Upgrading the MPPT SC for Suitcase Solar

[jd1923]

Working on adding Suitcase Solar, one without built-in SC, in the range of 220W to 400W. I need to upgrade our MPPT SC to handle additional solar amperage.

We have 340W rooftop Zamp panels and a Blue Sky MPPT 25A SC and this system has worked flawlessly during 14 months of our ownership. Recently upgraded to 600AH Epoch LiFePO4 and Victron 3KVA MP2 inverter. We boondock more than camp on shore power. Want to be able to run A/C on inverter occasionally during afternoon hours.

The common route would be to replace the Blue Sky system with a higher amperage MPPT SC. If we add 220W in solar a 50A SC would work. If we go with the beastly 400W suitcase, it would just be over the 50A spec and would have to go to 70A. Upgrade would be a Victron product.

Here's where I would like opinions. I can scrap the Blue Sky but had another thought. What if I left the OEM install as-is, been working fine for 8 years, and just added another MPPT SC for the suitcase. It would just be off when suitcase not attached. This would be a redundant system so if one was to fail the other independent system would not be affected.I'm not into fancy integration. No Victron Lynx or Cerbo or Victron displays in our hull. I will just use the VictronConnect app as I do for the SmartShunt BM and VE.bus connection to the MP2. I am not interested in any Wi-Fi connections for remote monitoring, Bluetooth range is fine. If I go to an independent system, all I need is 10 AWG cabling, Anderson PowerPole connectors, a fuse/breaker and smaller 30A MPPT SC would do for much less money. My understanding is two MPPT SCs can work in parallel just like the SC and DC converter on shore power can charge simultaneously.

This model is $260 less than the 70A version. What do you think?
Amazon.com: Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth) - Charge Controllers for Solar Panels - 100V, 30 amp, 12/24-Volt : Patio, Lawn & Garden

[Rolind]

I think either of your two options is acceptable and I have used both methods on different trailers. With two separate charge controllers you get less expense and system redundancy in case one solar system goes down. I suppose you could argue that using only one charge controller would be a “cleaner” installation, I don’t really think so however. One other thing to consider, if you run only one charge controller, solar panel outputs need to be very similar or you won’t get full charging from the higher power panels.  There are great videos available on YouTube explaining mismatched solar panels. Happy Trails.

[mountainoliver]

John, that’s approximately what I do for my suitcase solar. I wasn’t real pleased with the SAE plug being used for repeated connection disconnection so I added a secure two prong Cnlinko socket to the outside of the trailer. The Cnlinko plugs have a stainless latch that secures the connection.The Cnlinko socket is connected through a 10 amp fuse directly to the shunt for the Blue Sky solar controller. The Blue Sky IPN Pro remote displays all of the battery input information such as roof mounted solar, shore power battery charger, and the suitcase solar panels. I removed the solar controller that came with the suitcase panels and plug it in to the trailer and then plug the panels into the controller using the generic solar plugs. This allows a little bit higher voltage from the panels to travel the long distance from the panels to the controller. The wires from the controller are only about two feet long so less loss. All wiring is #10. The box that the controller is in is not waterproof so I just set it on top of the tire under the fender skirt. This idea was originally developed by John Davies. 

[mossemi]

4 hours ago, jd1923 said:

We have 340W rooftop Zamp panels and a Blue Sky MPPT 25A SC

I am in my natural state of confusion and I was trying to figure out why you have 340W of roof top solar panels.  Was your Ollie ordered with solar or was it installed after the initial delivery?  I ask this because I am the second owner of #193 and my solar system was original equipment and has a Zamp 30A PWM CC and 2 - 160W Zamp solar panels.  I do believe that the panels were re-rated sometime around Dometic's acquisition of Zamp.

Mossey

[jd1923]

Thanks @Rolind, @mountainoliver and @rideandfly.
I ran a test today. Ran the old dog Dometic 13.5 Penguin II at the heat of the day on inverter only for 3:15 hours, thermostat set at 78 and the high today was 94.

