GO FOR IT! TALK ME OUT OF A COMPARABLE AIRSTREAM. 😉

[Ray and Susan Huff]

57 minutes ago, Overland said:

Not to sidetrack the topic into all toilet talk, but can those who don't like the wet bath explain to me exactly what it is that bothers people?  It's a genuine question - not trying to be snarky or anything.  It's just not something that even crossed my or my wife's mind when we were looking, so I don't really get why it seems to be a big sticking point for other buyers.  Is it that you feel like you'll have to dry off the toilet to use it, or you don't want to look at it, or does it just make the bath feel institutional?  

I'm wondering if the shower curtain that we installed makes the difference for us.  Functionally, it does keep the toilet dry and hidden.  And it also makes the space just nicer feeling, which I do understand and appreciate.  I'm curious if Oliver made a shower curtain standard, and photographed it that way, if people would still feel as strongly about it.

Our daugher-in-law says it well . . . . "you don't use the toilet and the shower at the same time!" . . . . . . although the toilet is handy for a taller person (my husband) as you can sit and not have to stand hunched over while showering 😊

[Ray and Susan Huff]

57 minutes ago, BackofBeyond said:

As always - Oliver owners have great advice - from real world experience.

I have always thought the Airstream interiors were attractive and well laid out - livable. But in the end - depending on your intended usage - merely lipstick on a pig. 

My advice - and expensive - go purchase the Airstream of your choice - live with it - use as you will. You may end up loving it and happy with the purchase.

But - Don't spend a year- pulling it - the Airstream - all over the country- trying to boondock in places that are really cool and off the beaten path, only to  eventually cozy up to an Oliver in the next site over. And certainly don't ask the occupant about the solar and battery system, the ease of use, towing, and overall satisfaction. Stay in the Airstream - slipstream. you don't need the second guessing.

But honestly, I don't care what you purchase. I have enough aggravation with those who keep chasing me down along the road, waiting for me to pull over - so they can look at the Oliver. Airstream owners are the worst - I just feel so bad when they leave muttering to themselves.

Happy trails.

 

I love the "lipstick on a pig"!

 

[Voyager]

1 hour ago, Overland said:

Not to sidetrack the topic into all toilet talk, but can those who don't like the wet bath explain to me exactly what it is that bothers people?  It's a genuine question - not trying to be snarky or anything.  It's just not something that even crossed my or my wife's mind when we were looking, so I don't really get why it seems to be a big sticking point for other buyers.  Is it that you feel like you'll have to dry off the toilet to use it, or you don't want to look at it, or does it just make the bath feel institutional?  

I'm wondering if the shower curtain that we installed makes the difference for us.  Functionally, it does keep the toilet dry and hidden.  And it also makes the space just nicer feeling, which I do understand and appreciate.  I'm curious if Oliver made a shower curtain standard, and photographed it that way, if people would still feel as strongly about it.

Thanks Overland, and yes, I think I'd be a good candidate to answer your question regarding the wet bath concern.

First off, let me say that before I stumbled into the Oliver product line, I didn't even know that wet baths existed in travel trailers! That's how ignorant or uninformed I was. I've owned several offshore boats in the 28-35 foot range over the years, that had 'wet' baths, but I had never previously seen one in a travel trailer.

To be perfectly frank, although I fully understand the spatial constraints inherent to a relatively short 23-foot platform, I was nevertheless 'stunned' to find it in a travel trailer, that when fully loaded with features, is priced at nearly $90,000. THAT, is simply colossal money in my world, and depending on the particular parameters one might use to compare the two, it's arguably MORE expensive than a comparable Airstream. Then, add to that, the fact that I'm 6-foot 2-inches tall and the shower stall in the LE-II is only 6-foot, and you begin to feel cold feet creeping in.

And lastly, I have to add one more personal observation about curtain-less wet baths . . . I'll frequently see where others say that they're "no trouble at all" or how they're actually "less work" than dry baths, because all you have to do is dry everything in the bathroom off when done showering, but this is absurd! If you use soap when showering (like most people on Earth), then you're gonna have dirt, body oils, soap scum and shampoo residue, coating the floor, the toilet and everything else in that enclosed area, and that's not "less" work in my view.

