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Lithium battery discharge


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As always, follow your manufacturer's instructions, but you can take lithiums down much farther than lead-acid or AGM. Usually down to around 10% is acceptable. The Lithionics manual is in Oliver University.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

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Not sure which lithium batteries you have.  I’ve been considering upgrading my lead acid wet cell batteries to lithium and have been looking at manufacturers specs.  The BattleBorn lithiums state a 100% usable depth of discharge (see data sheet).  The battery has its own built in battery management system to protect it from damage.  I’d probably never go that low, all the way to 0%, but nice to know it’s not a problem if it ever does happen. 

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2019 Oliver Legacy Elite II - Hull #461

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1 hour ago, Frank C said:

The BattleBorn lithiums state a 100% usable depth of discharge

According to Battleborn, you won’t harm the batteries, the BMS will cut it off.   The problem is the voltage will drop below “usable” for some circuits.   According to their manual, there is a curve showing the voltage of 12V at 9%, so the 10% rule of thumb mentioned by Steph & Dud B is acceptable.  

BB 100AH Manual

BB has a YouTube video explaining this subject.

BB Discharging Batteries to 100%

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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1 hour ago, Frank C said:

I’ve been considering upgrading my lead acid wet cell batteries to lithium and have been looking at manufacturers specs.

I received a nice little graphic in an email from BB this week that can help with a cost/benefit analysis. 

Battle Born's reliable, safe, and non-toxic LiFePO4 batteries last 10x longer than lead acid. They are 1/5th the weight for the same amount of usable power, charge 5x faster, require zero maintenance, and are backed by an industry-leading 10 year warranty.

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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Battle Born's reliable, safe, and non-toxic LiFePO4 batteries last 10x longer than lead acid.

Probably correct, I believe this to be true.

 

They are 1/5th the weight for the same amount of usable power.

Correct as written, but a lithium battery will still weigh 1/2 of what a similarly sized lead acid will weigh. 

They charge 5x faster.

They CAN charge 5x faster IF you have a charger that can put out 5x the amps of what you currently have. 
 

require zero maintenance.
 

NOTHING requires ZERO maintenance. 
 

and are backed by an industry-leading 10 year warranty.

True…

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher and Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie and Lucy (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

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2 hours ago, ScubaRx said:

They CAN charge 5x faster IF you have a charger that can put out 5x the amps of what you currently have. 

I was just passing along BattleBorns Marketing info, I’m not an electrical expert and cannot vouch for their data.   Apologies if this was taken otherwise.   Perhaps I don’t understand, but I think your comment above is valid if you interpret their performance claim as the rate of charge.   I interpret the performance claim of 5x faster refers to the charge efficiency, ie the time to bring a discharged battery up to a full charge.   From what I’ve read, for any charge current (amps), a LiFePOH battery can fully charge up to 4x faster time than a comparable capacity AGM.   That depends on many factors of course.   Is this incorrect?  If so, please explain.  This detail is a huge benefit to those of us who dry camp and rely on our solar panels to recharge.

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“Ramble” - 2021 Legacy Elite II #797;  2020 Ford F-250

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23 hours ago, Marty Coleman said:

I think I have read that one shouldn't run Lithium batteries down below 50%.

Is that right?

thanks.

Marty

Marty,

In addition to what was said above, we had two 100AH AGM batteries weighing in at 67 pounds each replacing them with one 100AH Battleborn lithium weighing in at 31 pounds to do the same job as the previous batteries.

This change reduced battery weight with improved battery performance with faster charging and can discharge the Battleborn well below 50% as discussed above.

https://www.batteriesplus.com/product-details/marine_rv/battery/duracell-ultra/sli27magmdc

https://battlebornbatteries.com/product/12v-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/

Very pleased with the Battleborn 100AH battery performance.

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@rideandfly, we keep looking at this, too. We have 2x 105 ah deka/east penn agms in our elite, roughly 130 pounds. A single 100 ah battleborn (29 pounds?) would give us equivalent usable amp hours, and cut the weight significantly, and not really cost a lot more, considering the projected life. Probably the same, per amp hour per year. (We typically get 5 to 8 years from agms.) Would cost less if we caught a sale.

And, we could double our usable amp hours, with 2 batteries, for a price... We debate often if we "need" it, or just "want" the extra hours. We camp pretty simply, without a lot of electricity consumption,  but the dc danfoss/secop electric fridge does consume some significant amp hours. 

We're hoping for another season or two on the agms, before we have to decide. Current agms appear to be healthy, so,  we'll see. 

In your case, I think you made the perfect choice. 👌 

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2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

 

 

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SeaDawg,

We reduced our batteries from 2 AGMs weighing 134 pounds to 1 lithium weighing 31 pounds.
 