The 600AH new Epoch batteries got down to 27% SOC. Turned the MP2 inverter off at 3PM. It's now 5:20, using only the 340W rooftop solar and the Blue Sky SC, SOC is now 32%. Not much gain.

I want to let it sit rooftop solar only until say 2PM tomorrow to see what it gets up to. We don't summer camp so normally we'd only run A/C late afternoon anyway. Also, the plan is to very soon replace the Dometic. The new Atmos runs on half the power, show upon efficient A/C upgrade I should get twice the runtime. Today the PII A/C was using between 1600-1800W for 3:15 hours.

The basement area under the streetside bed is where the Blue Sky was installed and also where I installed the Victron MP2 inverter. The VE.Bus Bluetooth controller mounted close to the Blue Sky read 103 degrees. I installed a Beech Lane dual fan in there, but it was off. I turned it on, and temp dropped 8-10 degrees. The MP2 was warm/hot as I could put the palm of my hand on it fully. The Blue Sky SC was VERY hot, could not place my palm on it for long. I don't think it even has a vent. I think I should get the Victron 30A for a new suitcase and perhaps later buy another one to replace the Blue Sky when it burns up!

@mountainoliver, I was looking at Anderson Powerpole connectors, had already rulled out the Zamp/SAE style. I'm going to check into CNLINKO. Good idea to shorten that distance. I'm definitely going with a MPPT SC installed interior.

[jd1923]

2 minutes ago, mossemi said:

I am in my natural state of confusion and I was trying to figure out why you have 340W of roof top solar panels.  Was your Ollie ordered with solar or was it installed after the initial delivery?  I ask this because I am the second owner of #193 and my solar system was original equipment and has a Zamp 30A PWM CC and 2 - 160W Zamp solar panels.  I do believe that the panels were re-rated sometime around Dometic's acquisition of Zamp.

Mossey

Mike, I believe mine was OTT installed. I have two OTT service receipts, dated 2018 and 2020, other receipts for tires, batteries etc. and nothing showing solar. See my Blue Sky system (see pic1).

One odd thing though. When I removed the Xantrex 2KW inverter (no charger on our Xantrex like some newer hulls), the yellow 4 or 6 AWG ground strap had a 2018 date on it. That's weird on a 2016 hull! Maybe the inverter was replaced.

My solar panels have serial numbers starting with 'Z' (see pic2) and when I searched online the newer Zamp 170W panels came up. I'm not absolutely sure of the 170W each rating. I also remember prior owner advertising that number, but they could be 160W. Maybe, I can contact Zamp re the serial number.

[mountainoliver]

John, the Blue Sky solar controller is supposed to be mounted vertically (I think according to the manual) but that’s not practical every time. I added a fan and a snap type temperature sensor. I don’t remember the on and off temps but typically this type of sensor has a 30 deg dead band. The fan only draws about a tenth of an amp and run it on a one amp fuse. I added some slots in the plastic box for the air to pass through and this setup has made a huge difference in the temperature. 

[Rolind]

I think that it will take a very large solar panel array to be able to reliably recharge your batteries after any significant AC use thru your inverter.  I’ve played around with our system running the AC at night for 8hrs with 400w solar and 640 amp-hrs of lithium from the factory. Even if we had double our solar wattage, I think it would take 8-10 hrs of full perfect angled  sun exposure in the summer to replace what the AC consumed overnight.  Although running a generator is less desirable, our EU2200 could likely bring the batteries back to near full in 2-3 hrs and solar could top of the last 10-20% throughout the course of the day.  If it it hot and humid when we camp, we try to have shore power or go north, or to elevation out west.

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Rolind said:

I think that it will take a very large solar panel array to be able to reliably recharge your batteries after any significant AC use thru your inverter.

Yes, you have a good point. Not wanting to carry a generator though. I just need to get enough in solar upgrades with a more efficient A/C to run it 2-3 hours in the late afternoons. Looks like I should get the 400W suitcase! We do have the advantage of being mostly sunny and dry in the SW for most of our travels. 

