Frozen water line to Bathroom?

[DonnaDuane]

<p style="text-align: left;">I’m happy to report that since getting new circuit boards for furnace and MaxxAir fan, my winter Camping at ski areas has been going quite well, until now.</p>

After setting up last night, I discovered I have hot and cold water to kitchen, but only hot to bathroom. No cold water to toilet or sink. Could that line be frozen? I’ve had the furnace on since arriving so don’t understand why everything else works. Any ideas? Outside temp is 18 F.

[Overland]

Likely. I had the same happen just a few weeks ago. Fortunately I still had a tiny drip in the cold line so I just left the tap on until it cleared. Took maybe 20 minutes.

 

Maybe try closing the two main cabin vents and run the furnace. That would get the maximum warm air through the duct in that corner and perhaps the area will warm up enough to thaw the line.  Fortunately I don’t think there are any connections in the pex there, so you should be safe from damage.

 

I wish there were an access hatch in the bottom of the closet - if so, it would be a cinch to thaw a frozen line in that corner with a hairdryer.

 

 

 

 

[DonnaDuane]

That’s a fabulous idea!  I’ll try it when I return to the Ollie this afternoon. The furnace and Truma are on while I ski so hopefully all will be ok.

[DonnaDuane]

Been trying your idea for 3 hours to no avail. Any other ideas?

[Overland]

That's the best I've got.  You can open up the access hatches to try to get some airflow between the hulls and then crank up the heat.  If you have a fan you could try to fit it in the forward dinette hatch and direct some airflow that direction.

 

Here's a photo of where the water lines run.  You can see that they're right up against the heat duct, so I still think that with time it will thaw.  Door would be in the upper right, closet middle top and shower to the left.

 

[attachment file=_JDA3205.jpg]

 

Curious that Oliver runs the water lines on the outside instead of sandwiching them between the air duct and water tank.

 

Always the possibility that it's something other than a frozen line, but it seems unlikely.

[Try2Relax]

If you remove the access over the water pump you can pull the heater ducting off the rear blower vent and just lay it out in the hull pointing towards the front. The duct is only held on with a clamp requiring a straight slot screwdriver. Put the cover back in place to contain as much heat as possible.

 

Going to both locations means that the freeze would be at/behind the wheel well.

 

I'm not sure how they've changed the routing but there used to be a tee below the sink behind the cabinets along the outer wall.

[BackofBeyond]

In the addition to the above ideas, if you still have the problem, I would remove the access covers on both sides, and place some sort of small electric heater directed forward. At some point enough heat will solve the problem.

[topgun2]

Another thing you could try - assuming that the problem is really a frozen line and you are at a place where there are full facilities - slowly run the hot water.  Since the cold and hot are very close to each other for a fair amount of the run, the warmth from the hot water line could help thaw the cold.  However, it is curious that the problem is only with the cold water line.

 

Bill

[DavePhelps]

On the Elite1, the furnace is under the front dinette seat. There are two supply ducts, one to the bathroom and a very short run out the base of the front dinette seat.

 

I really wish Oliver had a third duct that warmed the area between the hulls better. I asked about this when we were in the market and was told the residual heat from the furnace itself would keep the water lines from freezing. This has not proven to be the case, and needs to be looked at.

 

I would do what Randy suggested and remove the two ducts from the furnace outlet. Or at least the one that goes to the bathroom. That will send a blast of warm air between the hulls and hopefully thaw your frozen line. A more difficult solution might be to remove the access panel under the bathroom sink and put a small fan in there. Obviously not a solution you want to do regularly if you're a cold weather camper.

 

Dave

 

 

[Overland]

The bath duct in the Elite II so useless at heating the bathroom that I wonder if it wouldn't be better just to cut it short and let it permanently heat that hull area by the door/closet.

 

Another possible improvement might be to move the return air intake to one of the dinette seats.  That way cabin air would have to be drawn through the hull to recirculate.

[DavePhelps]

Another possible improvement might be to move the return air intake to one of the dinette seats. That way cabin air would have to be drawn through the hull to recirculate.

 

That is a good idea Oliver should check out! Put the return as far from the furnace as is practical. On the Elite I, the return is on the front dinette seat, basically right next to the furnace. Where I have had some freezing trouble is on the street side rear of the trailer, where the water inlets are. That might be a good place to locate the return (on the Elite I).

 

The Elite I bathroom is the warmest room in the house as the furnace is just on the other side of the wall and the duct run is very short. For the Elite II, using hard ducting would improve flow (reduced friction loss) and there are insulation products available for this type of ducting.