We just returned from a three night camping trip at a COE campground with electric and water at the site.
 

Turned the onboard 12V  battery charger off when we arrived and did not turn it back on until the morning we headed home. We operated lights, TV, everything that runs off of 12V and the lithium battery was down to 50% on the morning of departure. 
 

Normally it takes about an hour to charge the lithium battery from 70% to 100% with the onboard PD 4045 charger powered by shore power or a Honda 2000 gen-set. 
 

We have the Dometic three way refrigerator. Only operate it on gas or 120V. If we had a compressor refrigerator, would probably want at least two 100AH lithium batteries, for poor solar days. That modification might gain weight, something I don’t want to do, keeping Ollie’s weight low. Guessing the compressor refrigerator is lighter than the Dometic 3 way refrigerator. 
 

Experimenting right now with charging the 100AH lithium with two 100W suitcase solar panels. May buy a MPPT charge controller next. Will see!

Thanks!

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Tundra LE2

 

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21 hours ago, Hokieman said:

I was just passing along BattleBorns Marketing info, I’m not an electrical expert and cannot vouch for their data.   Apologies if this was taken otherwise.   Perhaps I don’t understand, but I think your comment above is valid if you interpret their performance claim as the rate of charge.   I interpret the performance claim of 5x faster refers to the charge efficiency, ie the time to bring a discharged battery up to a full charge.   From what I’ve read, for any charge current (amps), a LiFePOH battery can fully charge up to 4x faster time than a comparable capacity AGM.   That depends on many factors of course.   Is this incorrect?  If so, please explain.  This detail is a huge benefit to those of us who dry camp and rely on our solar panels to recharge.

Up to around 150 continuous amps, a single 100 amp hour LiFePO4 battery can take all the current you can throw at it. The PD chargers in our Oliver’s put out 45-60 amps depending on how old your trailer is. The limiting factor here is the wire size going from the charger to the batteries. You can’t necessarily just add a higher output charger without considering the wiring too. 
 

The Xantrex 3000 watt inverter/charger has a maximum 150 amp output.

FYI: AGM batteries should not be charged at a rate greater than 25% of their stated battery capacity. The battery capacity is indicated by Ah (amp hour).

 

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Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher and Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie and Lucy (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

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On 10/6/2022 at 6:18 PM, SeaDawg said:

@rideandfly, we keep looking at this, too. We have 2x 105 ah deka/east penn agms in our elite, roughly 130 pounds. A single 100 ah battleborn would give us equivalent usable amp hours, and cut the weight significantly, (29 pounds?)

You would actually cut the weight by almost 100 pounds. 

Steve, Tali and the dogs: Reacher and Rocky plus our beloved Storm, Maggie and Lucy (all waiting at the Rainbow Bridge)

2008 Legacy Elite I - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #026 | 2014 Legacy Elite II - Outlaw Oliver, Hull #050 | 2022 Silverado High Country 3500HD SRW Diesel 4x4 

 

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7 minutes ago, ScubaRx said:

You would actually cut the weight by almost 100 pounds. 

Yes. I guess I didn't make that clear. 2 agms, roughly 130 pounds, total,  vs. a single battleborn 100 ah,  at roughly 30 pounds, would give us almost  the same usable amp hours.

Big weight reduction.  Virtually no change in usable amp hours.

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2008 Ram 1500 4 × 4

2008 Oliver Elite, Hull #12

 

 

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We recently replaced our AGM batteries with 3 100 AH Battleborn batteries. The Battelborns’ are internally heated, having a remote switch that turns the heating system on/off. We have the standard solar system from Oliver, with a Zamp system; we did replace the PD converter to a lithium compatible PD converter. We store our Oliver outside without a cover. We were anticipating adding some insulation to the battery compartment door, turning on the heater switch and letting the system take care of itself. Is this okay? My understanding is the Battelborn BMS will prevent any attempts at charging the batteries if they are too cold, and the heater will allow the batteries to charge when necessary. Energy usage/needs of the Oliver are minimal when simply parked, since we won’t be running the systems much in the winter.  

Kim and David Thompson Nomads' Nest 2018 LE2 #366 2018 Toyota Tundra, 4x4, 5.7L


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1 hour ago, thompsonkd said:

We were anticipating adding some insulation to the battery compartment door, turning on the heater switch and letting the system take care of itself.

Will your Ollie be connected to shore power?  The internal battery heaters consume power, so the batteries need a means of recharge to keep the heater working.

I recommend you ask Battleborn if, given your storage conditions, the "system" will "take care of itself."

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Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

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