Cannot pump water from fresh tank

[Wayfinder]

My freshwater tank is full, water pump is on, but I'm not getting any water coming through the system. Do you see anything wrong with the valve configuration for the 2016 Elite 2?

I have been able to pump in the winterization configuration when I cleaned out everything with vinegar water. 

[mossemi]

54 minutes ago, Wayfinder said:

My freshwater tank is full, water pump is on, but I'm not getting any water coming through the system. Do you see anything wrong with the valve configuration for the 2016 Elite 2?

I have been able to pump in the winterization configuration when I cleaned out everything with vinegar water. 

I edited your photo to add port designations for clarification.  
I can’t see all of the piping in the picture, but I assume that port A goes to the filter/suction side of the pump.  And port B is closed by the valve, so port C should be from the fresh water tank.  I can not be sure that port C is in fact from the fresh water tank or where port B goes or comes from.  Can you verify the piping for ports B and C under the heating duct?  It may be the the valve is in the incorrect position.

Mossey
 

 

 

 

[Wayfinder]

I cannot be sure myself. This is the first time I'm attempting to pump from fresh tank. 

This pic is from the factory, I'm sure.  

[Wayfinder]

Both houses going to the pump are empty and the bowl is empty too. 

[John E Davies]

A completely dry pump may not be able to prime itself. You can try this: unscrew the inlet hose at the far end, tilt it up, pour water into it and into the filter. That may be all it needs to get pumping. 

My system airlocks sometimes when towing with a partial fresh tank, I just let the air bleed out the faucets, or turn the supply valves so the flow runs straight back the return (tank fill) line into the tank for 20 seconds. That bleeds the air pretty well.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[mossemi]

I would try JD's suggestion before anything else.  If you do not understand what he means about filling the supply line, please ask for clarification.

Now I have another question.  Does the pump run when you turn it on and open a faucet?

I reread your original post and you did say the pump was on and I assume you could hear the pump running and you did use the rear port to draw in the vinegar solution to clean the system.

Mosssey

Edited September 12, 2021 by mossemi
Strike through

[topgun2]

I've got a 2016 also and it appears to me that your valves ARE in the correct positions.  Given this, the first thing I would do in addition to JD's advice would be to make sure that all connections are tight and that I didn't have a leak.

Bill

[Wayfinder]

Ok. I did what JD suggested. Although I did not get much in the left side white line. The other side appeared to have water in it when loosening up the fitting. If I can upload this video you'll see it's making a hell of a racket but I am getting water through the system now. Suggestions for the very loud pumping. The pump itself is very quiet until the pressure is built up. The entire water system is just banging and knocking like crazy. If I wait long enough and run water long enough I assume that goes away?

Hopefully I've set the permissions correctly on this video. To hear the noise. It's even louder up front in bathroom. Pump also turns on and off every few minutes just for a split second. Could that indicate a leak in the system where pressure is being released?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ppIlm1Bx_7EqSiWVP_uRH0zHOGFhJf4w/view?usp=drivesdk

[John E Davies]

That is air in the system…. Or a failed impeller. If it doesn’t go away after running water from both faucets, the outside shower and the toilet, you need another pump, or you can rebuild your impeller section. I would replace the entire assembly, then open up the old one, if it is repairable you can fix it and keep it as a spare. This is a typical kit, it costs almost as much as an assembly,

The rapid cycling indicates a leak, perhaps from the pump check valve. Perhaps a very small connection leak somewhere under the floor or sink. My pump cycles a fraction of a second about every 15 minutes. I have no accumulator like the later trailers which will help this.

You can easily remove the pump and “bench test” it using a bucket of water if you connect extension wires to the power and ground ones. That will tell you immediately if the pump has gone Tango Uniform, or if it is something else.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

[mossemi]

1 hour ago, John E Davies said:

My pump cycles a fraction of a second about every 15 minutes.

Can you clarify this statement?  The pump is obviously on but there is no demand for water and the pump is losing pressure very, very slowly is my best guess.  And my best guesses generally get me in trouble.

Nice diagnosis on the air in the system!
 

Mossey

[Wayfinder]

@mossemi. Your guess is my description. I did not stay boondocking too long to. I'm back on city water at the moment. When I get the energy up to test everything again I'll see if the knocking goes away and if the pump continues to runs for a moment, periodically, without any demand for water. 

[Fritz]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:55 PM, John E Davies said:

A completely dry pump may not be able to prime itself. You can try this: unscrew the inlet hose at the far end, tilt it up, pour water into it and into the filter. That may be all it needs to get pumping. 

 

Could you please clarify what you mean by this?

