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Today is our two year anniversary with Hull #85 and over 31K miles and countless memories. We couldn't be happier.

I apologize in advance for the wordiness of this post. This has a chance of being my swan song here on this forum so I'll just let it go. This is a good thread and I'm glad John, a new owner started it. It seems Reed and Karen do have a serious problem that seems related to their build, but also from reading through this forum a good chance exists that Oliver will figure it out and help them correct it. I don't believe this thread or ones similar should "scare" a prospective buyer even a newbie to the scene such as myself. What should scare anyone is the thought of of purchasing any RV and believing (or being told) like most modern automobiles or trucks, they are pretty much trouble free and require little to no maintenance or repair. Nonsense. I have been diligently researching this lifestyle for the last 2 years. Reading, going to shows, renting Cruise Americas and talking to owners in campgrounds and at events. They ALL have issues. Every bleepin one of them. It is common in the industry. Cars and trucks don't have complex electrical, plumbing, water heaters, inverters, solar controllers. Neither do most smaller boats (under 26') Has anyone priced new boats as of late? 20' Boston Whaler over 100K! As toys go, and these things are toys although some folks want them to perform like homes, there is a lot of stuff crammed into them. That plus the fact that they are hand built, are pulled or driven all over creation lends itself to problems that all brands experience, albeit some more than others. My brother paid almost $2 million for a custom Prevost Luxury Coach conversion. It had problems/issues, 1 of them 12 grand worth on a major component just out of warranty. My neighbors 2 doors down downsized from an older Tiffany MH to a new Jayco TT that they paid under 15k for. Guess what? It has issues and has been to the dealer 3x and most is worked out with some other things fixed by him. Oliver is no different. What sets them apart from the consumer grade pack is cabin/body/frame design, and their commitment to customer satisfaction. But even they can lay the occasional bad egg. It is a chance any of us take buying any RV. Being connected to a company and/or dealership that takes into course of their business warranty work and a strong willingness to satisfy the costumer goes a lot longer in this RV world that waiting for the perfect unit to hit the streets. We are leaning towards the Airstream FC 25FB Twin over the Oliver not because we think one is better built than the other but for our needs, camping plans and style, and preference. Also right in our backyard, 40 minutes up the GSP (although they plan to relocate to a new facility 20 minutes further west within 2 years) is one of the largest AS dealerships in North America. This is a family owned and operated dealership for over 15 years maintaining very large selections of AS trailers. We have visited them twice, have researched their reputation 6 ways to Sunday, and almost everyone who has done business with them, raves about their commitment to customer satisfaction. I know personally 4 owners who have bought and service their trailers there 2 of them second time buyers 1 of them 3 times! Our last trip there we met a couple from VA. that were originally from NJ. They are on their 2nd AS in almost 12 years and have traversed the continent. They were getting tires changed and we spoke for a good time and they have nothing but great things to say about this dealership, Airsrteams they have owned, and the problems that come up. Their experience taught them that it takes a full season of good use, to get the bugs worked out. They are glad to be only 5 hrs away and always have there rig serviced here bypassing several closer dealerships. I like the idea of having a responsive dealership close to where I live. Although Oliver has a record of getting repair work done for customers at general RV dealerships nationwide, what happens if you encounter an issue unique to Oliver's design that a general facility cannot or will not handle? A trip to TN to get it fixed is what I can see. In summation I believe that one first finds something that truly fits their own style and preference. Out of the 2 or more 'brands' for lack of a better word, make the decision based on economics and other less tangible but very important aspects like service/repair availability and manufacturer/dealer reputation. Because all TT's, Fivers, and MH's will need it now and then. Familiarize yourself with your specific unit, be attentive to maintenance especially PM, and go forth and have fun.