So basically, my overall point is this . . . for $85-$90,000 fully loaded, I would have liked to stand fully 'upright' in my shower, not have to dry anything and everything off each time, and not have to scrub the floors and fixtures every single time the shower is used. But in fairness, that's just me. Your mileage may vary. 😉

Anyway, I hope this added information helps answer your question(s).

Edited January 12, 2021 by Voyager

[Overland]

11 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Anyway, I hope this added information helps answer your question(s).

Well, it answers a different question I had.

It sounds to me like an Oliver would be a bad fit for you.  Like I said in the beginning - it depends on your needs and priorities and it sounds like you need a larger trailer.  I think you'll enjoy the Airstream much more.  Best of luck to you!

Edited January 12, 2021 by Overland

[Voyager]

While it's true that sitting on the toilet when showering eliminates tall folks from banging their head on the ceiling, it's also true that many (if not most) travel trailers ≥23-foot, have dry baths with higher ceilings. This is true of Airstream, and it's true for even most of it's budget competitors.

As for the "lipstick on a pig" remark, if I'm not mistaken, that's a quote from the late Arizona senator and presidential candidate John McCain, when he was first asked about his perception of Sarah Palin, whom he later chose as his running mate. 👊👊

Edited January 12, 2021 by Voyager

[topgun2]

Voyager - 

I feel your pain.  Prior to finding Olivers I looked at Casitas.  At the time I felt that it was bad enough that I would need to adjust to a wet bath, but in the Casita I could not stand straight up to take a shower (I'm "only" 6 foot tall).  Add to this the single shell and "rat fur" and overall lack of "quality", it didn't take me long to know that Casitas were not right for me.

The first thing I did when I got to see a real Oliver was to step into the bath to make sure I could stand straight up - success!  Obviously, with your being 6'2" you have a slight "height problem" in the Oliver bath. 

I'm not the one who had this idea, but, it has been explained to me that the "real estate" inside all campers is fairly "expensive".  That is, there is only a finite amount of it and one has to decide what they want to do with every square inch of it in order to maximize the utility, comfort, etc..  Oliver could make a dry bath - simply get rid of the closet.  But, I, for one, am glad that the closet is there.  Given the amount of time the average person spends in the bathroom each day, let alone the shower, I'm guessing that the closet has much more use.

Bottom line - if a wet bath bothers you then do not purchase an Oliver.  Or be willing to do a fairly extensive alteration of your new Oliver.

Bill

[Voyager]

Thanks Bill!

A couple of great points. Especially the point about the closet. That was my wife's first observation too. She wondered, why didn't they just ditch the closet in favor of a dry bath? But I guess it was for the same reason they didn't accommodate people 6-foot tall and larger? Most folks are under 6-foot, and most people want a closet, so they just went with the odds. 

[Mike and Carol]

56 minutes ago, Voyager said:

And lastly, I have to add one more personal observation about curtain-less wet baths . . . I'll frequently see where others say that they're "no trouble at all" or how they're actually "less work" than dry baths, because all you have to do is dry everything in the bathroom off when done showering, but this is absurd! If you use soap when showering (like most people on Earth), then you're gonna have dirt, body oils, soap scum and shampoo residue, coating the floor, the toilet and everything else in that enclosed area, and that's not "less" work in my view.

We often say the bathroom is the cleanest area of the trailer.  We don’t use a curtain and do use soap and shampoo.  No issue with creepy residue, we squeegee and wipe with a microfiber.  We do rinse remaining suds down the drain.  One or two minutes max, not absurd at all.

[mossemi]

When I first saw the title of this post, I thought I’m not taking this bait, it screamed trouble to me.  It’s kind of like the old Oscar Meyer Wiener commercial when the kids sang "my dog's better than your dog".  And it also reminded me of the advice my father gave me "never resist the opportunity to keep you mouth shut". 

But when it turned funny; I couldn’t help myself.  When I bought my Oliver, the previous owner didn’t call it a wet bath, he called it the bidet option and it made sense to me, after all I had never used a bidet.

Full disclosure: at our sticks and bricks house, the last one in the shower, gets to clean the shower.  Same thing in the Ollie.  And somehow that is always me.  No big deal, unless I make it one.  And if you really want to know how that works out, just let me know.

Mossey

[TexasGuy]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

Thanks Overland, and yes, I think I'd be a good candidate to answer your question regarding the wet bath concern.