Edited August 16 by jd1923

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Rolind said:

to replace what the AC consumed overnight.

Understood. Down here we need AC when the sun is hot, only late afternoons. It cools off at altitude every night, so windows are open later. It was high of 94 today and at 10PM it's 75. Nice evening now and the low will be 65 by dawn.

[mossemi]

12 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Maybe, I can contact Zamp re the serial number.

I think the ratings label on the underside may have that value.

Mossey

[rideadeuce]

18 hours ago, jd1923 said:

Working on adding Suitcase Solar, one without built-in SC, in the range of 220W to 400W. I need to upgrade our MPPT SC to handle additional solar amperage.

We have 340W rooftop Zamp panels and a Blue Sky MPPT 25A SC and this system has worked flawlessly during 14 months of our ownership. Recently upgraded to 600AH Epoch LiFePO4 and Victron 3KVA MP2 inverter. We boondock more than camp on shore power. Want to be able to run A/C on inverter occasionally during afternoon hours.

The common route would be to replace the Blue Sky system with a higher amperage MPPT SC. If we add 220W in solar a 50A SC would work. If we go with the beastly 400W suitcase, it would just be over the 50A spec and would have to go to 70A. Upgrade would be a Victron product.

Here's where I would like opinions. I can scrap the Blue Sky but had another thought. What if I left the OEM install as-is, been working fine for 8 years, and just added another MPPT SC for the suitcase. It would just be off when suitcase not attached. This would be a redundant system so if one was to fail the other independent system would not be affected.I'm not into fancy integration. No Victron Lynx or Cerbo or Victron displays in our hull. I will just use the VictronConnect app as I do for the SmartShunt BM and VE.bus connection to the MP2. I am not interested in any Wi-Fi connections for remote monitoring, Bluetooth range is fine. If I go to an independent system, all I need is 10 AWG cabling, Anderson PowerPole connectors, a fuse/breaker and smaller 30A MPPT SC would do for much less money. My understanding is two MPPT SCs can work in parallel just like the SC and DC converter on shore power can charge simultaneously.

This model is $260 less than the 70A version. What do you think?
Amazon.com: Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT Solar Charge Controller (Bluetooth) - Charge Controllers for Solar Panels - 100V, 30 amp, 12/24-Volt : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I think that is all you need (up to 400W), it would work perfectly. Have you ever looked at Goal Zero products. Worth a gander. 

Edited August 16 by rideadeuce

[Ronbrink]

16 hours ago, mountainoliver said:

I wasn’t real pleased with the SAE plug being used for repeated connection disconnection so I added a secure two prong Cnlinko socket to the outside of the trailer. The Cnlinko plugs have a stainless latch that secures the connection.The Cnlinko socket is connected through a 10 amp fuse

I bought two of the Furrion 10A Solar Charge power ports with the Cnlinko plugs last year in anticipation of future portable solar panel usage. Since the wires are 10 AWG on these ports, why only a 10A rating for this Furrion/Cnlinko combo? Can you state the total watts of your suitcase setup, I’m looking at the Renogy 400W Lightweight Portable and would like to make use of these ports if possible. Thanks.

[rich.dev]

19 hours ago, jd1923 said:

If we go with the beastly 400W suitcase, it would just be over the 50A spec and would have to go to 70A. Upgrade would be a Victron product.

I added this 400W Renogy solar panel and Victron MPPT 100/30 CC, the CC was sized using this charge controller calculator from Explorist.Life/Nate. 
 

Pic of the stock 100/50 and 100/30 that I added for the 400W panel.

Edited August 16 by rich.dev

[rideandfly]

John,

We do not have factory solar on our LE2.

Like mentioned in another thread, our solar suitcase system has evolved over the years. With a single 100AH Battleborn lithium battery and Ollie not being equipped with a 12V/120V inverter, our power use is low. We do use a Honda 2000 gen-set on poor solar days and in eastern US when it's hot & humid in the lower elevations we head to higher elevations to cool off when away from shore power.

Tried MPPT SC with two 100W panels and PMW SC with one 100W panel.  Currently using a single 100AH lithium battery with a PMW SC & one 100W panel works fine for us.