Problems of this sort are inevitable in manufacturing. If a business has a good idea, or a good product, implementation becomes the issue. Profit depends on production, but production must meet quality standards. Quality standards slow production, but eliminate future problems such as reputation and warrantee issues. Behind the scene, they must improve the workmanship and the procedures. Find ways to standardize. Predict human use and emotional response to their design. The car industry is a good example to look at. To Oliver's credit, they seem to be genuinely interested and responsive to their customers. They absolutely stand behind their trailers. Without that, they would fail in short order. Managers are driven by pressure from above to get things done, but take the hit when problems arrive. Good managers understand the production staff and the hands on work. They can balance the pressure to meet unrealistic schedules with the realities of quality work. Poor managers just try to whip the troops and get product out the door. If anything, I see there are few engineers involved here. Mechanical stresses, electrical loads and practical human use patterns are, maybe, just dealt with by "what do we do with this?", on the production floor. The trailers are slowly evolving as driven by cost and a gradual understanding increase in seeing what is being ordered. Without getting too critical, remember, I like mine and I'm glad to have it, I can see room for improvement in some areas. The electrical system is one, which would ease production issues, ease changes in orders, ease service and be more reliable. I have to do some upgrades, where I can, on mine. They seem to have upgraded their wheels now and I'm glad. (I already did mine). There are a couple of potential issues with the older style, so I'm glad Oliver implemented an upgrade. I also consider the heavy duty greasable suspension upgrade to be important, (not the E Z Flex) it should be standard equipment in my opinion. Even though it would add a few dollars to the production cost, it would save rebuilding the system later and make the trailers tow better longer. Remember, these are advertised as "Legacy" trailers. I don't see any of the issues they are having caused by a "cost before quality" attitude. If anything they go out of their way to build the best they know how to. Then they improve as they need to, and they guarantee their work. I don't want to pile on and beat them up in any way. And again, I really like mine. The water tanks are designed and installed in such a way that they will always have some character. Very low profile and long. But they also give excellent ground clearance and freeze protection. The underside of an Oliver is better than any other trailer I have seen. No hanging down pipes. Great design. Looking forward to the water tank resolution.

Another problem that may fall into the "quality control" category is an apparent lack of caring on the production floor in the mechanical area. The problem with the incorrect drawer screws that were stripped out during installation and the stainless steel bumper bolt that was cross treaded and powered all the way on with a power tool. These show a lack of skill and a lack of caring. The water tank problems may be something similar, since all units have the same design, but a few don't work well. Oliver has a reputation problem with the interior, with customer pictures posted of chaos inside. Drawers and contents strewn. Cabinets open. It's amazing how much damage a low level employee can do. Poor employees can be very damaging to a company's reputation. That and a lack of proper oversight may be the real problem here. People cancelling orders may be overkill, but when someone spends this much for something, and they believe it to be the best there is, and then poor workmanship shows up, it's easy to feel taken advantage of. Oliver should probably stop production for a few days, review the recent problems and why they happened. Take a look at all production methods, and make it clear that they expect good workmanship and common sense from the workers. Review the tools used and how they are used. Then it becomes the managers problem to properly oversee production and attitude or aptitude. Quality is far more important than quantity. How many sales have been lost because they used the wrong length of wood screw in the drawer slides or stripped some out? Who should have known better or cared more? Oliver is in the throws of growing. This process is difficult and requires a lot of working capital. They are having to meet a big demand and refine their design. Solving mechanical issues, quality control and a myriad of design issues related to electrical, mechanical and owner operation. They are still small, but trying to get bigger and some of the things they do are still what they did in the beginning. Many things look like they just decided to wing it or leave it up to someone that really didn't know what to do. I applaud them for being creative and doing the most impressive glass work I've ever seen, but the behind the scenes work has to he right too. Some of the comments I've read by new buyers and prospective buyers reveal an intolerant and impatient attitude that can only be fixed by eliminating the complaints. Of course, some of the complaints are totally valid and should never have happened, but others are minor and still scared some new buyers. Also, some of us don't mind working on things and tinkering, but many can not do this and don't want to. Many folks become indignant if they can detect something is different than they expected. I deal with this attitude too in my business. The best thing to do is do your best, own the mistakes, and have a good working relationship with your customers. Word of mouth can make you or break you. I'm thrilled with mine. Elite 2 hull number 92. But it is by no means perfect and I can't expect it to be. But it is very, very nice and worthy of staying in the family for generations. That is, with my patience and some tinkering.