First off, let me say that before I stumbled into the Oliver product line, I didn't even know that wet baths existed in travel trailers! That's how ignorant or uninformed I was. I've owned several offshore boats in the 28-35 foot range over the years, that had 'wet' baths, but I had never previously seen one in a travel trailer.

To be perfectly frank, although I fully understand the spatial constraints inherent to a relatively short 23-foot platform, I was nevertheless 'stunned' to find it in a travel trailer, that when fully loaded with features, is priced at nearly $90,000. THAT, is simply colossal money in my world, and depending on the particular parameters one might use to compare the two, it's arguably MORE expensive than a comparable Airstream. Then, add to that, the fact that I'm 6-foot 2-inches tall and the shower stall in the LE-II is only 6-foot, and you begin to feel cold feet creeping in.

And lastly, I have to add one more personal observation about curtain-less wet baths . . . I'll frequently see where others say that they're "no trouble at all" or how they're actually "less work" than dry baths, because all you have to do is dry everything in the bathroom off when done showering, but this is absurd! If you use soap when showering (like most people on Earth), then you're gonna have dirt, body oils, soap scum and shampoo residue, coating the floor, the toilet and everything else in that enclosed area, and that's not "less" work in my view.

So basically, my overall point is this . . . for $85-$90,000 fully loaded, I would have liked to stand fully 'upright' in my shower, not have to dry anything and everything off each time, and not have to scrub the floors and fixtures every single time the shower is used. But in fairness, that's just me. Your mileage may vary. 😉

Anyway, I hope this added information helps answer your question(s).

When I started looking at fiberglass trailers I noticed that wet baths are the norm. I assumed it had to do with smaller footprint as fiberglass models tend to be narrower compared to stick built.   The process to build and test a new fiberglass mold seems to be expensive and time consuming and I assume partly why you don’t see as many  floorplan options especially in double hulled trailer like Oliver.  
 

I have used enough RVs with a wet bath to realize it wasn’t a deal breaker. Sure a dry bath is nice but the time I spend each day in bathroom is tiny and I’d rather have space used elsewhere like a closet for storage.  
 

At the end of day just a matter a what qualities matter most and that will drive RV you end up with.    
 

Good luck.  

[Voyager]

" . . . it screamed trouble to me" . . . . "my dog's better than your dog" . . . etc., etc.

Nope. No screaming trouble here! No bigger or better dog, neither! Don't own either one of these fine trailers, and I'm not sure that I ever will, but I do know one thing for-sure -  I DO know how its all gonna work out. 😏

[SeaDawg]

The airstream globetrotter 23fb is quite pretty.  But, it would never work for me. 

We always seek out campsites with beautiful views, and some solitude. Back in the early days, I  often posted photos showing the view from my big rear window, as most of those view campsites are back-in.

The globetrotter 23fb devotes the best real estate in the trailer , the entire back end, to the bathroom. Which doesn't even have a tiny window to the view.

What would be my view from the big front pano windows, lying in bed? The back of my truck. And that, only if I  got up on my elbow,  and twisted my neck around, because the twin beds are forced to orient to the wall between the salon and the bedroom by the little hanging cupboards at the foot of the bed.

It's really my belief that as design is geared more to people who spend a lot of time in resort style parks. That's all good, and it's been obviously a successful market for them. I'm just not part of that market segment.

Btw, "lipstick on a pig," that popular American phrase, has been used by many politicians over the past couple decades. But I don't think the late John McCain was one of them. I won't go into it further here, as we have a policy to avoid politics on our discussions. It keeps things oriented toward camping and trailers. 😉

Edited January 12, 2021 by SeaDawg
Correct autocorrect.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

46 minutes ago, Mike and Carol said:

We often say the bathroom is the cleanest area of the trailer.  We don’t use a curtain and do use soap and shampoo.  No issue with creepy residue, we squeegee and wipe with a microfiber.  We do rinse remaining suds down the drain.  One or two minutes max, not absurd at all.

And a deeper clean can always be performed between excursions, provided you aren't a full-timer.

[Voyager]

"When I started looking at fiberglass trailers I noticed that wet baths are the norm. I assumed it had to do with smaller footprint as fiberglass models tend to be narrower compared to stick built."

Muchas gracias, Tejas !

