Boondocking? ... Can we agree on WHAT is Boondocking?

[BoondockingAirstream]

I took a group of Airstream owners on an Off the Grid and Base Camp caravan into western Wyoming.  If you take the Teton/Jackson Hole/Idaho State Line area and go East to Cody for the top and south to Alpine on the west side and Farson on the east side... this large square... sorta.  Ten days. Five campsites.  From 6000 feet to 9,000 feet elevation.  National Forest and Bureau of Land Management sites.

 

Eleven started and Five finished the ten days in the Wyoming 'wilderness'.  The 'Adventure' was for myself to guide everyone TO the five locations, explain over a period of one year on a website what to expect and had a detailed Itinerary of where we were going and WHAT they could do... if they wanted in these areas.

 

- Some had a mental vision of Boondocking as a catered event with flushing toilets, showers and a camp staff available for touring the area.

 

- Some had a mental vision of Boondocking as a tour guide taking a large group to visit specific sites and entertainment at night.

 

- The 'Five Survivors' as I call them understood what a Boondocking Adventure was and made the best of the trip.

 

Mind you... this was at NO CHARGE, I provided maps, designated campsites I was familiar over a period of ten years as the Best and provided Hospital information, Dump Stations and National Forest Service offices for local maps... if needed.  FREE.  Yet... some expected the top two options.

 

HERE is your assignment.  There are no trick questions.  We want to find where we agree and disagree as to the definitions of the next FOUR camping options:

 

1- Boondocking:

 

2- Base Camping:

 

3- Off the Grid:

 

4- Boondocking Adventure Off the Grid / Base Camping:

 

Olivers are 100%+ capable of doing all of the above.  This is not RV Parks, pay to camp with a picnic table and pit toilet, Walmart parking over night (as this can be as good as a RV Park), and catered events you pay $150 a day and get someone with a banjo sing to your for an hour each evening.

 

What are your definitions of the above four camping options?  There are no wrong answers... or even right answers.  This is a 'learning exercise' at my expense of tent camping and now hauling a 25 foot trailer behind my pickup truck.  What would you expect on each option?  Where are you in the spectrum of using your Oliver... as of this moment?  Have you taken your Oliver out and camped #'s 1 thru 4?

 

IF the brave step forward and make this a Thread worthy of discussion... I will also post a series of photographs of WHAT each of these kinds of sites that fit MY definition.  This is for FUN. There is no Final Exam.  There are no Quizzes.  We cannot have 'mountainborn' do all of the work here.  Some of you need to step up and get Oliver's out there where they belong... ANYwhere and EVERYwhere.

[BoondockingAirstream]

I added two photographs of the Wyoming Adventure.  One is in the National Forest near Lander, Wyoming and the second is on Bureau of Land Management near Jeffery City, Wyoming.  Both extremes of a National Forest site and the other on the Wyoming High Plains.

 

Now... it is your turn to provide YOUR photos, YOUR definitions and tell everyone how your Oliver provided everything you would have needed in such remote locations.

 

Camping with your Oliver and my Airstream has come a long, long way from your Grandpa's days....

[John E Davies]

I feel that I can't say too much in this thread since I do not yet own an Oliver. However, I love the concept of pure "back country self-sufficiency". Both of the locations in your pictures would suit me perfectly .....  IF there were no other campers besides yours own. Or certainly, none within sight or sound.

 

I am interested to hear from Oliver owners about this.  Maybe I will be able to contribute my own comments by next summer.

 

 

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[BoondockingAirstream]

John, thank you for your interest.

 

Oliver is 7 feet wide, while the narrowest Airstream is 8 feet. All other Airstreams are a bit under 8 feet six inches.  This gives the Oliver an advantage to slip through those tight spots where larger trailers would have to spend time and clip overhanging branches.

 

So you want to see 'no other campers within sight'... Check these out.  Both taken in Nevada... I do not see any Desert nor other campers out here!

