Tow Vehicle Organization

[WhatDa]

For those of you towing with trucks, what are you finding that works for tow vehicle organization/weather sealing?  With my past tow vehicles, jumping under the cap and rummaging for stuff wasn't fun when what you needed was up by the cab.  Also getting the tailgate to actually seal out dust in the desert was never easy and intuitive.  I am contemplating a service body with something liked the decked system (https://decked.com/products/service-body-gmc-2500-3500?variant=14301069606978) or even a sealed insert (https://brandfxbody.com/products/inserts/low-profile-models-2/)

 

The issues with all the options in the weight - but the shorter aluminum/fiber glass bodies are only about 500 lbs and losing the stock bed saves about 250 lbs.  Also finding the shorter bodies is harder as most of them are 8-9'.  I want my TV to still be able to make it into a city/major airport without full land yacht status.  Looking at the double/extended cabs with the 6.5" beds.  Service bodies also make the truck look full on commercial - good or bad and probably kill the aerodynamics / mileage.

[John E Davies]

If dust intrusion is a worry, I am not sure any pickup based truck will be satisfactory, the beds are not designed with that in mind. I installed tailgate seals on my 06 Ram and tried to seal up the bed and canopy holes, but it always leaked because it is a low pressure area and just sucks dirt in.... One reason I like towing with a HD SUV is how clean everything inside stays.

 

If you require a really large payload, about all you could do is buy a used Excursion or a new one.... https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2019/04/30/ford-excursion-cult-refuses-to-let-excessive-suv-go-extinct/3573249002/

 

Is a 2019 Expedition too small? Access is easy with the extra side doors and you could remove the back seats entirely for more volume and payload. It is a real looker, has a good truck drivetrain, and with the 3.5 Eco Boost it is plenty strong for an Elite II. The FX4 offroad package is very impressive - add an aftermarket lift kit if you need extra clearance.

 

I love my Land Cruiser, but sometimes wish they made a longer version.... it’s usually crammed full with dogs and gear on long trips.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Landrover]

I’ve recently posted about my vehicle with the Decked system. I am very happy with it. A lot of storage, plenty of deck room. It isn’t dust free. Nor is the inside of your cab, or the inside of your home. A little maintenance is all it takes. It’s all personal preference. What ever works best for you.

[John E Davies]

https://www.in-depthoutdoors.com/community/forums/topic/truck-beds-toppers-and-dust/

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[Overland]

If you don't need your truck bed for other things, I think the best solution is a topper.  Yes, things will get a little dusty but in general your stuff will stay protected from theft and the elements.  To make things easier to retrieve, many people install a bed slide or a set of drawers (or both).

 

If you do need to use your bed for other things, then a topper is a no go.  A bed cover is the usual solution, with or without a bed slide.  I wanted a rack on mine, and went with a Leitner Designs rack because of its versatility.  With that, I can slide the cross bars forward for hauling tall stuff, mulch, etc. in the bed; use them in the normal position for kayaks, ladders, etc., and add a full rack when camping for solar panels.  I can also add an intermediate rack to get another tier of storage.  Eventually I want to add a slide and drawers to the bed itself.

 

For dust and weather, I bought a pallet full of navy surplus Hardigg cases a few years ago and those things are air tight and practically indestructible.  I have two of the storage boxes that are made for the Leitner rack, but they're not particularly waterproof.

 

Here's my usual camping setup - solar up top, Leitner and Hardigg boxes in the middle along with LP and CO2 for tires, then in the bed go a few more Hardigg cases, grill, table, off road jack, winch, jerry cans, etc.  Everything is out in the weather, but the advantage is that it's all easy to retrieve.

 

[WhatDa]

I'm not expecting a hermetically sealed clean room, but the leak from the tailgate was the problem with my F150.  One drive through the desert and my bicycle drivetrain had to be disassembled to get all the grit out.  That's why I am kind of thinking of the "work pod" which is fully sealed with its own floor.  Combined with slide out drawers and a slide out shelf it should do most of what I want.  Easy access from the side of the truck into the upper storage.

 

A service body with a cab height cap would probably be ideal, the downside is I want features that most work trucks don't get - 360 cameras etc...  So that'd probably mean buying a truck and pulling the bed.  Not too hard as I am just down the road from Reading, PA -- home of  Reading Bodies - but costs $$$.  Aesthetically my least favorite, but from an organization/access standpoint probably my favorite.  Pulling the generator out of its own, sealed compartment sounds good.  Also no fuel fumes on anything else.

 

Expedition looks like an interesting beast - 610 lbs tongue weight for the standard and 630 for the max before WDH needed -- better than the F150 and potentially within reason for an LE2. Pro trailer assist is here, which SD won't have.  The price eclipses a well optioned super duty with power stroke.  It would definitely be the better in-town vehicle once the towing is done and would need some sort of cargo divider.