I'm usually not a fan of Black and Decker products, but this one is an exception. Much better small vac than anything else I've tried. Great suction and a battery that lasts more than long enough to clean the trailer a few times before needing recharge.

Reed, when trying to do those​ photos my trick is to do video, review, pause, screen capture, it's not like your trying to print 16x20s. What I don't understand is the need to side extract the water. You mention installing a pick up tube, why Oliver doesn't just install one in that top corner, cut a 35°angle on the end and insert it until it hits the bottom, they can then put a 90° where it exits the tank, there is plenty of clearance above the tank at this location. This is a power draw system, not a gravity feed, so there is no reason to try to get it from it's lowest point and as you demonstrate unless you can get the tongue up over your head and shake it out your never going to gravity drain the tank for winterizing.

I've got all the parts and am ready to move my TV too. Great mod and not too hard. John, you can find it under modifications. Here it is: http://olivertraveltrailers.com/topic/tv-relocation/ The kit is a "Mount-it!" TV Ceiling mount Model number MI-4211/CM211

Most owners will run into a situation where they need to repair a broken wire or faulty circuit, or want to add a completely new one, for a pantry light, a backup camera or perhaps a charging port. Being able to make electrical connections in a safe and secure way is critical. If you understand the fundamentals, it is easy to select the correct tools and supplies to do the job the right way. This is a fine reference for low voltage automotive wiring ..... It is NOT AT ALL appropriate for 120 volt ac residential type wiring. I selected Reader View on my iPad, which neatens up the formatting and removes ads, then saved it as a pdf. http://www.musclecardiy.com/automotive-wiring/fundamentals-of-automotive-electrical-connections-and-connectors/ This applies to homebuilt aircraft, but it does provide some good insight into what works and what doesn't I hope this proves useful. John Davies Spokane WA

The fresh water tank design has been a issue for me from the start. I posted something about it a long time ago but it didn't get much traction. I assumed because most folks must use hookups and are not boondocking. AFAIK, the tanks come from the factory with the inflow and outflow bungs already glued to the tank. You can see from the pic that as soon as the water level reaches the top of the lower outflow tube, the water pump will start sucking air and loose prime. I talked to Oliver about installing a suction tube at that lower connection that could be bent down to reach the bottom of the tank, but that didn't seem to interest them. To do the work now, I need to pull the hot water tank to get access (I have the smaller Elite), there is just no room to work. It would be so easy to do before hand at the factory, I guess that has been the most frustrating part for me. Now, like everyone else I have to raise the front of the trailer. Not so huge a deal, but you do need to raise it up quite a bit to get at most of your water, which makes being in the trailer not so pleasant. Like Reed, I just have to fill it more than I would like to. Also, the fact that it is hard, if even possible to completely drain the FWT, I myself would not put RV antifreeze in there. Maybe I worry too much, but I just don't want any of that in water I may be drinking. If Oliver ever does decide to change the design, I may take another trip back for the upgrade. Anxious to see what you come up with Reed. I drilled out a brass compression fitting that would screw in to the bung so a 1/2 copper tube could just slide through. I was going to bend the tube down a bit so it would rest on the bottom of the tank. But being a relative newbie at this, and not wanting to open a can of worms, and with the very difficult access problem, I abandoned the project. Dave

