NO BRAKES ; 2019 Oliver Elite II-Hull #448

[Mike and Carol]

16 minutes ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

Those who have or had electric braking issues... how were yours resolved? 

My brake issue was resolved after I posted my issue on this forum and another owner offered that he had the same issue and what he did to solve the problem.    It turns out that it was a Dexter issue of excess wire wear due to how they ran/configured the brake wires.  Several other owners have also had this issue.  It will be interesting to see what your mobile tech finds out.

[jd1923]

2 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

We are in the Desert.  No moisture issues here.

No corrosion,  Do not blame the messenger. When this problem is discovered and resolved... I will be the first to mention it.  No salted roads in the Summer months.

Take a close-up pic of the 7-blade plug on your Oliver. Have you used dielectric grease? We have that iron-oxide dirt out here in the desert.

I wonder when this issue happened for you. Why was it working last year but not now. What has changed?

I believe power to the brakes at the wheels comes to the first wheel (front-streetside?) and then they are daisy-chained, front to back and down each axle to get to the curbside. I may be wrong as this is from memory from two years ago when I replaced wheel bearing and all the electrical crimp parts.

If this is true, to have NO brakes, there must be an open before the first wheel. If the wire down the axle is bad (open) it would affect only one wheel.

I'm also opposed to the camp that has replaced the interior axle wire to one zip-tied behind the axle. Now you have annual zip-tie maintenance and the chance of the wire being damaged by highway or offroad debris. I would use the old axle wire to pull a new one that is a step heavier AWG and one with heavy water-proof insulation like wire rated for burial purposes.

[Galway Girl]

5 hours ago, mossemi said:

hot side of the of the 20A auto resetting breaker

Oh yes....it does show that on the schematic.  Sorry for the red herring.

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

M&C... I read those Threads and they were my first to check out.  It is also the first place to look on Airstream wiring.  Most often the exposed wires catch onto something and pulls them apart.  Seeing the bundles of WIRING folded up inside the Dexter Axle Tube has no excuse.  Poor supervision, or the wire has to be so many FEET LONG.  

Checked the outside wiring for any loose connections.  Then did the Spin the Wheels on each side in the Air... pulled the Brake Away Switch... and ALL FOUR brakes operated perfectly.  Reinserted the pin... they spun freely.  That resolved the shorted brake wires, unless I missed something.  If this removes the worn insulation option... it does narrow things down. To what?  I may soon find out once a technician gets out his electronic equipment.  🙂

The Mechanical visual checks I was able to do.  Now it is the... what and where is the Trailer/Vehicle  problem or issue?  From posts I have read... ground issues.  Wife and I checked each other's visual and tested wires screwed down. Those in the two photographs.

I was told by Olive Inc. there was Brake Wiring behind the wall in the Bathroom.  We removed that several days ago and no wires, but solid tubing probably to run wires into the trailer.

I did notice a decently done white caulk on the back side of the Oliver Plug.  Most likely to Seal the exiting bundle for any water. We live in the Desert.  Water and Salt issues have been ruled out 99%.  Maybe from Oliver Inc..  I have no Oliver known in the area, so can do anything else.

This will get resolved.  I hope soon.  

[BoondockingAirstream]

Gatway Girl and I most likely have the same wiring for brakes as theirs is Hull 505. Made within a week or so from one another?

Also a F350 Diesel King Ranch... mine is a 2016.  

[jd1923]

6 minutes ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

Checked the outside wiring for any loose connections.  Then did the Spin the Wheels on each side in the Air... pulled the Brake Away Switch... and ALL FOUR brakes operated perfectly.  Reinserted the pin... they spun freely.

Yes, this means brake wiring at all 4 wheels are good.

And given you have tested for brake voltage at the rear of the truck or same day the truck pulled the airstream brakes working, you have an open circuit between the 7-blade plug on the Oliver and the first wheel.

[BoondockingAirstream]

jd1923...  Which?  Front  street or curb side wheel?  Probably the street side with the Progressive Dynamics box?

I did see the 1" diameter or so, black electrical cord, on the bottom floor behind the bathroom wall.  It is way down and low.  This same cord seems to go into the Progressive Dynamics: Automatic Transfer Relay 5100 Series.