Our pump (in a 2021 LE2) is sputtering ... it blows air, then pumps water, then sputters, etc.  I installed the anti-free kit a couple of days ago; a portion of the water heater drained out in the process.  When I attach a supply hose to the city water connection it sputtered at the faucet at first, then it produced water from the hot and cold faucet sides, just as it should.  The tank is full.  The filter has water, but it is only about 3/4 full -- perhaps an indication of air in the system? 

Anyone -- any ideas?  Heading for the mountains in the morning, and I would like for this to work...

Thanks!!

[LCTraveler]

I had a similar thing happen where my pump was sputtering air and water mix and I could see that the filter bowl was only maybe half full. In my case I had taken the pump and filter apart trying to troubleshoot a problem and had inadvertently pinched the gasket in the filter bowl to where it could not seal properly. I was able to unscrew the filter bowl and correct the alignment of the gasket and all was well again. One of many self inflicted gunshot wounds I have caused myself.

let me know if you want to talk this through more.

Mike

 

[Fritz]

Yep, continued fussing with it and found the exact same thing.  I went through several tries of purging with city water and then trying the pump again, and when that didn't work realized that the filter was bubbling: air getting in!  Took off the filter cap and, just like you, saw that the gasket was not seated properly.  Reseated the gasket, and viola, it works again!  Thank you so much for the reply -- had I not found it your comments would have steered me to the right spot.  And yes, a self-inflicted wound; I had removed the filter to clean it earlier today.  I'm amazed that after 3 1/2 months of use the filter continues to collect substantial amounts of plastic shrapnel.  

[Wayfinder]

Well, I found the source of of the water pump noise.  I think it's this part:
https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-94-800-02-Water-Drive-Assembly/dp/B00UYWVB0C/ref=sr_1_18?dchild=1&keywords=shurflo+4008+parts&qid=1632405066&sr=8-18

[topgun2]

Ouch!

Glad you found the issue.

[Wayfinder]

Good grief Charlie Brown, this part is more than 50% the cost of a new pump with all new parts.  I think I'll get the new part AND a new pump.  Winter is coming and I'm full-timing in it for now.  I think someone said it might be a good idea to have an extra on-hand anyways.  Why not?!

[John E Davies]

23 minutes ago, Wayfinder said:

Good grief Charlie Brown, this part is more than 50% the cost of a new pump with all new parts.  

That is common with RV parts, a single OEM Dexter auto adjust electric brake with backing plate is about $65 (discounted online prices quoted). A cheap no name clone is half that. Manual adjust versions, which I much prefer, are cheaper still. OTH a pair of replacement Dexter shoes is $65. A spring and arm rebuild kit is $40+. All individual parts would be special order at a dealer…… From a customer standpoint it makes zero sense. For an RV dealer it is great, the service department can just swap assemblies, charge double for the parts (full MSRP) and say, see how much we saved you? Plus they offer a warranty, which doesn’t happen with a rebuild or repair.

Save the good pump parts, put them into your ever increasing stash of RV spare parts, buy a new assembly. 

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Wayfinder]

If I keep too many spare parts it could cost me $60K+, for a RAM 2500. I only have a 1500 now and I'm full-timing solo these days, so can't add too much more weight. LOL 

A spare water pump boondocking seems like a must. 

[Wayfinder]

Oh, and another electrical wire fell off the pump itself on this last trip. Had to snug up the "bite" on the connector. Easy fix. 

[Mike and Carol]

40 minutes ago, Wayfinder said:

Oh, and another electrical wire fell off the pump itself on this last trip. Had to snug up the "bite" on the connector. Easy fix. 

I suffered from water pump wire detachment syndrome too.  Pliers  provided the cure, same as you.  Mike

[Wayfinder]

Well, the new water pump arrived before the new part for the old pump.  The pump works like a champ.  It took a while to get the air out of the lines, but finally succeeded.  

More basic maintenance to come in preparation for Winter camping, in NC.

Water pump model: SHURflo 12v 3.0 GPM Revolution RV Water Pump # 4008-101-A65

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010TKMK4O?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

[Scott_Kisling]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:55 PM, John E Davies said:

A completely dry pump may not be able to prime itself. You can try this: unscrew the inlet hose at the far end, tilt it up, pour water into it and into the filter. That may be all it needs to get pumping. 

My system airlocks sometimes when towing with a partial fresh tank, I just let the air bleed out the faucets, or turn the supply valves so the flow runs straight back the return (tank fill) line into the tank for 20 seconds. That bleeds the air pretty well.

John Davies

Spokane WA

Thanks, John, for saving my ass again. Simply setting the Prestone on the bumper was enough for the pump to self-prime. I'd had thought my engineering degree would be helpful for more than calculating heavy lifts and overhauling turbine generators, but sometimes forget the basics.