In my opinion, the most important part of John's post is contained in his first paragraph. "Being able to make electrical connections in a safe and secure way is critical. If you understand the fundamentals...". If one chooses to repair or add or modify virtually any system (to include the electrical system) a basic understanding of the fundamentals of how these systems work in critical in order to be safe. Not only should the connections be safe and secure, but, these connections should also be made in a manner that is safe and secure with regards to the entire system (i.e. don't overload circuits or tape into circuits that are voltage critical, or ...). In other words, if you do not understand electrical fundamentals and have at least a basic understanding of how the electric system you are working on is constructed, ask for help! It is simply not safe for both you and the systems you are working on to do otherwise. Bill

OK, I'm pulling the water tank fix over here to keep everything together. I've talked to Jason and they are looking into it on their end, and I'm going to start talking with them about a permanent fix. I have it worked out, I just need to get started. So you can see here where the water level is by the dark line on the side oif the tank. This is at 38% with the trailer perfectly leveled all the way around. Look center top of the pic, the tank is on the right. [attachment file=57538] Being, we were just filling the tank, we had our hands full... Karen held the flashlight and one end of the hook pole to hold the vent hose over, while I had the phone in hand for this pic, way down inside, while pushing the bottom of the hook pole into place and trying to get a good shot... So she could say, Smile :) ... We didn't have an extra hand to move the electrical cable out of the way to show the level in this next pic, but you can figure it out from the other. What it does show is where the water enters and exits the tank along with the level meter. Notice the water level if you can :) I will get a better pic in a few days. Threading and putting in a pic up tube will be easy, it's just getting everything out of the way to get to that fitting will take a bit of work. Also notice the water level in relation to the water pipe. Reed [attachment file=57541] So the disappearing post issue happens on the last post of a page... Take 3

I would never suggest that you have to "get" something the way I might, and I'm not upset. Not claiming I have some inside information. Just saying that the towing experience with a diesel is something you may not be able to decide on paper. This is because of the driving character. That character is noticed through driving them while towing. Many don't have experience with them and therefore don't appreciate the advantages they offer. So if it's just monetary savings on paper, that value is lost and diesels look like a bad investment. I agree with your thoughts on the compromises and the various models to suit different uses. Does your spreadsheet show those compromises? It may not pan out to wait 8 years for the breakeven on cost. Who knows what fuel will cost, the reliability of current models, etc. It's been the case that a number of engine models have had serious problems over the last eight years, for instance. So those calcs, eight years ago, could have led to disappointment. That is where brand loyalty can adversely affect the decision, and again, it may not show up on paper. Nobody knows how that will play out in the future. My personal preference is to spend more up front and pay less as I go. Just my own method. Your mileage may vary.

Well, whenever anyone tells me that I just don't 'get' something, what I usually 'get' is that they're upset that I'm not making the same choice that they did. If I wanted the best towing machine, I'd get a ¾ or 1 ton diesel pickup. If I wanted the best reliability, I'd get a Toyota. If I wanted the best every day driver, then I'd buy a new BMW. If I wanted the best off road vehicle, I'd have a Jeep. Etc. It's all about what compromise among those things and others works best for you. Gas mileage and range aren't the only factors, they're just the two that I'm talking about above. And if you want an objective look at value from that standpoint, you've got to use math. When just looking at pickups, we made our choice of Ford for numerous reasons well over a year ago. There are pros and cons for all the makes, but overall we preferred the Fords.

Using a spreadsheet to compare diesel to gas powered vehicles really misses the point. It's true that diesels cost more to buy and service. And the new ones have much more complicated emissions equipment, but the appeal is the lower cost to drive on trips and, this is the big one, they tow much better. I can't imagine justifying a diesel with a projected breakeven of 8 years out. Way too many variables. I'm very glad I paid the extra for my Ram diesel, but it mainly shows up in towing ability and cost savings on fuel while on trips. The spreadsheet says nothing about the ability of the vehicle and the ease and pleasure of using it while towing. You might also have some other needs for a truck that could play into the decision. The point is, you either get what a diesel is, or you don't and it doesn't matter. If you've never had the pleasure of towing with one, it's hard to factor in the added initial cost as an argument for buying one. Then, you should also look at the reliability of some models. This is very important and not mentioned in your analysis. Mainly with diesels, but gas engines too. And it might lead to looking at pickup brands other than Ford.