 

Oliver owners... Nevada is wide open for camping, if you have a Nevada Atlas to navigate to these locations.  We were looking for Cambrian trilobites and had to squeeze through some Juniper Pines.  This was our 23 foot Airstream which is the narrowest Airstream at 8 feet.

 

Both photographs were taken the first week of MAY.  See the snow... plan your trips well as you can run into last Winter's snow drifts in Nevada and Wyoming!

[Commanche]

Ray Ekland, is that you? If not sure sounds like him, I follow all his stuff over on the Airstream forum, enjoy his writing and style. Have not done any of his trips, but would sure like too. Wife is not too keen on getting off the beaten path by ourselves, but with a small group, would go for it. We see all these BLM roads and I just want to see where they go, stay a couple of days or more and go on to the next one. Lets go.

 

Stan

[BoondockingAirstream]

Stan... you have great taste in reading material!  I will use your reference to pull up some of my favorite topics that Airstream owners find important.

 

Airstream owners have several major topics they consistently bring up:

 

Typical Question:  Toilet Paper clogging up their Black Tank, what should I do?

 

Answer:  Put all toilet paper used into the trash can next to the stool.  No paper down the hatch, you do not have to get your arm into the Black Tank to find the problem.

 

Typical Question:  My Marathon trailer tires keep coming apart, wear irregular or have blow outs.

 

Answer:  Buy an Oliver.  It has 16" Michelins.  E Rated.  Or replace your D Rated 15" with 16" wheels and 16" Michelin LTX M/S2 tires... like Olivers.

 

Typical Question:  Should I have my propane refrigerator operate while pumping gasoline?  Could I cause an explosion?

 

Answer:  More people die from Food Poisoning.  Not from exploding refrigerators near a gasoline pump.  Your trailer's refrigerator ignition system is 20 feet or more from your vehicle's fuel tank entry.  Maybe you should stay home and worry about meteorites impacting your swimming pool.

 

Typical Question:  My tow vehicle is a converted riding lawn mower.  Do I need a license plate on my riding lawn mower while towing my 30 foot trailer?

 

Answer:  No.  You do not need to put plates on your riding lawn mower while towing your trailer.  What you do require is an AM/FM radio while you are towing and I include a photograph of my tow vehicle.  This is what Ethanol can do to your paint job, while pumping gasoline.  ... and please.  Detach your trailer when mowing your yard.  Been there. Done it.

 

Of course, some of these Q&A's are spoofs... some are not.  Let you serious Boondockers figure it out.  And Stan... this is our secret.  OK?

 

 

[John E Davies]

I am most interested in finding out how well the stock Oliver suspension and ground clearance works for these kinds of secondary forest/ ranch roads. It sure looks to me as if the departure angle is minimal at best, and the steps might clip a tree stump or rock.

 

I plan to order the EZ-Flex option for sure, but am still thinking that I will need a spring over axle lift. Maybe somebody could convince me that it would not be needed. I do wish it were a factory option.

 

I could post lots of pics showing terrain in OR, ID, MT and WY that are similar to the ones in this thread but unfortunately there are no travel trailers in them. ;) BTW one of my most favorite places anywhere is the northeast corner of Nevada; it is extremely remote, unpopulated and quite stunning in places. I plan to go back with an Ollie.....

 

OK, I will post one, just imagine that there is an Ollie in it: It's a link to really big file, a panorama of the high country in National Forest lands near Jarbidge:

 

http://www.spokanister.net/images_web/Overland_Expo_2012/UT%20AZ%20Trip-2012_05_20-1079-PAN-1300.jpg

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[SeaDawg]

Honestly, you'll likely get as many definitions as you get resposes.