My education is making some 'head way', but being ignorant is my only defense.

(Added:  The brakes never worked.  Since the Tow Vehicle works perfectly on the Airstream, I figured it was some quirk in an Oliver and F350 combination.

 

Edited Friday at 06:42 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

I searched www.progressivedyn.com and entered my 5100 Series name and "No matching records found".  Found a PD5118610 on the side and those 4 digits do not come up with anything as...  It is the black 'box' in one of the photographs. They show a metal junction container with cooling fins.  And a Fan.  Called a converter on their website.  Must be somewhere else... but so far a black plastic box that you cannot miss.

I appreciate any help.  Just to track down anything obvious, but not bothering wiring or connections.  Like entering a Coal Mine and someone wants to light up a cigarette... is also not a good idea.

Any help is greatly appreciated by myself and others who are curious.  Going back into the OLIVER to... sniff around,

[BoondockingAirstream]

In this same second area under the seat where the PD5118610 is located there is also a Smart Surge.  There is a woven cover in black, at the bottom corner, where is is truncated about five inches from the box.  May be in the photograph of the components in one photo.

Smart Surge EMS-HW30C

I am going to contact Progressive Dynamics and inquire to cure my ignorance, if possible.

Those who do not have an issue... may want to help someone who does.  I need the help.  You could in the future.

[jd1923]

34 minutes ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

jd1923...  Which?  Front  street or curb side wheel?  Probably the street side with the Progressive Dynamics box?

I did see the 1" diameter or so, black electrical cord, on the bottom floor behind the bathroom wall.  It is way down and low.  This same cord seems to go into the Progressive Dynamics: Automatic Transfer Relay 5100 Series.

My education is making some 'head way', but being ignorant is my only defense.

(Added:  The brakes never worked.  Since the Tow Vehicle works perfectly on the Airstream, I figured it was some quirk in an Oliver and F350 combination.

Just from memory I believe the first wheel in line is the front streetside wheel.

No, the <1" DIA cable is the 10/3 shore power cable coming from the front generator connection. The "Progressive Dynamics: Automatic Transfer Relay 5100 Series" switches between the 2 shore connections, front or streetside, to the one that is live.

Your 7-wire trailer cable likely enters the front of your Oliver hull right next to the 10/3 shore power cable. If you get your head under where the LP tanks are mounted you could see the entry points.

[BoondockingAirstream]

Called Progressive Engineering and discovered THEIR HARDWARE and wiring coming in and out have:

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BRAKING SYSTEM.

Drew explained to me what their system is for... nothing to do with brakes.  Internal electrical system for the interior components.  Scratched that off my observations.

If you have an inside power issue: 269-781-4241. Service Department

[BoondockingAirstream]

Airstream 2019 uses a Borgman a female plug into the Tow Vehicle.  It appears the wiring is molded into the plug... solid cable and secure.  Probably made just for the length of the trailer and has the Plug molded on and the length of cable required for the length needed.

Oliver Elite II 2019 uses a Pollack that secures the cable... AFTER?... the wiring is secured within the interior.  Totally opposite to the Airstream process?  The white caulk sealing the cable exiting is nice quality, seals the cable going into the plug,  Why I ask?

Totally different methods.  I prefer the Airstream as the Plug and Wires seem to be MOLDED to secure the wiring. The Oliver secures the wires AFTER installation.  I do not know, but sure looks like this could be an issue.  

If Oliver Inc. had a Service call from the FIRST owner about braking... but did not mention anything to me on my phone call, and after being on hold for five minutes.. and then said they could nothing to help me.  I am would believe they record all calls going out, or in.

Maybe this is an Oliver Trailer Plug issue?  Anyone had an issue?  Or am I unique?

Anyone have to replace an Oliver Trailer Plug to Tow Vehicle?  I am getting curious.  Will know in a few days, but something just makes no sense. When something makes no sense... this makes me more curious.  

Curiosity killed the Cat... kind of thing.  Go for the simple solutions and then proceed.  You cannot get any simpler than the Plug INTO the Tow Vehicle.

 

 

Edited Friday at 08:03 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

After eliminating the Progressive system... it has nothing to do with trailer/tow vehicle Electric Brakes.