Right now we're using a waterproof Renogy solar controller and waterproof Victron Bluetooth shunt (updated to a waterproof shunt when you mentioned in another thread you had one).  Mounted everything on a 1/4" plastic board secured to the Battleborn battery with a nylon strap and locked in at the base between the battery and horizontal plastic board in the bottom of the battery tray and also leave compartment vents open during the summer.

Edited August 16 by rideandfly

[Ronbrink]

16 hours ago, jd1923 said:

I was looking at Anderson Powerpole connectors

I actually bought these and returned them prior to buying the Furrion solar ports. Although these flush mount AP ports came with a rubber protective cap for a water tight seal when not in use, there was no moisture protection when in use. The Cnlinko connectors are said to be waterproof and the Furrion lid will further aid in shedding water.

[jd1923]

3 hours ago, mossemi said:

I think the ratings label on the underside may have that value.

Mossey

I don't remember any other label on ours than the serial number pictured. I have to get back up there this week, pull the A/C cover to see what model soft start we have to determine if it's reusable with an A/C upgrade. I'll look again. Thanks

[rideandfly]

Like how Furrion ports are moisture resistant. When installing a 20A Zamp port in the 10A Furrion port, was able to retain the moisture resistance.

Original before modification:

After modification:

Someone called it to my attention that my 10A Furrion port was now a 20A port, a new label fixed that.

Edited August 16 by rideandfly

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

I bought two of the Furrion 10A Solar Charge power ports with the Cnlinko plugs last year in anticipation of future portable solar panel usage. Since the wires are 10 AWG on these ports, why only a 10A rating for this Furrion/Cnlinko combo? Can you state the total watts of your suitcase setup, I’m looking at the Renogy 400W Lightweight Portable and would like to make use of these ports if possible. Thanks.

The outlet itself must have its own rating, based on the resistance of connecting hardware, so if it's stated as 10A that is its max rating. If it truly has 10 AWG wires, that's an odd design since 14 AWG is enough for 10A. I understand the reason for your question!

I just ordered this, a CNLINKO rated at 25A with specs that state it requires 12 AWG wiring: CNLINKO BD-24 Industrial Waterproof Connector IP67 Circular Connector Device-Side Fast Plugging Connector Metal Aviation Connector Anti-Interference Shell Connector M24 Flange Socket (2 Pin): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

I believe 12 AWG is all that's needed for a 20A circuit, and 10 AWG is required for 30A. I will double-check my numbers. Sure, buy 10 AWG for a short installation since the cost diff is small. Though I have a spool of stranded 12 AWG and will use it if OK.

I do not have an OTT installed Zamp port, so I am going to use the rear opening that was designed for RV-park cable TV connection. It has a 1/2" hole and this CNLINKO requires a 3/4" opening. I have a good 3/4" bit but will wait until I receive this CNLINKO device to determine its feasibility and quality.

The only issue I foresee is this housing is very small. It will not cover the original 4 screw holes. In my case the outlet removed was 2x2" and this one is only 30mm approx. 1.2". A cover plate could be used or perhaps this CNLINKO outlet could be built into your Zamp housing. I will fill the old screw holes and given the less-obvious location behind the rear bumper likely call it good.

Can anybody suggest a good product to fill screw holes in fiberglass? I've never been or wanted to be the body shop guy!

[jd1923]

4 hours ago, rich.dev said:

I added this 400W Renogy solar panel and Victron MPPT 100/30 CC, the CC was sized using this charge controller calculator from Explorist.Life/Nate.

Pic of the stock 100/50 and 100/30 that I added for the 400W panel.

Thanks Rich. Does it feel heavy to setup? (30.2 LBS) I was looking at the same item.

So, OTT installed the Victron 100/50 for the rooftop solar? That was overkill as the 100/30 is fine for either. Do your SCs ever feel very hot at the heat of the day?