We just like wild camping. Free is good, though not necessary. Lack of full hookups generally keeps the crowd down. Harder to get to? Paul loves the drive, and the night sky is amazing

[tstorm5]

Boondocking - Taking my camper into the wilderness where there are no hookups and camping in my nice big camper using minimal electricity based on what I can recharge from solar. Real Boondocking does not include generator noise and there are no signs of a picnic table or KOA anywhere in sight. The fewer people the better but if they are extremely quiet, I can deal with a few. Rare is the quiet camper to meet my needs.

 

Base Camping - Loading my Car/Truck/Whatever up with tent and supplies to go camping. This is also what I call remote camping and there are no facilities available other than a stream nearby or more wilderness.  This is really all I have ever done.

 

Off the grid - Well this has many interpretations now days as it is truly difficult to get more than a 1oo miles from the next Walmart. Off the grid to me is out in the wilderness away from all other humans, down some remote logging road where its just me and the peace and quiet of nature.

 

#4 is a combo pack of the three above.

 

 

 

These are just my opinions and of course the only way I have ever camped. Here's to hoping my future has much of this type of camping but in an Oliver of course.

[Overland]

I hate the term 'boondocking'.  I don't know why, I guess it sounds a bit hick or something, plus it really has no meaning to me.  It's strictly an RV term, and I think to most RVers, it just means not having hookups.

 

With that in mind, I can see that you'd run into expectation problems when organizing a 'boondocking' trip.

 

I don't really know if I understand the distinctions you're making in the other 3 categories, but I'll see if I can give it a shot -

 

Base Camping - this is probably what my wife and I plan to do 80% of the time.  Setting up the Ollie on BLM or National Forrest land near a National Park and then making day trips to where we want to go, either in the park or 4x4 trails, etc.  Having nearby access to facilities if we need to go get more propane, water, food, etc.  Staying 3 or 4 days and then moving on to our next 'base camp'.

 

Off Grid - I guess you mean long-term self-sufficient living in your trailer.  Access to fuel, water and food may be further away.

 

Boondocking Adventure - Overlanding.  Going from point A to B to C being mostly, if not entirely self sufficient and often being pretty far away from supplies or assistance.  Camping in a different spot each night and really needing to have some basic recovery, mechanical  and survival skills in case of emergency.  Maybe good radio skills and a ham license and an InReach or Spot.  Hopefully, my wife and I will be doing some of this and ideally we'd be doing it full time if we didn't have jobs.  We have a couple of trips in mind that we'd like to do - El Camino del Diablo, Baja, Mojave, Dalton, TAT, etc.

 

To those classifications, I guess I'd add Glamping to the list, which in my mind is catered camping.  It's like going on a cruise or a packaged tour.  I guess that's what some of your group expected.  I don't see anything at all wrong with Glamping, but obviously it has to be clear what to expect.  Me, I'd expect that if I'm not paying someone a ton of money, there will be no Glamping involved.  Common sense, you know.

 

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

I am very impressed with the responses from Oliver owners and those of us who find this website welcoming to those that have a different approach for the uses of their trailer.  Obviously some serious Base Campers and Off the Grid travelers!

 

I am very familiar Base Camping with a 23 foot Airstream after eight years of the learning process from 2006 to 2014.  There are no books that will provide actual 'experience' on the real reasons why my wife and I went directly from Tent Camping to Trailer Camping.  Anyone... and some of the previous posts are from those willing to learn or already hard core former Tent Campers... are going to Oliver Trailers for several reasons.

 

1- There is a very positive atmosphere at Oliver.  Their Sales and Promotion people give out their office phone numbers, email address and make themselves available.  I cannot do that at Airstream, easily.

 

2- Oliver owners are much like Airstream owners.  Proud of their trailer and the utility of their trailer in many travel situations.  IF my Airstream, which is set LOW on the Dexter Axles, can travel some of the most remote roads on the Rocky Mountains... Oliver's need not add lift kits.  The 16" wheels as standard is a huge PLUS.

 

3- Oliver owners out in the Western USA are a bit bashful.  None have come out to have a Some Other Brand (SOB) sniff out the plus and minus between two very road worthy trailers.  Olivers and Airstreams.  Airstreams can be found everywhere.  Olivers are just getting a following that is working their way to the West.

