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Balance beads?!


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Got a letter from OTT today stating that the balance beads in my tires may jam the valve cores, causing a loss of pressure. The envelope contained 5 new cores with screens and a $25 gift card for my troubles.

First, I had no idea there were balance beads in my tires. I don't recall ever seeing that in any of the literature. The first thing I did with our trailer after bringing it home was bring it to a tire shop to have metal stems installed and have all the tires balanced. I certainly would have told the shop if I knew there were beads in the tires. Now I wonder if the presence of the beads threw off the spin balance I got from the shop. The FAQs on one of the balancing beads websites says that they should not be used with wheel weights ("they will work against each other") and that they can't be correctly balanced by a spin balance machine. Is this why 2 of my wheels have been running unexplainably hot? Are the bearings being stressed by badly unbalanced wheels? Seems like I have to go back to the tire shop and either have them remove the weights they installed or have them unmount the tires, remove the beads, and rebalance the wheels again.

This is definitely something that should have been disclosed by OTT. Service ticket created. I don't think I should have to pay to have this addressed.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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I had one quite bad experience decades ago with the balancing powder. So I can’t realistically comment on if the bead type is or isn’t snake oil. However, if somebody put that stuff in any of my tires WITHOUT MY CONSENT OR KNOWLEDGE, I would be absolutely livid. Oliver owes you an explanation. For example how long have they been doing this and how many trailers are affected? Does it in any way affect the tire warranty (internal damage as the beads break down)?  Do my 2017 tires, which had no weights at delivery, have them???

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

For example how long have they been doing this and how many trailers are affected?

From a conversation I had with them on the subject. When there was a rash of valve core failures, Oliver looked into it and found out their supplier had been putting balance beads in their tires without them knowing it. Some of the smaller beads were getting stuck in the valve cores and holding them open causing rapid deflation. Oliver is contacting all that were affected and sending them new cores with a gift card to cover replacement. I seriously doubt they will make a statement as to how many were impacted. 

I know I would not release that information if I were them. Just one on one to those who were affected. As for the other questions, they all seem valid.

Brian

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Brian and Brandelyne

Paris, TN

2020 Ford F-250 Super Duty 7.3L V-8 (Gas), 10 Speed, FX4, Max Tow Package, Firestone Airbags

2023 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #TBD, Expected Delivery Date 3/08/2023

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8 minutes ago, Brian and Brandelyne said:

their supplier had been putting balance beads in their tires without them knowing it.

That seems odd. It would cost the supplier extra to do this. Not a lot, just a little for the beads and extra step, but still... big companies go to great lengths to save a few pennies like that. Can't believe they'd do it without billing Oliver extra. Unless...... According to the letter, the company is Lionhead. The same company that manufactures the rims. Could there be a flaw in the rims they were trying to mask with the beads? Wildly out of balance or something?

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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This should be posted under “safety bulletin” We have Cooper tires on our 2021 LE2 but have heard nothing about this. 

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2021 Dodge Ram 1500 

2021 Oliver Elite ll 

Hull #732 

Michigan 

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Wow, that pic reveals that the recommended tire pressure on an LE2 is 55 psi. Bravo, Oliver finally put it in writing somewhere. Has anyone seen this in an Owners Manual? Thanks for posting that Katjo!

John Davies

Spokane WA

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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24 minutes ago, John E Davies said:

Wow, that pic reveals that the recommended tire pressure on an LE2 is 55 psi. Bravo, Oliver finally put it in writing somewhere. Has anyone seen this in an Owners Manual? Thanks for posting that Katjo!

The 55 PSI recommendation is found in this 2021 Elite II Walkthrough video at 12:39.  It was published November 3, 2021:

 

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Hull #1291

Central Idaho

2022 Elite II

Tow Vehicle:  2019 Tundra Double Cab 4x4, 5.7L with tow package

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Oliver will take care of you. Submit a work ticket and follow up with a call. Oliver took excellent care of us regarding a wheel balancing issue I had while under warranty. I have had a stellar experience with Oliver warranty service. 
 

A side note, I had steel valve stems installed and was not happy with them at all and went right back to the rubber stem and have had zero issues. The rubber stems are flexible steel is not. Any road debris that hits the steel valve could likely cause a leak in the valve. Just another thought. 
 

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2020 OLEII - Hull #634   TV -2021 F 350 6.7 liter Diesel Lariat Ultimate “Tremor”

 

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37 minutes ago, Patriot said:

I had steel valve stems installed and was not happy with them at all and went right back to the rubber stem

The steel stems are for my TPMS sensors.

 

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Rivernerd said:

The 55 PSI recommendation is found in this 2021 Elite II Walkthrough video at 12:39.  It was published November 3, 2021:

Thanks. But it still isn’t in the 2022 Owners Manual or any of the older ones, they say to use the tire pressure placard. which indicated 80 psi for LT tires.

John Davies

Spokane WA

 

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"Mouse":  2017 Legacy Elite II NARV (Not An RV) Two Beds, Hull Number 218, See my HOW TO threads: https://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/john-e-davies-how-to-threads-and-tech-articles-links/

Tow Vehicle: 2013 Land Cruiser 200, 33" LT tires, airbags, Safari snorkel.

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2 hours ago, John E Davies said:

the recommended tire pressure on an LE2 is 55 psi

@John E Davies Oliver did put out a video on the tires and tire pressure and stated it was 55 psi. It seemed like the video was an update to previous information. I agree, that does not obviate the need to a written announcement.

Disregard...didn't see others had pointed that out.