I like your dual installation. I've ordered and will install the 100/30 for the suitcase and if the Blue Sky SC needs replacing, I will add a second one. I have a lot of room now on a HDPE mounting board where OTT had installed our 2KW Xantrex inverter under the rear dinette seat.

Just checked the company that @rideadeuce suggested and their Nomad 400 Powerful Portable Solar Panel | Goal Zero I do not see enough value in the extra $300. The Goal Zero is also 6.4 LBS heavier, likely from more substantial legs (one pro). One picture bothered me where the panels look warped. Also, Amazon has the Renogy used VERY GOOD for $60 less ($541) which usually means a returned item with packaging damage. For me every dollar counts!

[Ronbrink]

1 hour ago, jd1923 said:

If it truly has 10 AWG wires

Upon a side-by-side comparison to both 10 and 12 AWG wires on hand, the Furrion leads proved to be 12 AWG rather than 10 AWG, as previously thought to be. You are correct, 12 AWG - 20A, 10 AWG - 30A. Furthermore, the Furrion Installation Instructions state ‘Use only 10-12 AWG or above cable with this product. Using a smaller AWG cable will result in overheating and possible Fire Hazard.’ Thanks for helping me get the facts straight and out there for others to glean.

 

[rideadeuce]

https://goalzero.com/collections/portable-solar-power-accessories/products/hpp-solar-bulkhead-

this bulkhead inlet is actually just for charging the GZ Pro4000. I remember now the reason I kept the SAE outside connector is because it is almost universal and lots of adapters available. You can charge in to the batteries with Solar or use energy to run things like water pump, fans, etc. There is a HPP to SAE connector. If you are in to boon docking  GZ should be on your radar.

inlethttps://goalzero.com/collections/portable-solar-power-accessories/products/mc4-solar-to-hpp-adapter-

https://goalzero.com/products/high-power-port-30ft-extension-cable?_pos=2&_psq=hpp+cable&_ss=e&_v=1.0

cablehttps://goalzero.com/collections/open-box-product/products/ranger-300-briefcase-open-box 

The Nomad series is made to be lightweight, the Ranger series is more comparable with rigid frame... it's all about the connections too... analogous to having USB-C for everything (MB, iPhone, iPad). HPP is great to use with solar generator, solar panels, etc. Less cables to buy and carry. 

 

Edited August 16 by rideadeuce

[jd1923]

12 minutes ago, rideadeuce said:

HPP is great to use with solar generator, solar panels, etc. Less cables to buy and carry. 

Very nice! These accessories are certainly something to consider! Thanks again, Mike. Their "HPP+ Solar Bulkhead Inlet" would be a great replacement for the OTT installed Zamp port. I could not quickly find dimensions, but it appears it would cover those messy screw holes and have enough surface to use VHB tape instead of the included screws. At 45A and 10 AWG, it's higher grade than necessary but at $45 is reasonable for the quality and the hinged cover plate makes for a clean install.

I like their 30 FT extension too, maybe pricey at $60. Notice it is 12 AWG which s/b fine for a 400W suitcase where the SC is in the hull. With the addition of something like this (or a short one) you'd be all set: Amazon.com: Bateria Power 10FT 10AWG Solar Panel Cable Connector to Anderson Adapter Compatible with Anderson Generator Power Station, for Goal Zero Yeti Portable Outdoor Camping (3M Vertical) : Patio, Lawn & Garden

This Amazon listing mentions Goal Zero. Also notice it can be ordered in vertical layout vs. the more common horizontal. I immediately thought the HPP is merely a vertically configured Anderson Powerpole connection. This video confirmed my assumption.

 

 

[rideadeuce]

@jd1923 carry on, don't let me mess you up. The bulkhead inlet I linked is for the Pro4K only unless you splice the wire. I feel like you have a good grasp of what you want and need. I do have a bias towards GZ stuff. Been using it since 2007.

[mountainoliver]

Ronbrink, why am I using a 10 amp fuse? My portable solar panels are 100 watts total. That’s all I needed. I haven’t looked at the plug/socket amp rating but that may be 10 amps.

Edited August 16 by mountainoliver
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