 

Although after Four Airstream Adventures... my wife and I agreed that we would not do another.  There is a lot of background work required and no matter how you stress this is not for Tea Time campers, and the weak hearted... they come and leave as soon as they see a RV Park in town.

 

There is no 100% perfect trailer for Off the Grid camping.  None.  I have been replacing hardware and adding bolts, where wood screws once were to hold things together.  I have a thousand or more rivets... of which seven have popped and I installed Lathe Screws to secure the inside aluminum... forever, I hope.  With use, you will find the weakest parts of any brand of trailer, upgrade them the best to your ability and go at it, again and again!  After two years of camping trips, you will possess the BEST trailer you will ever own.

 

If one of the two local Front Range Colorado Oliver owners, either one, want to sponsor a 2017 Oliver Wyoming Eclipse Adventure, I would be willing to assist in the planning from my experiences.

 

This would be a July 2017 or August 2017 Adventure as the best time to be in the High Country is during June, July and Augsut.  I am an optimist among the Oliver owners on this Thread.  If YOU have only half of what I consider required experience... when you are finished you WILL be a Off the Grid / Base Camper.

[Try2Relax]

Go to your happy place

 

 

 

Ray,

 

Reading and following you on airforums, when you first started with your Wyoming trip I seriously considered further investigation, being new to the whole thing and not being able to swing your dates I did not. So I spent a month and a half touring and learning from Boston to Zion, mostly without hookups, albeit not too far off the beaten path.

 

I for one, would definitely be interested in what you might plan and await learning more...

[BoondockingAirstream]

I was having difficulty posting the previous post and am deleting the duplicate.

 

Those of you who presently own an Oliver... you are being noticed.  Not only by other individuals but other RV manufacturers.  Be proud that you are among a small but expanding group of trailer campers.  You might prefer being camped at National Park campsites or in the National Forest by yourselves... but make no mistake.  If Oliver backs up its promises to you... you are the few among the... many.

 

The hospitality of the Western USA within the Rocky Mountains is all yours to explore.  Welcome.  Even if I am not able to greet you myself, post your experiences under Boondocking so we can all live through your experiences.

[BoondockingAirstream]

I appreciate your comments.  There appear to be a good number of Off the Grid and Base Campers owning Olivers.

[John E Davies]

Make the dates straddle the Great Solar Eclipse on 08/21/17 (my birthday!) and you will have a winner.

 

 

http://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/best-places-to-view/

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[BoondockingAirstream]

John E. Davies... we were camped Off the Grid thirty miles NORTH of DuBois, Wyoming about August 21, 2016.  Just a year too early.

 

Two of us from our 2016 Wyoming Adventure scouted the high country to the southwest of DuBois for an Off the Grid site, only to discover very few campsites offered a great view of the Eclipse due to the trees and lack of open areas.

 

The ENTIRE State of Wyoming is promoting this event.  You can even pick up Wyoming Eclipse 2017 stickers from any Wyoming Welcome Centers and State Parks.

 

We drove from DuBois to Moran Junction, Wyoming which is on the way to Jackson, Wyoming.  When you come into Jackson Hole country, the Grand Tetons fill up your entire view from north to south when driving west.  At sunrise, it is a view you will never forget.  Many years ago we took our 23 foot Safari to a National Forest site that required some skill to navigate, but it was high above Jackson Hole and would be near the CENTER of the ECLIPSE path!

 

Maybe we could have a contest and have one to five Oliver trailer owners WIN the GPS Coordinates.  There is no doubt of others knowing of this obscure area, as I did camp there myself... but the 'early Oliver gets the prize Base Camp Site'.

 

Any ideas?  One campsite has room for 8 trailers.  Other sites in the trees and two possible access roads of questionable quality today.

