HOW TO: Replace the 120 VAC refrigerator outlet under the galley sink water lines, with a WATERPROOF junction box

[John E Davies]

NEW JUNCTION BOX:

This has literally been bugging me for five years, from the first time I saw a picture of the outlet mounted right below the faucet water supply hoses and the drain pipes. It is not even a GFCI outlet! If there is a water leak, it could be dangerous.

Sorry for the rotated pics, some come through this way! Remove the two lower drawers by squeezing the orange release things, and lift up and out. Remove the flip out tray screws. Remove the tee piece (three long screws) and then the 1/8' plywood access panel. DISCONNECT SHORE POWER, double check to make sure these wires cannot be energized! Flip the main breaker to make sure!

I measured the space and found that it is too tight to install a waterproof "in use" outlet cover.

I even tried, I ordered one from Amazon, I can return it easily. Nope, it won't work.

I decided to eliminate the outlet entirely. I am not sure why Oliver did not hard wire this in the first place...... I found this plastic junction box at Home Depot:

Here is what comes in that kit:

This is a true approved 100% waterproof cover;

Dimensions. It is plenty thin to fit in that area.

 

More to follow.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[John E Davies]

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Fabricate a bracket from 0.050" aluminum sheet, that will allow you to attach the box to the existing hose support. After installing the blank plugs and two threaded ports, seal them from the inside with PVC cement.

Remove the outlet cover, outlet and the blue box. (The lower outlet screw hole was stripped, so the screw just spun. I bent up the outlet, cut the wires and removed the two screws holding the box to its support block.) Reroute the original wires to the new box after cutting and stripping the ends.

This shows the new j box next to the old parts.

Afer CAREFULLY joining the wires, install the box plate onto the water hose mount. Secure the inside of the each of the two harnesses with a nylon tie. Leave the two bottom holes unsealed, water cannot get in that way.

Install split loom and secure the fridge power wire to an existing hole in the original outlet mount. This pic is rotated!

The finished j box. Note that this shows the additional 1 inch R5 insulation I also added to this area and under the range top.

Black to black, white to white, green to bare ground.

Label the cover before installing it!

I think this should be done at the factory, they could simply install a larger HDPE block and attach the box directly to that.

EDIT: I submitted a Service Ticket with this request. I will update this thread with any new info.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

 

 

[Galway Girl]

John,

Very slick to install that metal plate then mount the junction box to the plate.
Am I interpreting correctly that you have have 4 screws securing the mounting plate to the water line backing plate?
That should hold it pretty well as long as the backing board stays attached to the sidewall.

Here's what I see inside my hull 505 with my impression of what you did:

(*new backing plate yellow, mounting screws black, new box grey) 

 

As to your earlier post about the sink and the water coupler, my unit has no blue coupler on the pull out hose.
The hose comes from the faucet, makes a loop back up to the nozzle with no coupler, but it does have a weight.

I'll do the mod you just showed before I leave on our next long trip.

Craig 

 

 

 

 

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, Galway Girl said:

Am I interpreting correctly that you have have 4 screws securing the mounting plate to the water line backing plate?
That should hold it pretty well as long as the backing board stays attached to the sidewall.

Yes, four big (#12 I think) sheet metal screws CUT TO LENGTH - there is only 3/8" of HDPE material to screw them into, which is why I used so many screws.  Be exceptionally careful drilling the holes, so you don't punch holes into the outer hull! I have mounted blocks of this material elsewhere, I much prefer the 1" thickness since it grabs the screw threads sooooooo much better.

John Davies

Spokane WA 

[John E Davies]

EDIT: It is possible that your fridge cord is not quite long enough to reach the new box, You can open up the bottom fridge access panel (outside the trailer) and see if there is some slack there that you can use to make it a little longer. The cable comes in at the very bottom left corner and attaches to the main circuit board under the plastic cover.If you still don't have enough length, you will have to remove that section and replace it with a longer piece of "house wire". Mine reached, barely.

If you do run a new wire, be sure to re-seal the opening, That area should be "propane tight" to prevent a leak from penetrating the hull.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Galway Girl]

Thanks for the added and important detail 

[BillATX]

Thank you so much.  I have been thinking about this since I got my Ollie 1 year ago.  This solves a real hassle for me.

My trailer is a 2021 Elite 1.  Every time I travel I have to plug in the fridge cord to the outlet (if I want ot run the fridge off AC).  Obviously, this requres me to remove a drawer and and stretch my arm back there, feel around and plug it back in.  For some reason, the plug always dislodges during travel.  I have tried to secure it with zip tie and duck tape.....to no avail.

Thanks for the detailed instructions.

Bill

[John E Davies]

1 hour ago, BillATX said:

My trailer is a 2021 Elite 1.  Every time I travel I have to plug in the fridge cord to the outlet (if I want ot run the fridge off AC).  Obviously, this requres me to remove a drawer and and stretch my arm back there, feel around and plug it back in.  For some reason, the plug always dislodges during travel.  I have tried to secure it with zip tie and duck tape.....to no avail.

