Battery depletion rate 3% or more per day... with EVERYTHING off?

[Geronimo John]

11 hours ago, Ronbrink said:

@Geronimo John, I failed to emphasize that the Cerbo can be set to disable charging of my LiFePO4s at low temperatures, thus eliminating any concerns of damage during freezing conditions. The SOC can also be set to maintain a partial charge (40-60% range) for LFPs being stored for more than a month.

Wow, that's really nice!  The processor and display:

Would be really handy for the full timers and especially the Tech Inclined owners.  Certainly can provide a great visual of what's happening in our various systems.  

But for me and Crazy Horse, we get by with my slide rule and his solar powered adding machine.  I just don't think I would trust it for 8 or 9 months alone though.  Especially with all that AI running amuck now days.  Lord only knows where it would take Ollie off to up there in the High Country of Oklahoma.

Oh wow, I'm back.   Ok, seriously now, I would not at all be surprised that in the near future OTT will be looking for advice on making this great Victron suite an option on new OTT's.  It is bound to happen.  

Meanwhile, we'll just poke along.  Anybody have some slide rule wax?  After 60 years it's getting a bit sticky.  Numbers seem to be smaller than before too!

Oh slipped back to the other side. Sorry about that!  

Great system for sure.  

[Dave and Kimberly]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:57 AM, Geronimo John said:

 

Ok we have now almost completely killed all the possible loads ... except:

• There is a fuse panel in the attic.  Hopefully you got those as well.
• Would pull the smoke  and the CO2/Propane detectors out if you can.  I think the CO2/Propane may be hard wired if so, leave it.
• A wild card:  Have you had any problems with the trailer lights being on when they should be off? If so, spray out the plug with CRC brake cleaner.  (Yea this is a very small leakage if the plug is wet and dirty.
• With a nod to Ronbrink, do you have a Xantrex?  (Trip it's circuit protection)  1 amp X 24 hours = 24 amp hours.  360 AH system divided by 24 ah/day = 15 days to dead battery.  

If the battery charge is still declining as before, Recharge and disconnect the one of the 4/0 wires to isolate the batteries.  If they sink out, then you know it's them.  

In retrospect this likely would have been a better starting point as suggested by Topgun2 and JD.  But just think of all you have learned in this process!  🙂  😞

 

   Apologize to those trying to help... I'm reading and trying as many of the suggestions as possible, but the nature of it takes time to ascertain what the results are.

Geronimo John-  I'm not familiar with another fuse panel in the attic?  Do you mean the rear storage space (above rear window) where the EMS, TV antennae on/off area?  Our Ollie is a 2022 if that matters.

I've resisted turning off the batteries.   I don't think the failure is with them and I've also shied away from disconnecting power to the CO2 and/or fuse panel (now all red lights) because I don't think those little lights would be a significant draw.    In addition, I've went out to the trailer at night to see if there are any lights on anywhere; outside basement storage area, inside, outside, trailer running lights, etc.  Nothing.   My 7-pin connector is housed safely out of rain in holder made for it.

   My Xantrex inverter is turned off at the control panel.   And it's quiet as a church mouse.   No fan, no humming, nothing.  Exactly how do you "trip it's circuit protection"?   To be honest... I'm concerned about turning off some of these things because it would take me down another electrical rabbit hole when I try to power them up.   (worried about sequence of turning inverter and batteries back on and damaging something???) 

[topgun2]

3 minutes ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

Geronimo John-  I'm not familiar with another fuse panel in the attic?  Do you mean the rear storage space (above rear window) where the EMS, TV antennae on/off area?  Our Ollie is a 2022 if that matters.

Apologies for jumping in here - but - in the event GJ is out surfing or something, YES, that storage area is referred to as the "Attic".

With regards to the CO detector - if you look under the dinette seat and follow the wires that are at the back of the detector you will come to an "inline" fuse.  You can simply remove this fuse (make sure that you note this someplace so that you don't forget to replace this fuse when you are done "testing").  Most of these inline fuses are simple to remove - push towards the middle and turn each end in the opposite direction.  This should make it come apart and the fuse simply falls out at that point.  To replace the fuse just reverse the action - put the fuse back in place and twist the two halves back together as you push the two halves of the holder towards each other.

Bill

[John Dorrer]

6 hours ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

   Apologize to those trying to help... I'm reading and trying as many of the suggestions as possible, but the nature of it takes time to ascertain what the results are.

Geronimo John-  I'm not familiar with another fuse panel in the attic?  Do you mean the rear storage space (above rear window) where the EMS, TV antennae on/off area?  Our Ollie is a 2022 if that matters.

I've resisted turning off the batteries.   I don't think the failure is with them and I've also shied away from disconnecting power to the CO2 and/or fuse panel (now all red lights) because I don't think those little lights would be a significant draw.    In addition, I've went out to the trailer at night to see if there are any lights on anywhere; outside basement storage area, inside, outside, trailer running lights, etc.  Nothing.   My 7-pin connector is housed safely out of rain in holder made for it.