[BoondockingAirstream]

Buzzy and his 9-14-2016 post about maps.  Most navigate with GPS.  There are systems where you can actually follow satellite views of the roads and routes as you go.  I do not have this technology, as I tend to look for geological interesting areas to explore.  Getting there may require Base Camping and hiking up to an outcrop in the distance.  If it is too .... easy, everyone has already been to the site.  I can tell at a glance in some areas if people have found this area before myself.

 

The National Forest Service maps are excellent.  I prefer these most of all.

 

The United States Geological Survey sell excellent maps.

 

I use geological maps from the late 19th century into the 1970's.  Obscure places are my favorites.  It is very interesting to come across campsites with trash laying around from the 1870's!  After awhile you will be able to recognize how old a campsite is by the construction of a 'tin can and solder' as well as the Henry, Sharps and other old rifle cartridges.

 

Some vehicle GPS systems are better and worse than others.  My 2016 F350 Ford is poor compared to my former 2012 Tundra that showed roads in the middle of... nowhere!  ... and they existed.

 

I just had a telephone call from a guy coming by the house.  I sent him detailed directions on how to find our home.  He used his GPS in his vehicle.  He is about ten miles from me and ... lost.  I asked that he use my directions that detailed how to find our home out in the County.  This is a great example of someone using 'modern technology' and not following instructions.

 

 

[Overland]

The USFS MVU maps are indispensable since they show where you can and cannot camp.  Buzzy, you can get them at the ranger stations, or order them ahead of time here - http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/ohv/ohv_maps.shtml

 

They also have a nice online version now that should be a great help when planning - http://www.fs.fed.us/ivm/

 

It's always advisable to check in with a Ranger when you arrive to get the current road conditions.  Also good to know the locations of the BLM offices so you can check in on road conditions, camping restrictions, etc.  Not a bad idea to just let them know you're out there anyway.

 

Like Ray said, GPS can sometimes lead you astray, but then so can any old map.  A combination of a dedicated GPS like a Garmin, that you can use offline, as well as an online solution like Apple or Google maps, seems to work well.  There are also apps that are designed specifically for overland travel, like Delorme Earthmate, Motion X, Gaia or the new HEMA Explorer.  These can be preferable to a dedicated GPS since the maps can be displayed on an iPad at a much larger scale.  HEMA North America is a bit rough around the edges still, but they promise to make it as robust as their Australian version and if they do, should be pretty nice.

[John E Davies]

Buzzy, for Western states the Benchmark atlases are hard to beat as a primary reference, supplemented by highly detailed NFS maps. The problem with the latter is that they are pricey and in some states like Idaho you may need a dozen or more. Plus they show no elevation data, which makes navigation a lot harder than it should be.

 

 

https://www.benchmarkmaps.com/products-page/atlases/wyomingroad-recreation-atlas

 

The Benchmark ones are way more useful away from urban areas that the similar Delorme ones - once you try the black BM atlases  you will toss your red Delorme ones!

 

While Google Earth and other resources are great for planning, I do long road trips with a Benchmark Atlas nearby, my Garmin RV760 LMT on the dash, for autorouting and Points of Interest, and my iPad Mini on a RAM mount, running MotionX GPS, usually zoomed out to about 2 miles to the inch for complete situational awareness. At this scale I see lots of features that the Garmin is completely blind to.

 

http://gps.motionx.com/ipad/overview/

 

I usually view the excellent downloadable (included) MotionX Terrain maps, but I also have downloaded most USGS 24K topos (free) for my areas of operation. The beauty of this program is that it lets you view many, many different types of maps, including satellite and conventional road, but those require a data plan and cellular coverage, which in many places out here are simply unavailable. You MUST have cached maps! This is critical!

 

It _is_ possible to load topo maps onto many NUVI models that have a flash card, and it is possible to display both topo and road features simultaneously with effective Auto Routing and voice prompts, but the display gets a little weird and I do not often do this. Plus Garmin TOPO is a little lame. Having two displays showing two different map types is a revelation when you are wandering in the boonies.

