OEM wheels.

So OTT put 60 PSI wheels on Hull #75 in 2015! Does your hull have a DOT sticker stating 80 PSI! Mine does.

[rideandfly]

32 minutes ago, jd1923 said:

This is the fact I got mixed up. I’m going to have to see what’s printed on our OEM wheels.

So OTT put 60 PSI wheels on Hull #75 in 2015! Does your hull have a DOT sticker stating 80 PSI! Mine does.

It’s got the DOT tag, but I need to look at it, I don’t keep Ollie at home.

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, rideandfly said:

I finally decided to install four 15" Sendel S20T trailer wheels replacing the original ION wheels next year, instead of refinishing the original ION wheels.

https://www.sendelwheel.com/wheels/s20t.html

This is the 15" Sendel S20T with Goodyear Endurance ST225/75R/15 tire on the right that replaced the original 16" ION spare wheel with passenger tire on the left, both fit in the smaller fiberglass spare tire housing that will not accommodate a LT225/75R/16 tire/wheel assembly.

Good decision, Bill. Looks like you're upgrading in Load and PSI rating. I believe the ones you're buying are the 4th row on their website table, 15"x6" with a 6/5.5" bolt pattern. Big improvement at 3200 LB @ 95 PSI ratings! Not that we need a wheel that strong. That 60 PSI on the OEM wheels gets me.

S20-56655T-2+

101073

S1050-425CC / 46879

15X6

6/5.50

0

4.25

3200 @ 95 PSI

[mountainoliver]

Here’s a photo of the inside of my original 2017 (hull 208) wheels. You can zoom in and see all of the specifications including the 110 psi pressure rating and load rating for the wheel! I took the picture when the trailer was new and filed it for future reference.

[jd1923]

5 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

You can zoom in and see all of the specifications including the 110 psi pressure rating and load rating for the wheel!

Check it out. Ken’s wheel is also the SenDel brand. I remember a weight rating something like his wheel.

Looking at my exterior picture, I'll bet ours is a SenDel as well. You can see it has a simple face without all the studs like the ION wheel. Hull #75 is certainly a special one-off Oliver! 😎

Edited 6 hours ago by jd1923

[DanielBoondock]

18 hours ago, Geronimo John said:

First, I very much enjoy reading your posts.  Please do keep questioning and pushing the envelope in an effort for you, me, and others to truely understand the "WHY" question.

Glad to hear you are ditching the 1750's.  Doing so is half the quest.  The other half is deciding "What spring best suites our use of our OE2's"?  For what I believe is about 10% of owners, clearly the answer is the super strong and reliable Alcan 5-Leaf springs. 

You can see from my truck I'm not afraid to stick out like a sore thumb 😅Thanks for not taking offense. Really I'm just figuring this out for myself, I wasn't designed to take things for granted. 

On the 1750's I was a skeptic, then mostly a convert, but its still pending taking data. Here I'm a skeptic of airing down, don't expect to convert, but also am waiting for data. I suspect I'll end up with 1750's and 65 PSI, but we'll see. Most likely is it's much ado about nothing regardless I wonder. 

Quote

For the rest of us it is prudent not to "Over-Spring" our suspensions.  The obvious choices are either the Dexter 2400 four leaf or the Alcan four leaf.  If you are a 10%er that often puts their OE2 into structural gymnastics, great get the 3,000 pound Alcons.  If you don't live off-road then the four leaf is your best choice.  If you are budget inclined, as I and others are, then the Dexter 2400's is the answer.  But if you have the spare cash then why not go to is the Alcan 4-leaf springs. 

Yeah personal experience towing back from the factory to California was two things. One the trailer did feel a bit soft and bouncy. Two, I'm quite sure I bottomed out the trailer suspension hard on numerous occasions. Arizona freeways in particular were pretty bad. Terrible porpoising around Albuquerque with bottoming, and hard bottom hits elsewhere. So bad you heard the slam. Anecdotally hand waving, but this makes me suspect a too compliant suspension. If you're worried about jarring, bottoming out is the equivalent of dropping the trailer on the ground with no suspension - high G.

At any rate reality is a b*** and as an engineer I'll tell you even the engineers don't know. It's often as much experience and windage than having a hard result. Most of the time we do what's being discussed. Design with extra margin/buffer (e.g. higher rating on the suspension and higher PSI range than lower), then measure in typical conditions. If it looks good, cross your fingers, hope for the best and keep taking data 😅

[rideandfly]

11 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Check it out. Ken’s wheel is also the SenDel brand. I remember a weight rating something like his wheel.

Looking at my exterior picture, I'll bet ours is a SenDel as well. You can see it has a simple face without all the studs like the ION wheel. Hull #75 is certainly a special one-off Oliver! 😎

Yep, it's my understanding Oliver ran out of 3500lb axles & springs when they installed 5200lb axles & springs on #75. I can only guess the wheel & tire supplier made the mistake when supplying wheels for #75, we had the same original LT225/75R/16 Load Range E tires as many early LE2 Oliver owners.

My plan is to replace the ION wheels with 15" Sendel S20T trailer wheels with ST225/75R/15 tires mounted. The original 16" ION wheel's finish are in poor condition after 11 years. Going to check where I can get the best deal, Discount Tire will match wheel/tire prices. My goal is to have the same size/capacity wheel/tire as the spare tire (remember smaller spare tire housing on #75) using the same 15" ST tires Oliver currently installs on LE2 trailers. I will only lose about 1/2" of ground clearance.

Looks like it's legal changing trailer wheel/tire size if the change meets or exceeds the original wheel/tire capacities. AI agreed, too.

https://www.rvtravel.com/is-it-illegal-to-change-tire-type-or-size-on-an-rv-rvt-1086/

Sendel 15" S20T (S20-56655T-2+) wheel's capacity is 3200lbs @ 95psi.

https://www.sendelwheel.com/wheels/s20t.html

Edited just now by rideandfly