I wonder why your plug keeps coming out? It sounds as if the outlet is defective. Mine fit very tightly. There is no way it would have worked it’s way out, it was fine for five years…. Did you ever submit a service request? At the very least, it lets Oliver know that there is a problem with some hulls. Maybe enough complaints will get them to install a junction box during production instead of this stupid setup😳. Or issue a tech bulletin about it for existing trailers. Even if it technically “meets RV code”, it is absolutely dangerous, especially in your situation, where you are constantly fumbling around in a (potentially) wet area! No GFCI protection! ZAP!

Please take pictures, the LE may be different from the LE2. You can post them in this thread or start a new one if you like. Thanks.

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Rivernerd]

John Davies, your tutorial is excellent, as usual.

As one with an Elite II on order, I asked my Oliver sales rep about the non-GFCI refrigerator receptacle.  I was advised that it meets "RVIA standards," but was also told that Oliver engineering would take another look at the issue.  I expect those RVIA standards are the minimums, such as for run-of-the-mill "stick and staple" trailers.  IMHO, premium-priced trailers like the Oliver should do more than the minimum, particularly when it comes to safety. 

I note that a GFCI refrigerator receptacle could be problematic.  It would be a PITA to pull the drawers and remove the access panel every time there is a nuisance trip.  John Davies' hard-wired, waterproof j-box avoids this issue.

If our Elite II comes with the same non-GFCI receptacle with standard plug that has been used for years, I have a different solution in mind:  replace the breaker for that circuit with a GFCI breaker.  More expensive than John Davies' solution, but much less work to implement.

As an alternative, BillATX could replace his loose receptacle with one of the newer tamper-resistant ones, which I find hold plugs almost too well, then also replace the breaker with a GFCI breaker.  I expect that would entail less work reaching through between the drawer supports, which sound terribly uncomfortable to my bad back.....

 

 

 

 

[Steph and Dud B]

1 hour ago, Rivernerd said:

replace the breaker for that circuit with a GFCI breaker

I was thinking the same thing. However, is the fridge on the same breaker as the rest of the outlets? That would give you daisy chained GFCIs. Shouldn't be a problem but remember, if one trips the other will, too. 

[SeaDawg]

In our 2008, the fridge is separate from the gfci, and any other trailer circuit. 

Don't know about newer trailers. 

[John E Davies]

The fridge in Hull 218 (2017) is also a separate, dedicated circuit.

Jason in Service told me in an email that Oliver is looking into this and he will post an official comment when he knows more. I cannot say more.

John Davies

Spokane WA
 

[Rivernerd]

14 hours ago, Steph and Dud B said:

is the fridge on the same breaker as the rest of the outlets?

According to Jason Essary in his 2021 Full Delivery Walkthrough video, no.  He explains that all circuits in the trailer are protected by the GFCI under the dinette seat, except the refrigerator circuit.

[John E Davies]

My personal opinion:

The fridge outlet is put in place when the lower half of the outer hull is wired (in compliance with the RV code) to make it very fast and easy for the tech to connect the fridge when that is installed later. It would take much longer to connect a hard wired junction box and install its cover, perhaps another ten to fifteen minutes. That adds up in production costs. This is the same reason they use regular solid core “house wire” and outlets with “back stab” connections which are flaky and unreliable even in the stationary walls of your home…. . Those make it fast and simple for relatively untrained people to install electrical components, compared to the much higher quality (and much more expensive) marine grade multi-strand wire ….https://www.amazon.com/10-AWG-Triplex-Marine-Wire/dp/B06X6L6W2C   ….. and crimped end terminals, which IMHO “should” be used in Ollies. These are used in those high end expedition vehicle$; no way would Earth Roamer select house wire…. 

Oliver would either need to just absorb that extra production cost or bump up the price again to compensate. Improvements like this j-box change are “death by a thousand cuts” to a company’s profits. They have to weigh that against customer satisfaction, future warranty costs, and the very remote likelihood of a lawsuit from somebody who has a lethal accident fumbling around back there with wet hands…. 

I think they are much more likely to switch to a GFCI outlet there instead of a waterproof solution like mine. That would probably cost less in the long run than the increased installation labor needed to hardwire a j-box. It is also a much easier solution for retrofitting earlier hulls if they ever decide to issue a Technical Bulletin.

My OPINION.  😀

John Davies

Spokane WA

[Geronimo John]

On 4/5/2022 at 2:47 AM, Rivernerd said:

According to Jason Essary in his 2021 Full Delivery Walkthrough video, no.  He explains that all circuits in the trailer are protected by the GFCI under the dinette seat, except the refrigerator circuit.

As such, one could logically deduce that the refrigerator is on a different circuit, and OTT has run the wire to it in such a way that it passes behind the sink.

On 4/5/2022 at 3:52 AM, John E Davies said:

I think they are much more likely to switch to a GFCI outlet there instead of a waterproof solution like mine.

Should this be the case, when I upgrade my refrigerator down the road, I will have the ability to better consider routing of power to the frig.  I'll look hard at replacing this line in such a manner that it does not even transit this potentially wet area.

GJ