 

The very best resource I have found for this stuff is a sub-forum at Expedition Portal: .... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/46-Mapping-Navigation-GIS-(Software)

 

Here is a good start for you: .... http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/156098-Overland-Navigation-Overview-and-Tutorial?s=d2dbbcd414c6594cc6df60746eae59cb

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

EDIT: There are a number of excellent local forums dedicated to overlanding, plus there are regional forums at Expedition Portal. While their focus is far more "off roady" than the stuff we have been talking about here, those folks _really_ know the back country areas around them and are friendly to visitors to their website asking for advice about places to visit. Just be sure to emphasize the fact that you will be hauling a trailer and do not have a locked and lifted Rubicon to pull it with. Avoid the 4x4/ Jeep forums as those are way too dirt oriented to be useful to an Oliver owner. In the past I have posted questions online about visiting southern Utah and the Colorado Plateau and these folks have been extremely helpful. JD

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

I will follow John into the wilds, any time.

 

The older editions of DeLorme Atlases had more going for them than the new editions.  They also changed the pagination so one having an older atlas can not give a location using a page number and coordinates of letter and number.

 

If anyone buys a DeLorme Atlas from their site there is a coupon on it for 50% discount.  I think competition is getting tough and like John... he has enough to navigate anyplace with accurate information at his finger tips.

 

Great post John. Give everyone you license plate number so we can follow you.

[Raspy]

Those of you who presently own an Oliver… you are being noticed. Not only by other individuals but other RV manufacturers. Be proud that you are among a small but expanding group of trailer campers. You might prefer being camped at National Park campsites or in the National Forest by yourselves… but make no mistake. If Oliver backs up its promises to you… you are the few among the… many. The hospitality of the Western USA within the Rocky Mountains is all yours to explore. Welcome. Even if I am not able to greet you myself, post your experiences under Boondocking so we can all live through your experiences.

 

Wow!  What a post!  Ollies are something special and I'm happy to have one.

[Laps]

John:  excellent and informative post regarding mapping etc.   I just ordered several of the Benchmark atlases for an upcoming trip to the Southwest, just in the truck, no Oliver yet.

 

I have this app on my phone and ipad and its quite good:  https://www.gaiagps.com/

[topgun2]

Sorry guys and gals but I'm not able to supply more info at the moment, but, take a look at an app called back country navigator.  For a one time fee of $10 you get several different types of topo maps for basically the world that can be downloaded to your computer, tablet, phone and then using the GPS hardware in that device, etc., etc.

 

TG

[John E Davies]

Sorry guys and gals but I’m not able to supply more info at the moment, but, take a look at an app called back country navigator. For a one time fee of $10 you get several different types of topo maps for basically the world that can be downloaded to your computer, tablet, phone and then using the GPS hardware in that device, etc., etc. TG

This is a remarkable app for Android devices. I wish there were more like this for Mac users, but MotionX GPS is the only capable choice (and a great one) for those units.

 

I want to emphasize my main point from a previous comment. Like any safety device for exploring  remote areas, duplication of equipment is essential. Using a regular auto-routing gps for getting around, backed up by a second iPad or Android tablet or Windows laptop running a more specialized map program, gives redundancy, additional safety and way, WAY more capabilities than using just one device. A large display especially helps, by showing a wider area of terrain in detail. It is really hard to drive and navigate using a phone or tiny gps display.

 

The problem with navigating with only a Garmin or other brand of "regular" gps is that as soon as you zoom out past say 0.5 miles scale, all the minor roads you are interested in simply vanish! So you must scroll around looking for that elusive crossroad or lake or saddle or campground (which may be completely missing from its primitive database) while zoomed into the "high detail" scale. Scrolling is stupid and very frustrating when you can see all that stuff in a glance on the other device which is set on a 1 or 2 mile scale.