Yup. I think you're right on that point, and I think the smaller footprint applies to more than just the difference in width (7-ft. Ollie vs. 8-ft. AS). I think it may apply to overall length by a greater margin than I had originally anticipated as well. For example, I'll often see someone who says that the tailgate of the average towing truck can be fully lowered with the Oilver's (which is awesome!), and I'm not sure whether or not that's true with Airstream, but if it ISN'T true of the Airstream, then I suspect the functional (interior) length of the AS, may also be sizably larger than the LS-II by more than just a few inches.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

30 minutes ago, TexasGuy said:

When I started looking at fiberglass trailers I noticed that wet baths are the norm. I assumed it had to do with smaller footprint as fiberglass models tend to be narrower compared to stick built.   The process to build and test a new fiberglass mold seems to be expensive and time consuming and I assume partly why you don’t see as many  floorplan options especially in double hulled trailer like Oliver.  
 

I have used enough RVs with a wet bath to realize it wasn’t a deal breaker. Sure a dry bath is nice but the time I spend each day in bathroom is tiny and I’d rather have space used elsewhere like a closet for storage.  
 

At the end of day just a matter a what qualities matter most and that will drive RV you end up with.    
 

Good luck.  

The only thing I miss about the dry-bath is the stand alone shower makes a great closet - which is how we mostly used ours in our Class C motorhome, since large storage compartments were few.

[Jim_Oker]

Voyager - sounds like you  maybe shouldn't get an Oliver, and an AS may or may not be right for you. As a colleague puts it, "every tool  is  best for  something and worst for something else. 

When I finally settled on the E2, I  had  looked at LOTS  of floorplans of other  trailers including  AS,  and this  was one of the checkmarks in the E2 column for me (whereas others  may assess floorplans differently for perfectly valid-for-them reasons). And i  see SeaDawg has  already made another  point I  came here  to  add  - the windows.  I love that wraparound window on the AS but for the life of me I  can't figure  out whey it's  stuck  on the tow hitch  end which almost always  ends up facing the least scenic side of any of the sites in which  I've seen Airstreams camped (except maybe  in cramped RV village type campgrounds such as the one right at the South  Rim of the Grand Canyon where ANY view  you  get is just of other RVs... in which case I'd be drawing the blinds anyway and spending most  of my waking hourse outside of the camper). I wish there was a bit more window area in the Ollie but not using  the  A S design which  just  seems weird!

Edited January 12, 2021 by Jim_Oker

[Voyager]

"The only thing I miss about the dry-bath is the stand alone shower makes a great closet"

Yeah but, that's the thing . . . If you're over 6-feet tall, it ain't really a "stand" alone, its a "crouch" alone.  😉

[Ray and Susan Huff]

3 minutes ago, Voyager said:

"When I started looking at fiberglass trailers I noticed that wet baths are the norm. I assumed it had to do with smaller footprint as fiberglass models tend to be narrower compared to stick built."

Muchas gracias, Tejas !

Yup. I think you're right on that point, and I think the smaller footprint applies to more than just the difference in width (7-ft. Ollie vs. 8-ft. AS). I think it may apply to overall length by a greater margin than I had originally anticipated as well. For example, I'll often see someone who says that the tailgate of the average towing truck can be fully lowered with the Oilver's (which is awesome!), and I'm not sure whether or not that's true with Airstream, but if it ISN'T true of the Airstream, then I suspect the functional (interior) length of the AS, may also be sizably larger than the LS-II by more than just a few inches.

And the Oliver also allows the use of a bike rack between the tow vehicle and the Oliver's tongue jack.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

4 minutes ago, Jim_Oker said:

Voyager - sounds like you  maybe shouldn't get an Oliver, and an AS may or may not be right for you. As a colleague puts it, "every tool  is  best for  something and worst for something else. 

When I finally settled on the E2, I  had  looked at LOTS  of floorplans of other  trailers including  AS,  and this  was one of the checkmarks in the E2 column for me (whereas others  may assess floorplans differently for perfectly valid-for-them reasons). And i  see SeaDawg has  already made another  point I  came here  to  add  - the windows.  I love that wraparound window on the AS but for the life of me I  can't figure  out whey it's  stuck  on the tow hitch  end which almost always  ends up facing the least scenic side of any of the sites in which  I've seen Airstreams camped (except maybe  in cramped RV village type campgrounds such as the one right at the South  Rim of the Grand Canyon where ANY view  you  get is just of other RVs... in which case I'd be drawing the blinds anyway and spending most  of my waking hourse outside of the camper). I wish there was a bit more window area in the Ollie but not using  the  A S design which  just  seems weird!