The shaking out of rugs and sweeping routine works well for a while for us, but after a little time, the nooks and crannies seem to need a little extra. I thought about the Dyson, but after looking at reviews, I figured I can burn up three of these before I reach the Dyson price point. And it had the first decent review of a Black and Decker product I've seen in a really long time, so gave it a shot. Like Raspy, I have almost always regretted a B&D purchase, but so far so good with this one. ( knock on fiberglass)

Our forums have been such a great success for our 17' owners that we are looking forward to adding new topic matter for the 22'er as it is seen more and more out on the highways of North America. So, 22' owners don't be bashful ! Jump right on in here and tell us about your experiences ! Our forums moderators Steve and Tali, posting as SCUBARX, have a new 22'er on the way so we are looking forward to hearing from them. Their past posts about mods and so forth have been a pleasure for our readers, as well as helpful to info seekers. As you may suspect, our forums may well become more and more of a information database than a chat room for members. Our forums have been changing ever since the FACEBOOK OLIVER TRAVEL TRAILERS page became ever so popular. Here is a link to the FACEBOOK GROUP: https://www.facebook.com/groups/306440109482944/ if you haven't joined the group yet, just go to the link and send a join request. We will be glad to have you there ! Oliver ownership not required.

Issue: A/C Fan runs when mode set to furnace Models Impacted: Dometic Penguin II equipped Information: The on-board thermostat communicates with the Dometic Penguin II A/C unit and the A/C unit then communicates with the Furnace. When the mode is set to Furnace the A/C fan should not run if set to AUTO. If the fan speed is set to LOW or HIGH, this will cause the A/C unit fan to run with the Furnace as a means to distribute the inside air flow. If you are experiencing this issue, please ensure that the fan speed on the A/C is set to AUTO. Resolution: Normal Operation *If the A/C fan runs when set to Auto and mode is set to Furnace, then another issue exists and the Dometic A/C unit should be inspected by a Dometic certified technician.

I've had a AAA membership for many, many years. I have rarely used AAA's roadside assistance, but when I have, I appreciated it. I received a packet from Good Sam for roadside assistance for my 2016 Elite II. Introductory price of $69.95. After that, it's $117/year. Two big benefits are unlimited distance towing to a repair facility and flat tire service--they come and change tire and help you locate a replacement. Have you purchased this service? if so, please share your analysis. If you know about it and have decided not to purchase, share you thoughts as well.

Marc, welcome to the group! You'll find several different opinions on gas grills. I have a Weber Q1000 and several others also have a Weber Q series grill. They don't work directly off a propane quick connect out of the box. It takes about 10 minutes to modify it to work, you have to remove the regulator and put on a quick connect, parts are easy to find. This was last month in Joshua Tree NP, California - got the Weber fired up for breakfast. Mike

Don Thompson, My brother has used this for several years and enjoys discounts he gets with it. Here you can join for $27.00 found this on the Oliver site.http://www.goodsamclub.com/defaultc.aspx

Don, We did the same analysis that you are going through a couple of months ago. We too have rarely used the AAA service, but, three years ago I had a wheel failure in Hays, KS - right on Interstate 70 heading east. I was only one mile from the center of Hays and called AAA. Since they didn't have any "relationship" with any tow operator in Hays, they said that I would need to arrange towing personally and then submitt receipts for the (up to) $75 that they would pay for a tow. Thank goodness a Highway Patrol officer stopped since he had the name and number of a towing business. I don't consider Hays, KS as a small town and while it is in the middle of Kansas, it is right on the Interstate. Needless to say, I was not happy. Certainly the Good Sam Club assistance might not be any better, but, I hope that I will never have to find this out. However, at least I know that the reimbursement will be for a higher amount. Hope this helps you with your decision - good luck. Bill