 

Anyway, I hope DonnaDuane are working out their problem. It's been mighty cold in the Cascades.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[Try2Relax]

The bath duct in the Elite II so useless at heating the bathroom that I wonder if it wouldn’t be better just to cut it short and let it permanently heat that hull area by the door/closet.

 

Another possible improvement might be to move the return air intake to one of the dinette seats. That way cabin air would have to be drawn through the hull to recirculate.

 

 

That was my thought too. But I got pooh-poohed...

 

http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/heating-system/#post-40919

[Overland]

I missed that thread.  Did you ever try John's idea about testing it with the dinette hatch open?  If not, I may try that myself when I get a chance.  I suspect, however, that the airflow would go counterclockwise, around the back of the tanks, since the space under the front entrance is mostly blocked (see the photo above).  That might help keep the plumbing in the rear street corner warm but wouldn't do anything for the closet corner.

 

I think the ideal spot for the return air would be beneath the closet door, with a duct in the closet channeling it down between the hulls.  Then the air would come right down over the water lines and then travel the long way around the trailer, keeping the entire space warm.

 

Alternatively, cutting the duct in that location would accomplish a similar airflow, and with warmer air.  It would also give the benefit of positive pressure between the hulls, which would discourage the furnace from drawing outside air in through the weeps, as it surely does now.  You lose the bath vent, of course, and it would be more difficult to regulate the air to the cabin.  Details.

 

It also seems like a ton of heat is lost into the back curbside corner from the furnace and plenum, both of which are completely uninsulated.  That keeps the water pump area toasty of course, but it seems like some of that heat would be more useful elsewhere.  It might be worth adding some insulation around the furnace as an experiment.

 

In short, I think that there are some definite avenues for finding more efficiency in the system - it's just up to one of us owners to find the time and energy to put towards it.

[Mainiac]

: I just got, and will install when it warms up, an adjustable vent. The vent will be installed above and to the left of the bathroom door. If you have the bathroom exhaust fan running, the window closed, and open the door...you can hear the fan relax. Close the door again and you can hear the fan struggling again. The same air tightness of the door must restrict the airflow out of the bathroom heat duct. By putting the adjustable 4"SS vent in should allow the heat in the bathroom of the EII to function a lot better. By being high up it will have no effect on shower usage. Should work well as an exhaust fan for the whole unit as well..

 

 

[ScubaRx]

You can have the same effect by simply turning the ceiling fan on while the furnace is running. It will literally suck the warm air into the bathroom.

[Mainiac]

By turning the fan on, it would exhaust any heat gained? By putting the vent in it will allow that heated air to circulate from the bathroom outlet back to the return air vent. By not making the bath space pressurized, it should heat better. Making the whole heating system more balanced and should provide better heat distribution to the basement area as a bonus...

[Rumline]

I like the vent idea for several reasons.  My only hesitation is it allowing warm moist air out of the shower and into the rest of the trailer.  I'd want to install it low if I could to allow cool air to enter the bathroom when showering and then to leave when the furnace is on, but then that opens up water concerns.  Maybe modifying the bottom seal of the door so that air can transfer but water will still get caught/diverted by the lip.

[Try2Relax]

I like the vent idea for several reasons. My only hesitation is it allowing warm moist air out of the shower and into the rest of the trailer. I’d want to install it low if I could to allow cool air to enter the bathroom when showering and then to leave when the furnace is on, but then that opens up water concerns. Maybe modifying the bottom seal of the door so that air can transfer but water will still get caught/diverted by the lip.

 

 

If placed low on the wall in the corner near the toilet, it would become a part of the cold air return, when the heat is on, and would draw the air from between the hulls when the exhaust fan is. Once the door is open to leave little to any moist air would enter the vent.

 

Use one of these covers and that would eliminate most chance of any water going in.

 

I believe the wall is a single layer between the head and under dinette seat.

 

https://www.amazon.com/SeaLux-Stainless-Marine-Engine-Louvered/dp/B01LW71I0Z

 

 

[Overland]

I think the issue you may run into is since the bath fan is pulling air from the trailer, outside air needs to come in. And if the new vent leads to the hull space, then that air will probably come in through the weeps.  In freezing weather, it would be working against you.

 

 

[DonnaDuane]

After camping this weekend at another cold ski area with no frozen water lines, I think what caused it to freeze was lots of slush accumulated and froze solid around the front and door.  In fact the step wouldn’t open because it had so much ice on it. No slush to drive through this weekend. Now we have freezing temps in Portland (very rare) for more than a week, so I winterized it for the first time. Much easier than I imagined. So glad I got a Vaeir air compressor. Shocked by how much water was still in lines when we blew them out. Refilling each line with antifreeze was a breeze with Donna’s assistance. Now we can sleep easy while it sits out in the cold.