I agree, not to mention the need to have some protection on windows located on the tongue side of a trailer.

[SeaDawg]

7 minutes ago, Ray and Susan Huff said:

The only thing I miss about the dry-bath is the stand alone shower makes a great closet - which is how we mostly used ours in our Class C motorhome, since large storage compartments were few.

We often keep the laundry basket, mop, broom, bucket, etc in the shower of the rvs we deliver to Alaska. A minute to unload, another to reload after showers. In our boat, the dry bath shower often doubles as a sail locker, plus mop and bucket. (Second head on the boat is a wet bath. We also added a handheld shower to the sink and toilet room of the big head, so it's basically a wet bath, as well.)

Same deal.

Probably the biggest selling point for me in dry bath. Lol. A bit of extra storage. 

[Voyager]

"I can't figure  out whey it's  stuck  on the tow hitch end which almost always  ends up facing the least scenic side of any of the sites in which  I've seen Airstreams camped."

Thanks Jim,

I can't really say at this point whether the dry bath is a deal-breaker for us or not. In truth, I suspect now. The fact is, the low ceiling in the shower is as big a hindrance for me personally as the dry bath is, but regarding window and wet bath placement that you and SeaDawg have both mentioned . . . I get that complaint completely, and I agree, because its definitely not ideal in the Airstream. But for the sake of conversation, I'll flip the tables on you and say that I would have liked to see a front window on the Olivers, because we've had several instances in past years where someone was dinking around with our truck or its bed contents in the middle of the night, and you'd have no way to see that kind of activity from the front of the Oliver. So it cuts both ways.

[Ray and Susan Huff]

2 minutes ago, SeaDawg said:

We often keep the laundry basket, mop, broom, bucket, etc in the shower of the rvs we deliver to Alaska. A minute to unload, another to reload after showers. In our boat, the dry bath shower often doubles as a sail locker, plus mop and bucket. (Second head on the boat is a wet bath. We also added a handheld shower to the sink and toilet room of the big head, so it's basically a wet bath, as well.)

Same deal.

Probably the biggest selling point for me in dry bath. Lol. A bit of extra storage. 

And, as you mention, great for storing wet items; I once carried my wet inflatable kayak in the shower when my husband couldn't wait for it to dry before hitting the road 😊

 

[Voyager]

Sorry, but I don't get all this business about a wet bath being a great place to store wet or dry objects? Space is space, right? I mean, wouldn't all of those purported 'storage advantages' apply equally well to a dry bath, just as much as a wet one? I just don't see the logic there. 

[SeaDawg]

5 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Thanks Jim,

I can't really say at this point whether the dry bath is a deal-breaker for us or not. In truth, I suspect now. The fact is, the low ceiling in the shower is as big a hindrance for me personally as the dry bath is, but regarding window and wet bath placement that you and SeaDawg have both mentioned . . . I get that complaint completely, and I agree, because its definitely not ideal in the Airstream. But for the sake of conversation, I'll flip the tables on you and say that I would have liked to see a front window on the Olivers, because we've had several instances in past years where someone was dinking around with our truck or its bed contents in the middle of the night, and you'd have no way to see that kind of activity from the front of the Oliver. So it cuts both ways

I get that. The first class c motorhome I  borrowed from my parents, almost 50 years ago, had a wet bath so tiny that I,  at a whopping 5' 5" found it easier to sit down and shower than fight the walls. I got used to it in a hurry. I  managed through an entire summer of adventures. (Worse, it was difficult to turn around, even brush teeth in the tiny floor space in front of the toilet.)

Wireless cameras are pretty inexpensive these days. I'd look at mounting one on the front of our trailer if I felt the need. I don't,  because of where we camp. Few things happen in the boonies. Our dog would probably hear someone before the camera alerted us, anyway.

[Voyager]

SeaDawg,

Great point about having a watchdog. Sadly, "our" (the wife's!) dog, is a worthless little foo-foo, scared of it's own danged shadow!! I miss our dual-Akita days in 80s-90s Alaska. But then again, that wouldn't work either, as they'd occupy an entire E2 all by their lonesome! 😄 

I should also add that in an upside-down, almost ironic twist, the bulk of our vandalism-while-camping incidents over the years, have occurred in the areas you'd least expect it - remote corners of Montana and Wyoming, often during hunting trips.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Voyager
Addition