But... my wife is a Human Bean and methodical.  We did agree on one very simple issue that I cannot test due to not having the equipment.

Let's say the previous owner knew little about towing, travel trailers and no aptitude to fix... anything.  If the electric vacuum quits... it is tossed and replaced.  I take it apart to find the problem... then if it is beyond repair... out it goes.

Let's say the new owner had perfect braking when connected at the factory lot.  Never towed before, but everything worked.  Maybe not.  When at home, he detaches at the RV Storage.

Returns to go camping, and  he, or the storage employee attaches the Oliver to the owner's tow vehicle, going in or out to where the trailer is stored,  

The cable is a bit long, so the cable may have been wrapped... to take up some slack. The cable will not drag on the ground... but if you make a sharp turn... it will tug onto the plug and connection.  It is very secure at the plug connection.  Possibly pulling out the wire shown on an earlier post in wonderful color. Then no braking.  The repair shop could not figure it out.  Just towed it, maybe not, as it was very clean and I paid through the nostrils... for its wonderful physical condition.

Even my lovely wife agreed with this possibility.  I always have slack towing the Airstream on this cable.  The Oliver plug has its weakness.  It is not molded into the plug.  It is attached and then a screw snugs things up

Well... I think my sniffing around from complex to a simple cause may be coming. I will check the length of the Airstream and Oliver cables outside the interior.  For the 'want of a nail, the war was lost'... was something I heard as a young Neanderthal. We will see...

 

 

Edited Friday at 09:37 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[BoondockingAirstream]

I left a message with the Mobile Service Company to have a new replacement 7 way RV Plug, in the event this is the problem.  Otherwise... I am finished with my discovery of complicated to simple.  

Working forward to the 7 Way Plug, as the most convenient problem.

The Oliver has 28 inches of cable to the end of the 7 way plug.

My Airstream has 27 inches of cable to the end of the 7 way plug.

So the cable lengths are close to identical.  Rather too long, than too short.  But... it comes down to the Plug in my opinion.  If not the plug... then that is a 'horse of a different color'.  With the feedback from other owners... maybe we all are coming to the same conclusion. For me... it would be an expensive solution, but I will watch the service tech and learn something in the process.

(I edit AFTER I WRITE.  An idea is like watching a movie in color.  If I do not get it out of my imagination in print... the ideas disappear.)

Edited Friday at 09:39 PM by BoondockingAirstream

[Steph and Dud B]

6 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

I did notice a decently done white caulk on the back side of the Oliver Plug.  Most likely to Seal the exiting bundle for any water.

 

4 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

Airstream 2019 uses a Borgman a female plug into the Tow Vehicle.  It appears the wiring is molded into the plug.

 

4 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

Oliver Elite II 2019 uses a Pollack that secures the cable... AFTER?... the wiring is secured within the interior.  

This is NOT Oliver factory equipment. Oliver uses a molded plug/cable combination like Airstream, and no caulk. Sounds to me like your trailer has an aftermarket replacement plug on it, similar to this one: https://a.co/d/hD8H9JV  If you disassemble that Pollak plug you'll probably find screw terminals inside. The one for the brake wire may be loose or corroded.

[SeaDawg]

My experience with electric brakes is, they mostly work.

We did have an issue back in 2008 or 9. Mostly going down mountain," nc " would pop up on the tekonsha. Certainly,  unsettling.

Turned out to be a loose ground wire .

Couldn't blame anyone but us, as we drove /drive a lot of rough paths. 

No problem since. Same Tekonsha. Moved it from 2004 Volvo to 2005 Chevy to 2008 dodge ram. Guessing we are driving more "vintage" vehicles than you are. They are actually pretty simple mechanisms, all things considered.

Since your brakes appear to work properly with the Airstream connected, you likely have a bad connection somewhere in your Oliver. 

Please keep us posted on what the mobile tech discovers.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:53 AM by SeaDawg
Spelling

[SeaDawg]

4 hours ago, BoondockingAirstream said:

 It is not molded into the plug.  It is attached and then a screw snugs things up

This is not factory, imo.

And may very well be  at least a part of your issue, if not the entire issue.