[ShaunHicks]

The 2500HD model raises performance to a level befitting serious heavy-duty towing and hauling on the worksite, with a max towing capacity of <b>15,400 pounds</b> and a max GVWR of <b>10,000 pounds</b>.

 

______________________

 

brookfield towing service

[WhatDa]

I drove just about everything under the sun.  I also got to check out service bodies and I don't think they'll work out as well as I hoped.  We are almost settled on a Ram 2500/3500 at this point.

 

So now my decision is Ram Boxes and Tonneau or a regular bed with a cap.  I've only done caps before but the organization of the ram boxes combined with the flexibility to haul tall stuff is really appealing.  It's also the fact that we will probably take delivery and drive to Hohenwald so it'd be delivered how I need vs having to add another stop for the cap install.

 

Any thoughts from the crowd?

[Mike and Carol]

My next truck will probably be a Ram 2500 with Ram Boxes. I will wait until the split tailgate is available, probably the 2020 model. That should make it easier to reach into the bed without stretching over the tailgate. Mike

[WhatDa]

Do you currently run a cap?  Just wondering what draws others to ram boxes.   Obviously I lose the ability to store some things in weather protected space, but it seems like a win in organization without having to go with a service body.

 

The 2500/3500 with the Hemi are pretty impressive - I got the same mileage with them as I got in the 5.0/EB F150 on the same lap around the dealers.  Cummins was nice, but the 6 speed shifts pretty hard and not sure it will pass the wife test and $9k buys a lot of gas.

[ScubaRx]

$9K will buy a lot of gasoline but spending it on gas will not get you an ounce of extra torque.

 

We actually get 3 mpg better fuel mileage with our diesel than the previous 6.2L gas burner with seemingly unlimited uphill power and unbelievable downhill engine braking.

[Jitters]

Good choice.  I just picked up a Ram 3500 SRW mega cab Limited with the ram boxes and cargo management.   Love it.  I may add a bed slide.

 

Greg

 

 

[Mike and Carol]

Do you currently run a cap?  Just wondering what draws others to ram boxes.

I don’t have a cap, I have a Bakflip tonneau cover. We don’t carry more than will fit under the tonneau even when we’re out for a month or more. I have a couple of tool boxes in the bed that can be hard to access under other camping stuff. Everything in those boxes will go in the Ramboxes for easy access. Will still use a tonneau cover. Mike

[mountainoliver]

So with the “Ram Boxes” it looks like you cannot use a bed cap or a tonneau cover, correct?

[Mike and Carol]

[postquote quote=181416][/postquote]

Tonneau covers are available. I know Bakflip makes one, saw it recently on a Rambox equipped 1500.  I don’t think a bed cap is possible.

[WhatDa]

$9K will buy a lot of gasoline but spending it on gas will not get you an ounce of extra torque.

 

We actually get 3 mpg better fuel mileage with our diesel than the previous 6.2L gas burner with seemingly unlimited uphill power and unbelievable downhill engine braking.

 

 

You get more torque from gears.

 

In the RAM 2500, I would give the diesel a hard pass for sure - it kills payload with ~800lbs of extra weight.  2700LBS vs 1900lbs on the trucks I saw on the lot.  The gas 6.4L Hemi is now standard and is it a truck engine with 410HP and 429 lb-ft of torque vs 379hp/870tq for the regular cummins or 400/1000 on the HO cummins.  It has a new ZF brand 8-speed transmission that shifts very smoothly compared to the 6 speed on the diesel which shifts unsurprisingly like a truck.  With the newer transmission the spread from diesel to the V8 on unladen mileage has shrunk, but I imagine the diesel still gets a ~30% advantage on towing.  Dealers weren't willing to let me hook up a u-haul full of cement to test though.

 

For those unaware: horsepower is truly the key to climbing a hill or even moving down the road, low end torque (which also means low end horsepower) means you engine isn't spinning up as much for a more pleasant experience.  Torque can be multiplied to the wheels - thats' what our transmissions and rear diffs do.  Towing in a Diesel loping along at 1500 RPM will be more pleasant than a gasser redlining the whole way - but I don't think that is what the 6.4 Hemi is going to be doing either.  The ZF is built to the 1000 ft-lb spec of the higher output cummins, so it I'd not be surprised to see it on the diesels in the near future.

 

But, the current 2500/3500 hemi is lighter (more payload), cheaper, and comes with a better transmission.  The diesel has more torque, and the turbos mean it will perform better as altitude increases.  Every 1000 feet of density altitude (altitude above sea level corrected for nonstandard temperature -- higher temperatures mean a higher density altitude), mean a 3-5% decrease in power for a naturally aspirated engine like the hemi.  So crossing Snoqualmie pass it puts out ~360 horsepower, ~330hp in Denver, ~295 in Aspen.  Maybe better or maybe worse.  Meanwhile the Diesel will have much less falloff, especially on a cold day where the intercoolers can work especially well.  The diesel also benefits from the exhaust brake - this is added to diesels as they have almost no engine breaking without them.  This could really save the rotors on descents and when using adaptive cruise in surging traffic.