Brian

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Brian and Brandelyne

Paris, TN

2020 Ford F-250 Super Duty 7.3L V-8 (Gas), 10 Speed, FX4, Max Tow Package, Firestone Airbags

2023 Oliver Elite II, Twin Bed, Hull #TBD, Expected Delivery Date 3/08/2023

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Some "concerned owner" should take the lead and pressure Oliver to provide formal clarification on tire pressure recommendations for both LEs, specific to model years and tires.  Based on the Bead Letter and Walkthrough video, it's apparent that there has been a change in tire type and size, beginning with the 2022 models. The 55 psi stated in the letter and video are specific to the 235/65R16C Commercial tire, as stated and shown.  Because this tire has a greater carrying capacity at 55 psi than the previous LT225/75R16 LRE Light Truck tire, the LT will require 63 psi In order to match its capacity.  It should also be pointed out that the tire designation LT235/65R16C stated in the bead letter is conflicting and incorrect.

Whoever is supplying the tire and wheel assemblies should also be providing Oliver with recommendations based on the application.  If Oliver is in fact going to change the original placard pressures, across the board without regard for tire type and size as the video implies, they need to put it in a letter and provide placard addendums to every current owner. Otherwise,  this topic will never end and some misinformed owner could get in trouble. Then it actually will become a recall.

Hopefully this debacle will end with the adoption of ST tires.

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I've asked OTT for a recommended course of action. They recommend I remove the beads. That'll cost me $150 to unmount, remove the beads, and rebalance 5 tires. And that's assuming I remove the wheels myself and bring them to the shop.

OTOH, the tire shop owner recommends I simply remove the external weights they applied when they did the spin balance and let the beads do their thing. (There's a whole big explanation of why spin balancing doesn't work with beads in a tire.)

Before I do anything I've asked OTT to verify that there definitely are beads in my tires. I've also contacted a bead manufacturer to ask their advice in this situation.

Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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Regarding the balance beads and potential issues expressed, smart money is to remove the beads. Given that the tire/wheel supplier, apparently Lionshead, didn't know enough to install the filtered valve cores, and that there are recommendations against even using beads in trailer tires of this size range, I couldn't be assured much of anything was done correctly.

Since the metal valve stem installer should only have broken the outer tire beads for access to replace the stems, they could easily have missed detecting the beads. I would expect the balancing machine to produce results so obvious that they would redflag a problem however  Inspecting the inner rim areas for an excess amount of weight, and/or unusual distribution of weights, should provide clues but I would be almost certain there were beads added to your tires.

Just removing the external weights still leaves the unknown as to whether the beads could or would perform an acceptable balance.  It's not implausible that they were incorrectly installed to start with, or that an indeterminable amount could have fallen out during the valve stem installation. And then, there's always going to be their questionable performance. Best to start over with a clean slate and go with a proven solution. The issue of restitution from Oliver should come later.

It will be interesting to see if the beads caused enough imbalance to generate your reported heat difference.

 

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55 minutes ago, bhncb said:

Inspecting the inner rim areas for an excess amount of weight

Well, there are a lot of stick on weights located in one area of the rim just inside the spokes. Pretty much the same on all 4 tires. PXL_20221020_230018108.thumb.jpg.6543fd3b6b068e3293f86e0bd6d981e3.jpg

Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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1 hour ago, Steph and Dud B said:

Well, there are a lot of stick on weights located in one area of the rim just inside the spokes. Pretty much the same on all 4 tires. PXL_20221020_230018108.thumb.jpg.6543fd3b6b068e3293f86e0bd6d981e3.jpg

Each stick-on segment is 1/4 ounce so the sum of the seven I can see is is not an inordinate amount to add as long as it is directly opposite the valve stem. If there is also a nearly equal amount of clip-on weight on the inner lip of the wheel adjacent to these, or no weight at all, I’d be suspicious and start investigating.

About the picture: Looking just above  the tire sidewall, has the rim really been that scared up or is it just dirt?

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26 minutes ago, bhncb said:

is it just dirt?

Just dirt. The flash and the areas I touched really make it stand out. She needs a bath, but first things first.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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I received a reply from the mfg of the beads:

"Thank you for reaching out! I would be glad to help. Lionshead, is an OE account for us, so many of the tire and wheels they produce do come with Counteract inside the tires already, so there is no need for a traditional spin balance. You can remove the wheel weights and continue on, the beads will balance out the wheel tire and entire assembly on the fly."

Short-term, since the trailer is currently in its winter storage position, that's my plan. I'll remove the external weights and that'll return the trailer to the way OTT handed it to me. I'll run one trip with it that way and see if the temperature issues change at all. Then, next summer, when I have some time, I'll run it down to the tire shop again to remove the beads and rebalance all the tires.

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Stephanie and Dudley from CT.  2022 LE2, Hull #1150: Eggcelsior.

Tow vehicle: 2016 GMC Sierra 6.0 gas dually 4x4.

Our Oliver journey: Steph and Dud B's RV Screed

Where we've been RVing since 1999:

ALAZCACOCTDEFLGAIDILINIAKYLAMDMAMIMNMSMOMTNENVNHNMNYNCNDOHOKORPASCSDTNTXUTVTVAWAWVWIWYmed.jpg.e6391b9064a3f8f0951751f985664135.jpg

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On 10/20/2022 at 10:48 AM, Steph and Dud B said:

The steel stems are for my TPMS sensors.

 

I use TST TPMS and use rubber valve stems with zero issues. 👍🏻 Roll with whatever works best for your application. 😊

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0EED8E3B-D84E-4F0D-B52F-5E473FD3F2B4.jpeg.594e912d889377ce9a64a2f5c88ade83.jpeg

2020 OLEII - Hull #634   TV -2021 F 350 6.7 liter Diesel Lariat Ultimate “Tremor”

 

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