   My Xantrex inverter is turned off at the control panel.   And it's quiet as a church mouse.   No fan, no humming, nothing.  Exactly how do you "trip it's circuit protection"?   To be honest... I'm concerned about turning off some of these things because it would take me down another electrical rabbit hole when I try to power them up.   (worried about sequence of turning inverter and batteries back on and damaging something???) 

The inverter breaker is under the street side bed, at the front (battery box wall).

 

The sequence is as follows:

Turn off solar. Trip the inverter breaker, then turn off your Lithium batteries. To turn back on reverse order. You don't want to put loads on the inverter by turning a battery off or on, one at a time with the inverter on. Again,

1. Turn off solar

2. Turn off inverter at breaker

3. Turn off batteries

This information was provided by Oliver, and confirmed by Lithonics. Our winter storage needed a conversation with Lithonics.

 

Edited June 9 by John Dorrer
Additional Info

[Stevon]

You don’t need to disconnect any cables, or do anything complicated. Your  Lithionics batteries have an on/off switch on them (Push button on the top). For storage just draw them down to 50% and turn them off. 

[Dave and Kimberly]

15 hours ago, Stevon said:

You don’t need to disconnect any cables, or do anything complicated. Your  Lithionics batteries have an on/off switch on them (Push button on the top). For storage just draw them down to 50% and turn them off. 

    So the concern I have, that while it sounds simple to just turn off batteries... it seems in a direct contradiction to what Oliver and Lithionics says? (see John Dorrer post above) I vaguely remember something about the inverter being on with the batteries turned off... and then turning on the batteries (one by one) and there was some sort of possibility of a surge doing damage?   Maybe someone can speak more informed about this?

   STATUS update:  Friday at 12pm...after charging batteries were at 100%.   At the moment, three days later batteries are at 98%.  A more reasonable loss level.   Everything is off, all the 12 volt fuses are pulled and all the breakers are turned off (under the dinette table).   I'm going to replace those fuses/turn on breakers.... and continue my search for "what is consuming electric" when everything appears to be OFF?

Edited June 10 by Dave and Kimberly

[Geronimo John]

On 6/9/2024 at 2:32 AM, Dave and Kimberly said:

Geronimo John-  I'm not familiar with another fuse panel in the attic?  Do you mean the rear storage space (above rear window) where the EMS, TV antennae on/off area?  Our Ollie is a 2022 if that matters.

yes.  Thanks TopGun2!   You were close.  Was out flying my paraglider.

Edited June 10 by Geronimo John

[Geronimo John]

4 hours ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

   STATUS update:  Friday at 12pm...after charging batteries were at 100%.   At the moment, three days later batteries are at 98%.  A more reasonable loss level.   Everything is off, all the 12 volt fuses are pulled and all the breakers are turned off (under the dinette table).   I'm going to replace those fuses/turn on breakers.... and continue my search for "what is consuming electric" when everything appears to be OFF?

Good news.  Its not likely your batteries.  Write down this a a 100% SOC with X amp draw.  Then start powering up the individual fuses, letting things stabilize a minute or so and record the event's data.  By having the fuse size, what it serves and the change in amp draw, we can all look at the data with you.  Even if you run across a monster draw, continue the process for all fuses and circuit breakers with everything off.  This will become a reference for many down the road for sure.

[Boudicca908]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:37 PM, Dave and Kimberly said:

I even suspected that the "battery heater blanket" that Oliver installs could be malfunctioning... even though it's obviously not below freezing... but the battery BMS is showing 78 degrees... which is about ambient air temp here in Ohio... so I don't think that's the problem either

Last year, I found that the toggle switch on my lithium battery blanket was faulty — it would easily trip to “ON” with the slightest bump — meaning any road vibration could trip to ON position. It didn’t seem to trip to the OFF position . I asked OTT to service, when I passed through at the end of my trip last fall. 

[Dave and Kimberly]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:35 PM, Boudicca908 said:

Last year, I found that the toggle switch on my lithium battery blanket was faulty — it would easily trip to “ON” with the slightest bump — meaning any road vibration could trip to ON position. It didn’t seem to trip to the OFF position . I asked OTT to service, when I passed through at the end of my trip last fall. 

So... other than the Red light, how did you know the battery blanket was "on".   My switch toggles from on to off and through out it has been in the off mode.

[Dave and Kimberly]

On 6/10/2024 at 4:28 PM, Geronimo John said:

Good news.  Its not likely your batteries.  Write down this a a 100% SOC with X amp draw.  Then start powering up the individual fuses, letting things stabilize a minute or so and record the event's data.  By having the fuse size, what it serves and the change in amp draw, we can all look at the data with you.  Even if you run across a monster draw, continue the process for all fuses and circuit breakers with everything off.  This will become a reference for many down the road for sure.