 

And just like bear spray, you need a second one along in case the first one is no longer working.

 

The paper atlas or NFS map is for when both devices get confused or you need even more detail. Normally you don't need to drive along with your finger on the paper..... One thing about NFS roads - the road numbers often do NOT match what is on your gps or regular maps, so here is where an official Forest Service map comes in handy. But it is not 100% essential.

 

We could start another thread about overlanding preparation, safety and equipment if folks are interested. It is probably not a good idea to get too sidetracked from the main idea of this one - Olivers and boon docking. But you will get much more action by just participating in the Expedition Portal forum.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[BoondockingAirstream]

Top Gun and John Davies are providing map data that would be for those hard core Off Grid trailer travelers.

 

John did bring up the fact that many of the road numbers may not agree with one, two or all of your maps.  At times your vehicle GPS has a name for a road that you have just a number.  There is a system to National Forest and Bureau of Land Management roads.  As the road becomes less traveled and becomes a two rut hunter's camp trail... the numbers indicate that.  At times if the County maintains part of the road, there is also a County Road number!  At some point it stops and another name or number... appears!

 

Of Airstream owners... maybe 15% depart the asphalt and RV established for pay sites.  Of that 15% those that would Base Camp or Off the Grid camp would eliminate the marginal 5%.  I put together four group 'Adventures' in the last two years.  The latest was called the 2016 Wyoming Boondocking Adventure that was offered May 15, 2015.

 

Twentyone signed up and the Adventure was 'closed' to any new members for a ten day Off the Grid and Base Camp trip in NW Wyoming.  This trip was to begin August 14 and end August 24th, 2016.  By July 14, 2016, ten had dropped out for various reasons.  On August 14, 2016 eleven met at Laramie, Wyoming.  By August 22nd, five finished the entire route.  This is an example of what some trailer owners consider RV Park amenities and Boondocking are the one, and same.

 

The first day Off the Grid the wind was at a steady 25mph.  The next morning a vote was made to leave this site and into the mountains.  One member dropped out immediately, that morning.

 

Several days later in the mountains, it rained.  It was cold.  A vote was made to leave this area and chance the mud and slop out to asphalt.

 

On our way to Jackson, Wyoming the sun was out, the sky was dark blue.  We Base Camped along a river and those who fished, caught fish near Alpine, Wyoming. When leaving for the next Off the Grid site along the Oregon Trail between Farson and Atlantic City, Wyoming (nearest towns) there were only five of us remaining from an original 21, to 11, to 5 members of the original group.

 

THIS is why those who have not trailer camped Off the Grid or Base Camped... need to understand that there are no showers, flushing toilets, facilities of any kind other than what you bring, yourself.  There is only the sky above, the ground below and whatever is in between.

 

The 85% to 90% of trailer campers prefer to stay at established National Parks and established Pay to Camp established sites in these areas.  I prefer to camp in between National Parks and Boondock.  Crowds are not why we travel to camp near.  It is a lifestyle choice.  Usually for those Middle Age and younger.  The majority of Airstream owners are... well, lets say older and professionals wanting catered campsites.

 

The Oliver 1 & 2 are perfect for camping anywhere, anyplace.  It is not the trailer that is incapable of traveling roads of various widths and surfaces.  It would be new owner's limitations.  As said earlier... two or three together can share knowledge and feel secure pushing their experience and limitations.  Others, as myself and a couple already posting on this Thread... are more comfortable by themselves for obvious reasons.  We are NOT TOUR GUIDES or hired help once camped.  You must make your own plans in some of these situations.  Some hike.  Some bike.  Some like to wander around and collect rocks. Some just want to photograph the wilderness area just across the shallow meandering streams.

 

Many Oliver owners are located in the SE USA.  Obvious that they would be.  I have seen none in the Western USA.  See a lot of Casitas and Airstreams and the huge fifth wheels and other brands parked by the hundreds at RV camps.