 

For me - especially being primarily on the East Coast - the Hemi makes more sense for something the size of the Oliver.  If I had something with more surface area or weight the diesel would make more sense.  For me it's mostly the transmission that I am choosing.

 

 

For tonneaus/caps for ramboxes- there are no caps, but tonneau covers are possible as are racks to supplement. https://diamondbackcovers.com diamondback covers also give you a 1600lbs load bearing surface.

 

 

 

Steven

[WhatDa]

It looks like John Davies may get the award for pinning the tail on the donkey - in hostile negotiations for an Expedition MAX now.  We'll see if it pans out.  If it works I'll need to relook where we put fuel/generator.  ~1700lbs payload equals what I saw in the best 1/2 ton trucks, but this already comes with an HD, weight bearing "cap" which puts it about 250lbs ahead in payload.  Independent rear suspension and 630lbs weight limit before needing WDH is also a big plus.

[John E Davies]

I always carry my Yamaha generator inside the Land Cruiser, no problems, no fumes. The filler cap seals tight. I do run the carb dry at shutdown... I keep it all the way at the back so I can drop the tailgate and run it in situ with the exhaust pointed outwards, of course. Extra fuel rides on the back of the Ollie in two real original Wedco Nato jerry cans, not the new style ones.

 

I will carry one upright jerry can inside the LC if necessary, for a short trip. I never notice the slightest odor of gas. You can drop these off a truck onto concrete and they won't vent or spill. They can heat up in the sun until they are hot to the touch and swell, and they won't vent. They can be carried flat on a roof rack, no worries. For transfer I use a high volume syphon pump with a squeeze bulb to start the flow.

 

Gas storage is a pain but it is solvable. It is best to keep it outside but not absolutely mandatory with the right cans. Good luck on the Expedition Max.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

 

 

[WhatDa]

If any of the deals I am working work out and I don't get wooed away by the Duramax 1500, my perfect situation would be a 40-50 gallon replacement tank from TransferFlow (they sell one for the gas F150 and may be able to make/adapt for the Expedition).  Then figure out a way to just draw from that either directly or siphoning.  That and probably replacing the 22" tires/wheels with 18" that can handle some softer/looser surfaces.

[John E Davies]

Can’t you just buy the FX4 package?

 

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[WhatDa]

FX4 is XLT only for 2018-19.  We want the 360 camera (Limited or Platinum only).   If I wait for a 2020, then I can get FX4 on Limited, but I don't think I want to wait that long - JOB1 for the 2020 isn't until 3 weeks after we pickup #529.  It's easier/cheaper to get a used 18 or 19  Limited on closeout and add the skid plates and wheels.  Suspension upgrade will follow if I feel I need it.  The rest of the package is included in HD Tow (radiator/transfercase/LSD).

 

I did find a special edition limited.  It has everything the limited 302A has, but with 20" wheels instead of 22" - so a little less rediculous.

[John E Davies]

 

I did find a special edition limited. It has everything the limited 302A has, but with 20″ wheels instead of 22″ – so a little less rediculous.

 

Keep in mind that those ridiculous 22s would probably sell faster than the smaller wheels on Craigslist as take-offs, to clueless owners wanting the latest look.  If you do want to swap them, do it ASAP so that they are like new..... I saw a CL ad for Tundra takeoff wheels and tires, a set of five, with 7 miles on them, he “drove straight from the dealer to the tire store”. LOL. He was asking $900, without TPMS senders, which for the buyer is a pure steal.

 

My 200 has 18s, the Lexus version has 22s. I actually would prefer 17” but most of the aftermarket wheels won’t clear the front brake calipers.....

 

I didn’t know about FX4 availability, thanks for the info.

 

John Davies

 

Spokane WA

[WhatDa]

Little further down this rabbit hole.  It's easy to lift and put some bigger tires on the upper trims of the Expedition:

 

 

It allows greater tire sizes.

 

The MAX allows 630 lbs of tongue weight without a WDH, so I might try that.

 

We've also looked at the Navigator a bit -- only 600lbs allowed on the tongue and lower towing (in the 8000's) but plenty for our needs.  Bonus is the headlights become auto leveling in the Navigator and more power and torques.

 

They both drive much smoother than an F150 and handle rutted/potholed roads without the drama the F150 has.  The MAX/Navigator L can even fit plywood in the back (all seats down).

 

Also checked out the Explorer based Aviator's specs - it supports 670 tongue weight and 6700 lbs trailers.  It might not be a bad option for someone who doesn't need the space/need to max out their ollie. No Pro Trailer assist for backup but does have lane centering assist.  It only weighs 4600 for the base model though...