GJ... Last week I pulled all of the fuses... and and turned off every breaker and of course made sure that nothing was running, no sound, no fans, no lights, etc..   Everything "appears" off.   The Lithionics app is the only data I have, and it's not showing any "current consumption"... and yet that same app (Sunday to Wednesday) has shows SOC has went from 80% to 77%.   Clearly, electricity is being siphoned off somehow?

   We will use the camper this next week... but once we are home...  I'm almost to the point of turning off the inverter and batteries to see if this stops the drain.  Of course then the only way to get a status update would be to turn the batteries back on.

[Geronimo John]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:37 PM, topgun2 said:

Why not simply remove the main negative battery cable from the batteries and see what happens?

Looks like you are back to what TopGun2 suggested.

You would want to let the test run for several days, starting with a full SOC at the beginning.  True your SOC indicator reading would no longer be valid, but at least you could get a voltage delta from the terminals.  It should be VERY close to .1V or so.  If it is higher, then using a Litho chart will let you wag the SOC change.  Not real accurate, but if the voltages effectively do not change, then you know for sure it is not battery internal energy consumption to heat.

GJ

Edited June 19 by Geronimo John

[Ronbrink]

On 6/4/2024 at 8:48 AM, Ronbrink said:

I would have to make a weekly trip to the storage facility to activate the ‘initial’ charging aspect of the Xantrex to bring my battery bank up; this involved tripping the 30A main breaker Off then On again. Upon researching, I learned that the Xantrex has a 1A draw even when turned Off.

I would like to make a correction to my above statement; an inverter will draw 1A if left On with no load and zero draw when Off. 

 

On 6/4/2024 at 11:26 AM, jd1923 said:

I'm getting only -0.25A with the Xantrex 2000 OFF and breaker ON

I recently realized I did not have my inverter in the Off position at both the Xantrex and wall-mounted remote. The VictronConnect app now shows -0.24A Current, which is in line with your results. 

[Dave and Kimberly]

Ron... how exactly do you turn the "inverter" off ?    You mention two locations, one of which is the wall mount.   Thats the only place I've ever turned it on/off.   Where is the second place?  Is it the breaker (under dinette)?   I have only recently tested that location as well.  SO off on the remote and off at the breaker panel under the dinette.

   Our 2022 Ollie has the 3000 watt inverter but I'm guessing all things considered both are the same.

   I should mention that everything works perfectly fine when we are using the camper and this is only a problem when home and NOT USING the camper.   

[topgun2]

2 hours ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

 I should mention that everything works perfectly fine when we are using the camper and this is only a problem when home and NOT USING the camper. 

OK then - the obvious answer is that you should be on the road.  Problem solved!😇

Bill

[Ronbrink]

15 hours ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

Ron... how exactly do you turn the "inverter" off ?    You mention two locations, one of which is the wall mount.   Thats the only place I've ever turned it on/off.   Where is the second place? 

There is also a control panel with an On/Off button on the face of my Xantrex 2000. The wall-mounted remote is used to control power to the unit and the one on the Xantrex is kept in the Off position. 

[Geronimo John]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:15 AM, Dave and Kimberly said:

So... other than the Red light, how did you know the battery blanket was "on".

I would check the amp draw from the batteries when toggling the heaters on/off..  Use clamp on amp meter, 712 Smart or what ever gizzmo we have on the newer Ollies. 

[Dave and Kimberly]

GJ... the "red light" on the battery blanket switch is all I am going by.  And I agree that the true test is to measure any draw going to that blanket independent of the red light.  While I have the electrical tester... it's a case of having a tool... but not absolutely certain how to use it to it's potential.  🙂  I have a neighbor that might be able to show me if can get his attention long enough to teach me some basics.

    FYI:  We came home from a short trip... and it's sitting out there, now with the ceiling fan on about 50%.... running 24/7 and the battery is staying at 99 or 100% all the time????  Of course the solar panels are keeping up with the drain.

[MAX Burner]

3 hours ago, Dave and Kimberly said:

FYI:  We came home from a short trip... and it's sitting out there, now with the ceiling fan on about 50%.... running 24/7 and the battery is staying at 99 or 100% all the time????  Of course the solar panels are keeping up with the drain.

That sound perfectly normal for being outside...

[John Dorrer]

Dave,

If the trailer is going to be in storage warehouse for over 3 weeks I plug it in and leave it.

 

Less than 3 weeks I just leave it unplugged. When would go get it and pull up the Lithonics app, the State of Charge was all over the place for each battery. 95%, 87%, and 83%. I reached out to Oliver and Mike said if the warehouse Bay doors are open the panels will pick up a little and suggested, I turn off the solar.

Next time I turned off the solar the battery State of Charge was close between the 3 batteries. This stuff is way over my pay grade.

[Tideline77]

I read this entire thread twice 

 

sure would like to know what the final answer was to the power consumption